Author Topic: Ohio  (Read 3169 times)

Vet

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Ohio
« on: June 14, 2008, 08:33:28 AM »
Does anyone have any upto date information on the proposed Ohio state wide ban on pitbulls? 

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2008, 03:14:53 PM »

Butterbean

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2008, 01:43:38 PM »
Does anyone have any upto date information on the proposed Ohio state wide ban on pitbulls? 
A friend forwarded this to me for you :)

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=127_HB_568

R

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2008, 02:19:49 PM »
I know this is gonna be unpopular and I know each dog is different and their behavior is more based on how the dog has been handled and raised as far as if it is dangerous.

But I just don't as a whole trust pitbull dogs and don't feel comfortable around them. I'm not fearfull of dogs for the most part but respectfull or large breeds and understand how things can get ugly very fast with dominate, aggressive, powerfull dogs who are allowed to act that way. Who The fu*k wants to be around a dog where you have to so observant and cautious of its behavior to prevent yourself from being bitten in the face?  I never wanna be around dogs that cause me anxiety and I dont feel I can relax cause Im worried about the hair trigger MF dog going off, thats pure BS and the assholes who own them should get fist in thier fuc*ing face.  Why does some prick need an intimidating dog, to make up for thier small dicks?

I know many will argue but the stats on pitbull attacks are way of proportion to other breeds, I'm sorry but argue as much as you want on this but the stats speak for themselves.  Maybe its the type of people who get these dogs for the wrong reasons and have no clue how to raise a healthy, happy, well socialized dog.  Many get these dogs to be threatening to others and encourage aggressive behavior in the dogs.

Or maybe since I would imagine a pitbull would need a very strong, dominate type owner that would be able to exhibit the the proper authority so the dog knows its bounds.  I'm guessing few people have the werewithall for this and grow to almost fear their own dogs, then all control is lost.

I guess there are many well behaved PBs out there and the whole breed should not be punished, but the #'s are just too disproportionate to ignore that there is a problem with this breed or at least the whole PBs in the real world thing taking into account the people who own them and why.

I'm sorry guys but there is a reason for this public outrage and it did not come from nowhere, there have been far too many events that have caused it.  The public did not just look at a PB and say "hey we don't like those dogs"  They have seen what they can do.  I dont know for sure but Im sure most of you have heard of PB maulings of people, sometimes they even kill people or children.  IMO very few other dog breeds will attack a human to that degree, they may bite but very few will tear a human to pieces.

There is a problem with the breed it is very obvious especially when one sees states passing legislation to ban the breed.

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2008, 02:36:14 PM »
I know this is gonna be unpopular and I know each dog is different and their behavior is more based on how the dog has been handled and raised as far as if it is dangerous.

But I just don't as a whole trust pitbull dogs and don't feel comfortable around them. I'm not fearfull of dogs for the most part but respectfull or large breeds and understand how things can get ugly very fast with dominate, aggressive, powerfull dogs who are allowed to act that way. Who The fu*k wants to be around a dog where you have to so observant and cautious of its behavior to prevent yourself from being bitten in the face?  I never wanna be around dogs that cause me anxiety and I dont feel I can relax cause Im worried about the hair trigger MF dog going off, thats pure BS and the assholes who own them should get fist in thier fuc*ing face.  Why does some prick need an intimidating dog, to make up for thier small dicks?

I know many will argue but the stats on pitbull attacks are way of proportion to other breeds, I'm sorry but argue as much as you want on this but the stats speak for themselves.  Maybe its the type of people who get these dogs for the wrong reasons and have no clue how to raise a healthy, happy, well socialized dog.  Many get these dogs to be threatening to others and encourage aggressive behavior in the dogs.

Or maybe since I would imagine a pitbull would need a very strong, dominate type owner that would be able to exhibit the the proper authority so the dog knows its bounds.  I'm guessing few people have the werewithall for this and grow to almost fear their own dogs, then all control is lost.

