Here's the transcript if you wanted a 90's flashback.
Let us meet our panel. This july 23rd through the 25th, she'll be headlining at the "just for laughs" festival in montreal. Our buddy, elayne boosler.
[ Applause ]
hi, bill.
Bill: hey, you?
how you doing?
Bill: how are you?
i'm fine.
[ Applause ]
Bill: his new tour starts on wednesday in albany. His magazine is "adventure outdoors." And he's an nra director, ted nugent is over here.
[ Applause ]
i owe you a gun.
[ Applause ]
Bill: not a problem. All right, he's an author, talk show host and former nixon operative, it's a tough job, but someone's gotta be g. Gordon liddy.
[ Applause ] Gordon, how are you? And this july and august be doing "love l with lydia clark heston at the haymarket theater in london. He's also a scredddddddddd and the president of the nra, charlton heston, ladies and gentlemen. [ cheers and applause ] Mr. Heston, always a pleasure.
good to see you.
Bill: thank you.
how do you do?
Bill: okay.
nice to see you. Thank you.
[ Applause ] [ cheers and applause ] Okay. Well, you'll excuse me for patting some of you down, but this is --
i'm disappointed.
it was great, i liked it.
Bill: i'm sure you did, ted.
ted wanted to bring an ak-47 on out here.
i wanted to give you a gift. Having us on together, i owe you at lst a couple of guns out of this deal.
Bill: i know and that's what i wanted to talk --
bill said he can get 'em anywhere.
Bill: right.
anywhere, on the way in. You bet.
anywhere.
Bill: and that's what we wanna talk about. We wanna talk about guns. No secret there. This is our gun show. But there are other things called gun shows that are much in debate now, because that's where the kids in columbine got their guns, from a gun show. And by the way, it's not really a show, is it? I mean, it's not like annie oakley's there.
we basically just go there -- we only go there to fondle.
Bill: you go there to fondle because you love cold steel. Good.
you wanna go to a gun and knife show, i'll just open my coat. I don't think you haveo, basically --
Bill: but, 80% of americans think we need more gun control.
actually, that's not true. That is not a true statement, with respect.
i've seen the gallup polls, as well. If the question is asked, "do you think there should be more guns on the street," everybody goes no. And they go, "well, they want gun control." Well, that's not the question that the gallup poll and the "time" poll and the "newsweek" poll ask. They ask if you think law-abiding citizens should have access to weapons to d crime. And the answer was yes.
that's correct. By more than 80%
Bill: okay, but certainly, more than ha lots of americans now, in the wake of what happened, think that perhaps the nra is being a little selfish. You would not agree with that? You don't think --
i wouldn't agree with that, no. On the way here today, i was approached by a pilot of the airlines --
Bill: well, if we can't agree on the facts, this is gonna be hard.
but that is the facts. 3,000 nra members in littleton, picketed by 8,000 citizens.
you know, actually, i was there. Excuse me.
i know. You left right after your speech.
that was not true. There were 4,000 members crowding in the hall.
well, you must have also counted the million-man march.
and there were --
and if you need 100 rounds to kill a deer, maybe hunting isn't your sport.
excuse me, ma'am.
[ Applause ]
i use a bow and arrow.
i think what we need here -- i think what we need here --
just to finish that, there were some 200, rather forlorn-looking citizens standing out in the drizzle.
why were they forlorned, because their children were dead?
because there were so few of them.
oh, yeah.
i think what the basic misunderstanding here, and we're talking about gun shows and everything, i mean, i would like to represent, for the moment, a class of people who have not had a voice in this debate. And that is the criminals. I have nine felonies. [ laughter ] My favorite felon -- i have nine felonies. And i've been in the joint the for five years. That's longer than we were in world war ii. And the attitude was this, "i hope they take all them guns away from all them legitimate schmucks, because, god forbid, i should be on a piece of work, and the sucker's got a piece, i could get blown away." The criminals want guns taken away from the honest people. And that is because --
Bill: that's not the issue.
five times -- yes, it is. Five times more --
Bill: it's not the issue that i have been prevented from raising so far.