I guess there are many well behaved PBs out there and the whole breed should not be punished, but the #'s are just too disproportionate to ignore that there is a problem with this breed or at least the whole PBs in the real world thing taking into account the people who own them and why.

I'm sorry guys but there is a reason for this public outrage and it did not come from nowhere, there have been far too many events that have caused it.  The public did not just look at a PB and say "hey we don't like those dogs"  They have seen what they can do.  I dont know for sure but Im sure most of you have heard of PB maulings of people, sometimes they even kill people or children.  IMO very few other dog breeds will attack a human to that degree, they may bite but very few will tear a human to pieces.

There is a problem with the breed it is very obvious especially when one sees states passing legislation to ban the breed.

Check out the book pit bull placebo and you will see the truth about the breed.

 And remember, before blacks and mexicans got ahold of the breed, they were not a problem breed:

"In the decade between 1966-1975, less than 2% of all dogs involved in fatal attacks in the United States were of the breeds which today are targeted so frequently as the solution to canine aggression, (Pit Bull or Rottweiler)."  What happened in 1976- now?  explosion of latin american immigration and the advent of gangsta rap and gang mentality.  Racial truth, not racism.  When you have mexicans who refuse to neuter their dogs because of their machismo  based culture, it only leads to over breeding and bad breeding.

And breed bans in other countries are being overturned as they were shown to have no effect on the numbers of bites and attacks.

The problem is with the people who are irresponsible owners, not the dog/breed itself.  In those countries, the people got the next best "ego dog"  and guess what, they became problem breeds as well.

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2008, 01:27:20 PM »


The problem is with the people who are irresponsible owners, not the dog/breed itself.  In those countries, the people got the next best "ego dog"  and guess what, they became problem breeds as well.

Yup, thats what I see as a problem with this and any other breed related legislature.  We are not solving the problem (by going after the owners) we are merely giving a false sense of security.   Banning one breed or penalizing responsible pet owners (which is what breed bans ultimately do) won't solve the problem, its just going to make worse things happen underground.   

My understanding is if the Ohio bill passes as written, it will effectively give pitbull owners 90 days to either get rid of their dogs or leave the state.   I'm not about to give up my dogs, so that leaves me one of two choices, knowingly break the law and be subjected to fines/imprisonment/whatever, or move.  In our current economic status does that make sense to anyone?   It sure as hell doesn't me. 

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2008, 05:41:05 PM »
Yup, thats what I see as a problem with this and any other breed related legislature.  We are not solving the problem (by going after the owners) we are merely giving a false sense of security.   Banning one breed or penalizing responsible pet owners (which is what breed bans ultimately do) won't solve the problem, its just going to make worse things happen underground.   
My understanding is if the Ohio bill passes as written, it will effectively give pitbull owners 90 days to either get rid of their dogs or leave the state.   I'm not about to give up my dogs, so that leaves me one of two choices, knowingly break the law and be subjected to fines/imprisonment/whatever, or move.  In our current economic status does that make sense to anyone?   It sure as hell doesn't me. 

Do you have any suggestions or ideas to solve the problem?  Would it be hard to determine the problem owners or dogs?  Maybe all pitbulls should be required to be subjected to an aggression test?

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2008, 07:28:20 AM »
Do you have any suggestions or ideas to solve the problem?  Would it be hard to determine the problem owners or dogs?  Maybe all pitbulls should be required to be subjected to an aggression test?

I honestly dont' think there is a simple solution because people get so fucking stupid about pet ownership.  Their dog never does anything wrong.  Their dog is always well behaved, their dog would never do that because their dog is well trained (even though the only person "training" the dog is the one who is bullshitting you about its behavior)  Think of all of the people who act that way. 

The first step is to get fucking city councils to listen to what is being told to them and not just act on impulse.  I've seen it too often with dealing with exotic animals and pitbulls.  You elect a bunch of idiots for your city council and you are going to see stupid municipal laws. Once the law is on the books, it practically takes an act of God to change it.  I've personally spent days working with a group from the city rewriting/editing/making suggestions on animal control laws for towns only to have everysingle thing we wrote, we said, we tried to impress upon the city council simply thrown by the wayside because of some loudmouthed fat woman in the group who didn't know a dog from her asshole.  That is a HUGE problem that needs to be fixed, but probably isn't going to be. 

I dont' have a problem with mandatory spay/neuter laws for certian breeds or increased licensure fees or special licenses and if push came to shove, I would agree to mandatory muzzle laws (if it was fairly enforced) for certian breeds.  By fair enforcement, this means landshark daschunds and little fluffy dogs are equally penalized after biting people.  Too often that simply doesn't happen.  Society jumps all over pitbull news stories and leave dachshund bites by the wayside.  Get the media to back off and quit sensationalizing and you'll solve part of the problem. 

Determining problem owners becomes more of a social problem than anything else.  You have to change societies mentality of a dog being a status symbol----think of the guys bragging about their dog that is 'the toughtest" the "fastest", the meanest, the strongest, the wolf hybrid, whatever.  Its going to be much harder to change that mentality than anything, but if you can, then you won't see "breed" problems.  This is also the root of why I think banning a breed flat out won't work.  There are dog breeds out there much more human aggressive than a pit bull.  If pits are eliminated, then you will see those breeds start to show up.  Take some of the russian breeds that are aggressive as hell and put them in the hands of an idiot street punk and you've got something way worse than what things are now.

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2008, 09:15:20 AM »
Is it really that big of a concern. I read that this ban wouldnt even make it past introduction. I am also located in ohio and a pitbull owner.

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2008, 09:22:25 AM »
http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=127_HB_568

Here is the most up to date version of the bill.

Vet

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2008, 12:30:13 PM »
Is it really that big of a concern. I read that this ban wouldnt even make it past introduction. I am also located in ohio and a pitbull owner.

yeah, its a HUGE deal if you ask me. 

Quote
Sec. 955.111.  (A) Beginning ninety days after the effective date of this section, no person shall own, keep, or harbor a dog that belongs to a breed that is commonly known as a pit bull dog.
(B) Not later than ninety days after the effective date of this section, a person who owns, keeps, or harbors a pit bull dog on the effective date of this section shall surrender the dog to the dog warden. Not later than ten days after receiving the dog, the dog warden shall euthanize the dog.
(C)(1) Beginning ninety days after the effective date of this section, if an officer has probable cause to believe that a dog is a pit bull dog, the officer may apply to a court of competent jurisdiction for a search warrant. The court shall issue a search warrant for the purposes requested if there is probable cause to believe that a dog is a pit bull dog.
(2) After obtaining a search warrant, an officer shall seize the pit bull dog and surrender the dog to the dog warden. Not later than ten days after receiving the dog, the dog warden shall euthanize the dog.


This revision gives them any and all authority to search and seize any dog that is "Believed to be a pitbull".  This means not just pits, but boxers, mastiffs, basically anything any schmuck off the street things looks like a pitbull---which in and of itself is a poorly defined "breed" based on legal standards.

Second, its a STATEWIDE ban.  This means you can't just move up the street, its anywhere in Ohio. 


If I was still living there, I'd be fighting this tooth and nail.  I wouldn't just trust the stupidity of legislatures to keep my dogs safe.   

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2008, 01:21:46 PM »
Agreed.  What is there to do to change this, sending a letter to a state representative? I understand you would fight tooth and nail about this but I dont have any faith in the voice of the people affecting these turds either.

http://www.local12.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=925cc1fb-8156-4948-858b-8ee4fb4738f7

Here is another interesting bit of news. Hopefully this might give you bit more comfort knowing this loon is working with a practicing vet.  Hard to tell. 