Bill: at a gun show, it's really not a show. It's some sort of a bizarre, where guns --
it's where they sell things.
Bill: it's where they sell things. A licensed dealer has a day, okay. He has to check out whether you are insane or maybe want to bomb abortion clinics or a war criminal. He's got a day to find that out. The bill that kennedy and the woman -- i forgot her name. Mccarthy. Her husband was killed on the long island railroad. She's a congresswoman.
oh, yes, mccarthy.
Bill: they wanted three days to wait. The fbi says you really need five to check out. But you guys think that there should be one or none. Now, why can't -- why -- it takes a month to get a passport. We need a license to get a car, which is a dangerous --
honest citizens are to have -- right. Why? What's the problem with the waiting?
Bill: what's the hardest problem with just making sure these honest, loyal citizens get the --
what the in world -- that i, as a criminal, wanting to get a gun would go to a gun show and get a traceable gun? I would go to see a friend of mine in brooklyn who i met in the joint and i would get a cold piece like that, and nobody is gonna check anything on it.
bill, i've read the statistics from the fbi uniform crime report and the atf, confidential reports from the atf, when i train with some of these guys. And there have been negligible numbers of weapons ever procured by the criminal in the use of any crimes. The tracing of guns --
the brady bill alone --
guns are everywhere. In the '50s, when you had, what you blamed, the violent movies, people couldn't go out and get a gun and repeat anything. They're everywhere. And everyone can get them.
elayne, when i was growing up --
criminals and honest people.
-- we had unlimited access to unlimited firepower. There was no such word carjacking.
why do you need an ak-47 to defend yourself? Who's breaking into your house?
show me someone who has an ak-47. Where's the ak-47? They're illegal. They're illegal.
[ Applause ] You can't buy them.
automatic weapons, who's leaking in? The king family? Who's coming over?
no, the ones that are in this country have been smuggled in from china.
right, but this is the only product in the country that is unregulated.
Bill: now, you can get a, basically, what is a machine gun.
not really.
oh, come on now, really.
people die from one apple, they ban apples until they invent -- this is the only unregulated consumer product.
a firearm is the most regulated consumer product in the history of this country. The only product that has to be scrutinized every step of the way, before assembly, during assembly and following assembly. [ all talking at once ]
Bill: we're gonna have to take a commercial, because i have to sell other products. But we'll come back.
[ Applause ] *** commercial break ***
announcer: join us tomorrow when our guests will be john taylor, victoria jackson, mimi kennedy and alan keyes.
[ Applause ]
Bill: okay. You were about to say something.
no kidding. There are some 224 million firearms in private hands in this country. That's a figure that is held more or less constant since 1950. During that period, same number of guns, the crime rate has gradually decreased. Surely, that indicates that guns are not the crime.
well, actually, it's the deaths that have decreased from crime because trauma centers are better. But 13 children a day are killed by guns in this country. That's littleton every day. And i think it is extremely selfish of you people, because you like to shoot tin cans in your back yard, to not have any regulation that maybe puts public safety out there a little bit first.
elayne, you're a bright gal, name one that would help.
right, name one.
[ Applause ]
Bill: well, like i was about to say, the brady bill --
you wanna hear my law, thinking i'm such i liberal? My law is if you shoot a gun outside of your house at another person, now, i understand self-defense in your home and if people are coming to your house with guns --
Bill: right.
they come to my house with casseroles. I don't know where you people live, but i think if you -- [ talking at once ] Well, i've just -- i'm answering your question. I think if someone breaks into your house, you shoot to defend. Okay, i think a law should be in this country, you shoot a gun outside of your house into another person, you're shot on the spot. That's it.
i'm with you. I love that! I love that!
[ Applause ]
oh, no, that can't be right. That can't be right. [ cheers and applause ]
that's called murder in the first degree. It's against the law.