Vet

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2008, 01:41:43 PM »
Agreed.  What is there to do to change this, sending a letter to a state representative? I understand you would fight tooth and nail about this but I dont have any faith in the voice of the people affecting these turds either.

http://www.local12.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=925cc1fb-8156-4948-858b-8ee4fb4738f7

Here is another interesting bit of news. Hopefully this might give you bit more comfort knowing this loon is working with a practicing vet.  Hard to tell. 

It'd make me feel better if I knew Webster personally. 

BigNBloated

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2008, 06:14:09 PM »
It'd make me feel better if I knew Webster personally. 

Understandable.

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2008, 07:06:57 PM »
I honestly don't' think there is a simple solution because people get so fucking stupid about pet ownership.  Their dog never does anything wrong.  Their dog is always well behaved, their dog would never do that because their dog is well trained (even though the only person "training" the dog is the one who is bullshitting you about its behavior)  Think of all of the people who act that way. 

The first step is to get fucking city councils to listen to what is being told to them and not just act on impulse.  I've seen it too often with dealing with exotic animals and pitbulls.  You elect a bunch of idiots for your city council and you are going to see stupid municipal laws. Once the law is on the books, it practically takes an act of God to change it.  I've personally spent days working with a group from the city rewriting/editing/making suggestions on animal control laws for towns only to have everysingle thing we wrote, we said, we tried to impress upon the city council simply thrown by the wayside because of some loudmouthed fat woman in the group who didn't know a dog from her asshole.  That is a HUGE problem that needs to be fixed, but probably isn't going to be. 

I don't' have a problem with mandatory spay/neuter laws for certian breeds or increased licensure fees or special licenses and if push came to shove, I would agree to mandatory muzzle laws (if it was fairly enforced) for certian breeds.  By fair enforcement, this means landshark daschunds and little fluffy dogs are equally penalized after biting people.  Too often that simply doesn't happen.  Society jumps all over pitbull news stories and leave dachshund bites by the wayside.  Get the media to back off and quit sensationalizing and you'll solve part of the problem. 

Determining problem owners becomes more of a social problem than anything else.  You have to change societies mentality of a dog being a status symbol----think of the guys bragging about their dog that is 'the toughtest" the "fastest", the meanest, the strongest, the wolf hybrid, whatever.  Its going to be much harder to change that mentality than anything, but if you can, then you won't see "breed" problems.  This is also the root of why I think banning a breed flat out won't work.  There are dog breeds out there much more human aggressive than a pit bull.  If pits are eliminated, then you will see those breeds start to show up.  Take some of the russian breeds that are aggressive as hell and put them in the hands of an idiot street punk and you've got something way worse than what things are now.

Yeah I agree with what you wrote and think about it vet.  It is a mess because basically you are right, people are jack asses.  I don't think a ban as written is the answer either, so hard to change peoples behavior and preceptions.  I think a group of knowledgeable people like the group you described would be the best people to write the animal control laws.

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2008, 06:10:22 PM »
At some point, as un-PC as it may be, the battle over pit bulls is going to have to ackknowledge race and culture playing a huge factor is the temperment of dogs.  Due to machismo based cultures, that value tough dogs, chained up, gaurding their poverty we have situations like this (yesterday in texas):


NORTH OF WESLACO -- A 5-year-old boy was mauled to death by a pit bull here Wednesday evening, said Hidalgo County Sheriff Lupe Treviño.

The incident occurred about 8 p.m. at a home on North Beto Garcia Road, just north of the intersection of Mile 12 1/2 North and Farm-to-Market Road 88.

Deputies arrived at the scene to find the child's aunt holding his lifeless body in her arms and the dog still in the front yard. The dog fled after a deputy shot and wounded it, and authorities were still trying to subdue the animal late Wednesday.

Hidalgo County Justice of the Peace Rosa Treviño pronounced the boy dead at the scene shortly after 9 p.m. She said the condition of the child's body suggested there was no way emergency responders could have saved the boy's life.

Sheriff's deputies were still at the scene investigating late Wednesday, trying to determine if negligence was a factor in the incident. The sheriff declined to speculate on whether any criminal charges would be filed, noting deputies must determine whether the dog had been confined and how the boy came into contact with the animal.

Neighbors told deputies the dog was always chained up, an assertion supported by local activist Beto Garcia - namesake of the road where the mauling occurred. However, one witness told The Monitor the animal was not restrained just before the incident.

Sheriff Treviño declined to identify the boy pending notification of his mother, who lives and works in the state of Washington. The boy's father resides in Mexico.

The sheriff said the boy, whom neighbors identified as Pablo Hernandez, had been living with his aunt and uncle after Child Protective Services placed him with them.

The circumstances of that placement were not immediately known, but the sheriff said his office had no record of being called out to the house before.

Luis Palomo, 20, said he was about four houses down the street playing football with his friends when the trouble began. The boy was at home with a babysitter when a pit bull at the house began running around the front yard in an excited manner, getting a second pit bull inside the home riled up.

The babysitter and boy were inside the house with the second dog and were clearly fearful, Palomo said. He went over to help them and managed to distract the dogs temporarily, but the boy wandered out the back door. One of the dogs grabbed him by the torso and dragged him.

Palomo recalled hearing about 20 seconds of screaming, and then nothing. He said the dog locked its jaws around the boy's neck, quickly killing him.

"These types of accidents can be prevented," Justice of the Peace Treviño said, cautioning the public about owning pit bulls.

"No one needs to keep these types of dogs," she said. "These dogs turn on you."


Now, honestly, look at this story for what it is.  Impoverished mexicans, chained up dog, no socialization (and probably no idea what "socialization" is) and children running around.  It does not matter what breed the dog is, but being as how they are mexicans, they of course have a pit.  This is a recipe for disaster with any dog.  Their culture plays a big factor is this though, it is unmasculine to fix or neuter their dogs, it is cultural to have gaurd dogs, a tough looking one at that.  I live in a rich, white, east bay neighborhood of the san francisco east bay.  There are pit bull owners every where.  Any chained up in yards? no.  Any used as gaurd dogs? no.  Any incidents? No.  Any mexicans living in the area? no.  In my neighborhood i see rotts, germans, dobbermans, mastiffs, akitas, pits, labs, goldens, beagles, standard poodles, greyhounds, bulldogs... you name it, its here.  Its a 99% white town, maybe a few indian or asian families, but affluent as well.  These dogs are all treated as companions. They are walked consistently, fed well, trained well, socialized... everything that equates to a good dog.  Are their some owners that piss me off? sure, like everytown, there are people who just think leash laws, or picking up shit off the street aren't their thing, but their dogs are well taken care of regardless.  I repeat though, no incidents.  These are not ego dogs, they are companion dogs.  If you look at many (US) dog attacks you will often find they happen in minority dense areas. This is no coincidence.  Different cultures put a different emphasis on the role of a dog.  White (american) culture values companionship whereas other cultures value other aspects of dog ownership, it is undeniable.

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2008, 06:58:02 PM »
From http://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/canineaggression.asp :

FATAL DOG ATTACKS: THE TRUTH BEHIND THE TRAGEDY
   IT’S THE OWNER, NOT THE DOG 
A National Canine Research Council Year-End Report: 2007 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Extensive research and investigation using 40 years of data has conclusively identified the reckless and criminal ownership practices that can cause a dog to become dangerous:

 

OWNER MANAGEMENT & CONTROL OF DOGS

Owners failing to humanely contain, control and maintain their dogs (chained dogs, loose roaming dogs, cases of abuse/neglect), and owners failing to properly supervise interaction between children and dogs.

 

FUNCTION OF DOG

Owners maintaining dogs for guarding/protection, fighting, intimidation/status, or as yard dogs. Such dogs are resident dogs, not family pets.

 

REPRODUCTION STATUS OF DOG

Owners failing to spay or neuter animals not used for competition, show, or in a responsible breeding program.