Bill: ted --
it's about time. [ talking at once ]
i'm glad i'm here, because the devil couldn't make it tonight.
you've been to my concerts, haven't you? I can tell.
like gordon liddy and i'm going to the joint. I don't believe it. [ laughter ]
Bill: i mean, the bigger question is, i think, the second amendment, which we rely on, our amendments, is not a commandment.
i yield all commandment regulations to --
trust me
Bill: you treat it like it's a commandment. All of you do. And it's amendment. The word amendment itself means things change. Okay?
no, that's not true. The bill of rights is a document unique in the world. No country has anything remotely approaching it. The sole purpose of every one of the 12 articles in the bill of rights is to protect the individual american citizen from intrusion by the federal government. Now -- please charton heston, you arbitrarily use half of the amendment
it is. And i think it's ten.
you arbitrarily use half of the amendment.
yes, of course, but --
the first half, which does not appear in your literature, is --
it's not about the militia, believe me.
it's a well-regulated state militia so the federal government can --
no, no.
first of all -- let's take the first amendment. Let's take the first amendment. [ talking at once ]
Bill: yeah, the first amendment by gun owners seems to be one that's very fluid.
the first amendment says, "congress shall make no law." Now, that is a commandment. And the operative words of the second amendment are, "shall not be infringed." The framework of the constitution --
Bill: but they also --
what that means is there is a god-given existing right for a human being who's free to have a state-of-the-art weapon and the federal government shall not infringe upon it. Then along came the 14th amendment, which says the 5th amendment applies --
Bill: along came -- you cannot revere something like that to that degree that you do, because it does change. Many things in the constitution do not apply.
god-given right.
Bill: if i want to say to you that only the property of white men -- wait a second.
god-given rights don't chan these are not god-given rights. [ talking at once ] If i said to you that only propertied white males -- well, you probab with that, you three. [ laughter ] Only propertied white males can vote, you would disagree with that. But that is in the constitution. It is a living document that does change.
no, no, no.
and you selectively quote half of it. It's a well-regulated militia. That is not what's going on in this country.
no, militia is not what they meant. Every one of the founding fathers, those wise, old, dead white guys that made up the country --
to make sure the federal government could not take over the state.
that's right.
that's right.
and they were also amply on record before and after they passed the second amendment -- jefferson, madison, all of them, saying how firmly they meant that it meant the right of the individual american citizen to keep and bear arms.
but you know what the truth is?
patrick henry said that. Every man shall be armed.
the truth is -- the truth is, it is not about the second amendment. It is about this is the only consumer product in america that has absolutely no regulation, and there's not gonna be an end to --
it is the most regulated product in the --
it is not regulated.
Bill: obviously. That's what they debate it.
any of it is not regulated.
20,000 gun control laws. 20,000.
you know what i think we can all agree upon? Bill, i know you. Elaine, i know you. You made a great statement a moment ago. I think we can all agree -- if you break the law, you're the hell out of my neighborhood. If you shoot somebody illegally and you bring carnage into my neighborhood, we want you either dead or locked up, rotting the rest of your life. Leave the good guys alone.
[ Applause ] Get the bad guys the hell out of here.
Bill: we have to take a commercial because i can't stand this anymore.
[ Applause ] *** commercial break ***
[ Applause ]
Bill: all right. Speaking of amendments, let me return to this forum. Because somehow the second amendment is the sacrosanct commandment. But the first amendment is very, very fluid. I mean, last week --
you wouldn't say that. The first amendment deserves as much --
Bill: it deserves it, but it seems like the same people who think the second commandment is a commandment, think the first amendment is not.
oh, i think so.
Bill: well, henry hyde said we should have a soviet-style censorship about media that i guess he and his mistresses would decide what kids should see.
well, he can kiss my ass. [ laughter ]
Bill: they voted to put the -- they voted to outlaw flag burning. They voted to put the ten commandments up in the school. These are flagrant violations of the first amendment.
they never asked me first on that either.