 

91% of all fatal dog attacks from 2005-2007 were due to one or more of these critical factors.

 

 Tabulations of fatal dog attacks by breed yield no understanding of human/canine interaction and offer no remedies to enhance community safety. Forty years ago, Pit bulls and Rottweilers combined were involved in less than 2% of all fatal attacks.* Nevertheless, one or more of these same critical factors was evident in 90% of all fatal dog attacks during that time.

 

From 2005-2007, increased focus on the negligent and criminal human behaviors has resulted in 31% of owners and/or parents of young victims being criminally charged.

 

HOLDING OWNERS ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE HUMANE TREATMENT, CONTAINMENT, AND CONTROL OF THEIR DOGS IS THE ONLY WAY TO MINIMIZE INCIDENCE OF CANINE AGGRESION.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Behind the Statistics:  The True Tragedy

 

Statistical numbers and general analysis of fatal dog attack cases often fail to convey the true degree of negligence and the terribly tragic circumstances experienced by both the victim and the dog. Statistics often present an impersonal and detached examination of traumatic events. 

 

The case below occurred in 2007 and is cited to convey, on a personal and emotional level,  the preventable tragedy found in the overwhelming majority of cases of fatal dog attacks, both past and present. In this classic example it is very clear how negligent and abusive owner behavior resulted in dire circumstances for both the child and the dog. 



THE BOY AND THE DOG: A NEW YORK TRAGEDY

 

The Boy:

A two-year old boy is bitten in the throat by his father's "guard" dog.
The father faults his two-year-old son for crawling too close to the dog's food bowl.
Two months later, the boy's visiting grandmother is attacked and bitten by the same dog. She requires treatment at the local hospital.
The father is charged with owning a dangerous dog and owning an unlicensed dog.
Child Protective Services monitors the father, child and home to ensure that his son is not exposed to the dog, which is still on the premises.
Three months later, the boy is found, alone and unsupervised, in the backyard, crawling in high grass near the shore of a lake.  His father says he is unconcerned, as the lake is “not very deep.”
During the months following the guard dog is seen chained outside, but then disappears.
Three years later, the father obtains new “family dog.

The Dog:

At five-weeks of age, the tan, male pup is sold to a man - call him Owner # 2 - for $100.00
One month later, Owner # 2 complains the 10-week-old puppy is "hard to house train" and gives the dog to a new owner, Owner # 3.
Owner # 3 locks the dog in the basement and "forgets" to feed him.
After a couple of months, the dog is given to Owner # 4, who feels sorry that the dog has been locked in the basement without food.
Owner # 4 only keeps the dog for a couple of months before giving the dog to Owner # 5.  Owner # 4 explains that she is moving, and cannot be bothered to take the dog with her.
Owner # 5, the father in question, chains the dog to a large scrap metal heap.

Boy Meets Dog:

Owner # 5 has had the dog for less than a week when he allows his son to go out and feed the dog, which is still chained to the pile of scrap metal. Fifteen minutes later, the boy is found dead, lying amid the junk, entangled in the dog’s chain.  The food bowl is found upside down and empty.

 

Two days later, Owner # 5 has the dog killed. He later pleads guilty to misdemeanor endangering the welfare of a child and is sentenced to one year conditional discharge – he is already on probation for another offense –  and is prohibited from owning a dog for a year.

 

The news stories about this tragedy all described the dog as the “family dog.”


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



 What About Breed?

 

The fundamental flaw found when using breed and/or statistics to define canine behavior is that it gives no recognition to natural canine behaviors and ignores dangerous ownership practices. Or, in other words, the behaviors which directly played a role in an individual case of fatal canine aggression are ignored, while breed history, image and statistics are discussed.


Recently, some organizations and politicians are now found keeping "track" of Pit bull related fatalities as found reported in the media. These running logs or tabulations on the breeds involved in attacks are then used as evidence of "breed aggression".