Bill: what do you think of that? [ laughter ] These are flagrant first amendment violations.
i just want to respond to one point that was made just before we broke.
to hell with your question, bill.
no, no, i will, but --
Bill: because you don't have
i do. But 20,000 laws ag you know guns -- first of all, no one's counted. And second of all, most of them are zoning laws, and they have nothing to do with the safety of this country. And when you see hands in the, guns in the hands of the people that are committing mayhem and 13 children dying a day in schools, something has to change. And you are selfishly against anything infringing -- you are. I'd like to drive 100 miles an hour down the highway, but people would die, so i don't work to change the law.
i want to point out that one of the school shootings --
i do think you're inadequately informed, because i disagree with you.
i disagree, i think you --
well, then don't call us --
let me point out, please, that one of the school shootings thers a teacher who went and got his gun and stopped it.
pearl, mississippi.
why not? There are so many --
the others didn't have them. Probably because there are these rules that say you can't have a gun --
no, he had a gun in the middle --
in israel.
we don't want to live like this.
in israel, the principal's got a gun and selected teachers --
we don't want to live like this. I don't wanna shoot anybody, and i don't wanna have to shoot anybody. [ talking at once ]
if god permits somebody -- just imagine if somebody wanted to rape you.
uh-huh.
would you or would you not shoot them?
i would --
depending on who it was, right?
depending on who it was.
all right.
number one, ha. I would not shoot anyone, ever. I would not shoot somebody.
well, i would.
i'll shoot them for you. [ laughter ]
that's why i -- [ cheers and applause ]
if you're out with me, i would take care of it.
let me speak to this point of kids getting shot. Most of them, in fact, are not kids. They're 14 to 17.
i think 14 is a kid.
no, they're liable under the law. Anyway, that's not the point. There are now some 6,000 examples of kids, not little kids, but 14 to 17, who have been caught carrying firearms on school grounds. That's universally against the law.
but you guys market to children now.
wait, wait, wait.
you've saturated the white, american male market.
may i please finish?
yeah.
thank you. Who is on the lord's side? [ laughter ]
let's get on a roll.
and of those 6,000 cases, in two years, 13 have been brought to trial.
because a lot of them were dead afterwards.
because this --
no, no, no. None of them were dead. None. This is because this administration will not prosecute criminals.
it does prosecute criminals.
no, they will not.
then we read different studies. Because it does prosecute. And i think -- i think people who just --
arresting is different from prosecution, you know.
i think people who join the nra are wonderful people who love freedom as much as we do. And i think what you're doing to them is selling them fear so you can simply sell a product. Saturate the market now to women and children because you've saturated the white, male market.
we don't have any products. We don't sell any products.
not true. The gun industry is what gives the nra its money. They support the foundation. You're just selling something on fear.
Bill: well, you certainly own the congressman --
i am not allowed to possess a firearm because i'm a convicted felon, nine times over.
that's good. [ laughter ]
Bill: quit bragging, gordon. [ laughter ]
[ Applause ]
mrs. Liddy, however, who is not a felon, has a very large collection of firearms.
what does that tell you about your marriage?
and that market is not saturated at all. Well, she keeps some of them over on my side of the bed in case she could use a lesson and some guy comes through, you know.
i don't know where you live that these guys are coming through without a bottle of wine and a pound cake. They're all coming over to kill you.
well, one guy did come on my property with a knife and i took it away from him and broke it.
someone actually came over to your house?
yeah. And then another guy came down toward the property. He was fleeing from a job he did. He had a 9mm with him. When he realized he was approaching my property, he threw away the gun.
where do you live, the wyoming freeway?
and ran out in the river and put his hands up, waiting for the police because he would not step on my property because he knew i'd shoot him right in the head. [ laughter ]
you guys live in an old western. [ laughter ]
Bill: okay. I have to take a commercial here for reasons of insanity.
[ Applause ] *** commercial break ***
[ Applause ]
Bill: all right. I feel like killing something. Let's kill! Tomorrow we're gonna have john taylor, victoria jackson, mimi kennedy and alan keyes. But now killing.
[ Applause ]