The most obvious flaw with this "method" of addressing canine aggression is that these individuals / organizations have predetermined aggression to be the result of breed. When evidence is found (i.e., a dog involved in an attack and identified in the media to be a "Pit bull") that supports their predetermined belief, no future investigation is done on these incidents.

This approach at addressing canine aggression can be dangerous, because it either ignores or refuses to acknowledge the very real canine and human behaviors that have played a direct role in cases of canine aggression and teaches us nothing about the prevention of dog attacks.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* In the decade between 1966-1975, less than 2% of all dogs involved in fatal attacks in the United States were of the breeds which today are targeted so frequently as the solution to canine aggression, (Pit Bull or Rottweiler).

Vet

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2008, 10:50:44 PM »
At some point, as un-PC as it may be, the battle over pit bulls is going to have to ackknowledge race and culture playing a huge factor is the temperment of dogs.  Due to machismo based cultures, that value tough dogs, chained up, gaurding their poverty we have situations like this (yesterday in texas):


NORTH OF WESLACO -- A 5-year-old boy was mauled to death by a pit bull here Wednesday evening, said Hidalgo County Sheriff Lupe Treviño.

The incident occurred about 8 p.m. at a home on North Beto Garcia Road, just north of the intersection of Mile 12 1/2 North and Farm-to-Market Road 88.

Deputies arrived at the scene to find the child's aunt holding his lifeless body in her arms and the dog still in the front yard. The dog fled after a deputy shot and wounded it, and authorities were still trying to subdue the animal late Wednesday.

Hidalgo County Justice of the Peace Rosa Treviño pronounced the boy dead at the scene shortly after 9 p.m. She said the condition of the child's body suggested there was no way emergency responders could have saved the boy's life.

Sheriff's deputies were still at the scene investigating late Wednesday, trying to determine if negligence was a factor in the incident. The sheriff declined to speculate on whether any criminal charges would be filed, noting deputies must determine whether the dog had been confined and how the boy came into contact with the animal.

Neighbors told deputies the dog was always chained up, an assertion supported by local activist Beto Garcia - namesake of the road where the mauling occurred. However, one witness told The Monitor the animal was not restrained just before the incident.

Sheriff Treviño declined to identify the boy pending notification of his mother, who lives and works in the state of Washington. The boy's father resides in Mexico.

The sheriff said the boy, whom neighbors identified as Pablo Hernandez, had been living with his aunt and uncle after Child Protective Services placed him with them.

The circumstances of that placement were not immediately known, but the sheriff said his office had no record of being called out to the house before.

Luis Palomo, 20, said he was about four houses down the street playing football with his friends when the trouble began. The boy was at home with a babysitter when a pit bull at the house began running around the front yard in an excited manner, getting a second pit bull inside the home riled up.

The babysitter and boy were inside the house with the second dog and were clearly fearful, Palomo said. He went over to help them and managed to distract the dogs temporarily, but the boy wandered out the back door. One of the dogs grabbed him by the torso and dragged him.

Palomo recalled hearing about 20 seconds of screaming, and then nothing. He said the dog locked its jaws around the boy's neck, quickly killing him.

"These types of accidents can be prevented," Justice of the Peace Treviño said, cautioning the public about owning pit bulls.

"No one needs to keep these types of dogs," she said. "These dogs turn on you."


Now, honestly, look at this story for what it is.  Impoverished mexicans, chained up dog, no socialization (and probably no idea what "socialization" is) and children running around.  It does not matter what breed the dog is, but being as how they are mexicans, they of course have a pit.  This is a recipe for disaster with any dog.  Their culture plays a big factor is this though, it is unmasculine to fix or neuter their dogs, it is cultural to have gaurd dogs, a tough looking one at that.  I live in a rich, white, east bay neighborhood of the san francisco east bay.  There are pit bull owners every where.  Any chained up in yards? no.  Any used as gaurd dogs? no.  Any incidents? No.  Any mexicans living in the area? no.  In my neighborhood i see rotts, germans, dobbermans, mastiffs, akitas, pits, labs, goldens, beagles, standard poodles, greyhounds, bulldogs... you name it, its here.  Its a 99% white town, maybe a few indian or asian families, but affluent as well.  These dogs are all treated as companions. They are walked consistently, fed well, trained well, socialized... everything that equates to a good dog.  Are their some owners that piss me off? sure, like everytown, there are people who just think leash laws, or picking up shit off the street aren't their thing, but their dogs are well taken care of regardless.  I repeat though, no incidents.  These are not ego dogs, they are companion dogs.  If you look at many (US) dog attacks you will often find they happen in minority dense areas. This is no coincidence.  Different cultures put a different emphasis on the role of a dog.  White (american) culture values companionship whereas other cultures value other aspects of dog ownership, it is undeniable.


I'm not aware if anyone has specifically looked at race or culture or socioeconomic status and its association with dog attacks.  I will say on the surface there does seem to be a correlation, however, I don't think its a given and the common underlying factor remains the owner, not what their heritage or their economic status is. 

Two examples:  When I was an intern at Ohio State, I euthanized what I consider to be one of the most viscious American Bulldogs I think I've ever met.  This dog was owned by a white divorced woman and her teenage son.  She was a human physician, making well over 100K per year. In my opinion, this dog flat out should never have been part of this household.  The mom I think had the best of intentions---to a degree, but she also was very, very stubborn with a very dominant dog.  She then allowed the dog to run rampant with little socialization and training.  The dog did go through a puppy class with the teenage son, however, when the recommendations was made by the trainer to consider neutering the dog and to put it through a much more intensive puppy class because of his behavior, the owner protested basically saying that they Loved the dog.    The dog bit two people on different occasions then it chased a group of the owners son's friends out of the house over the fence.   This scared the owner.   This dog came in with a heavyweight metal mesh muzzle on.  Had it not had that, it would have hurt us when we sedated it.   I have no doubt about it.  I also am firmly convinced that in a different household, one that would work with this dogs dominance issues, it may have made a family pet.  The dog never showed aggression to the owner or her son, so I think there was some hope.... just not with them


Another example, which is more of a broad one:  I worked vaccine clinics all over metropolitan NYC when I was doing my residency as a means of making extra money.  During that time I encountered several black, Mexican, Puerto Rican and Dominican pitbull, rottweiler, mastiff and other "Macho breed" owners.  They specifically came to these clinics because they were low cost.  Some of the dogs were flat out assholes, but I can think of a dozen different pitbulls off the top of my head I consider to be great family dogs.  The owners didn't have a lot of money, but they spent the time they needed to with their dogs and you could tell it.  One in particular was a large rednosed male owned by a Peurto Rican man out in long island.  We were working a clinic out there when this other hispanic man unloaded this big (100+ lb longhaired, long legged I have no clue what breed) red mutt.  The red mutt saw the intact male pitbull and lunged forward, breaking its leash.  The dog then literally ran across a parking lot at the pitbull and its owner.  The pit owner saw the dog coming and managed to twist his dog around and deviate him away from the charging red dog basically using his body to block that dog and knock it out of the way.  We were then able to get control of the loose dog (it was a mean asshole dog) and get it away from the pit.  The pitbull was perfect, sitting quietly while we vaccinated it, drew blood, got a fecal sample and did what needed to be done....after all of that excitement and after nearly being attacked.  My point is this owner did was was necessary to socialize his dog, he anticipated a problem, and did what was necessary to avoid problems with his dogs---because in his own words, "the last thing you need is your pitbull biting someone, I love my dog".   


In my mind the bottom line is the owners, no matter what race, education, social or economic status.  its the owners that fuck these dogs up.   

Butterbean

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Re: Ohio
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2008, 06:22:22 AM »
My friend says:

They can use this link to oppose the ban by sending an email very easy.

   http://capwiz.com/naiatrust/issues/?style=D&


 :)
R