McCain is Right..........The Surge is Working !

[Neurotoxin]

June 17, 2008    
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- In one of the deadliest attacks in Baghdad in months, at least 51 Iraqis were killed and 75 were wounded Tuesday in a car bombing, an Iraqi Interior Ministry official said.

[headhuntersix]

This is their last gasp...they have to try and disrupt the SOI or they will have lost everything. They have been pushed from one area to the next. Al Sadr got frog stomped in Basra, after the media frenzy the week prior. The less joes coming home in bags the better..its neen pretty quiet. We have a big seminar with the guys currently running MNDB/MNCI...I should have a better handel on whats currently happening right now, next week. I'll post what I can.

[a_joker10]

Deaths are down.
It may not be perfect but Iraqi casualties are there lowest in over 2 years.

CASUALTIES:

_Confirmed U.S. military deaths as of May 2008: at least 4,085.

_Confirmed U.S. military wounded (hostile) as of May 30, 2008: 30,143.

_Confirmed U.S. military wounded (non-hostile, using medical air transport) as of May 3, 2008: 32,248

_U.S. military deaths for May 2008: 19.

_Deaths of civilian employees of U.S. government contractors as of March 31, 2008, the most recent figure available: 1,181.

_Iraqi deaths in May from war-related violence:

The Iraqi civilian casualty count so far for the month of May is at its lowest level since December 2005. According to Associated Press reporting through May 30, at least 528 Iraqis (excluding insurgents) have been killed in war-related violence. This is an average of 17 deaths per day, and is less than half of the 1,080 reported killed during April.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hYGX5eW9D0fsF_dr-CFT5nEG0d7wD9121ILO0

Also more people have water and sewer service and power generation.


ELECTRICITY:

_Prewar nationwide: 3,958 megawatts. Hours per day (estimated): 4-8.

_May 26, 2008 nationwide: 4,110 megawatts. Hours per day: 9.9.

_Prewar Baghdad: 2,500 megawatts. Hours per day (estimated): 16-24.

_May 26, 2008 Baghdad: Megawatts not available. Hours per day: 7.3.

_Note: Current Baghdad megawatt figures are no longer reported by the U.S. State Department's Iraq Weekly Status Report.

TELEPHONES:

_Prewar land lines: 833,000.

_April 4, 2008: 1,360,000.

_Prewar cell phones: 80,000.

_April 30, 2008: More than 12 million.

WATER:

_Prewar: 12.9 million people had potable water.

_April 30, 2008: 20.9 million people have potable water.

SEWERAGE:

_Prewar: 6.2 million people served.

_April 30, 2008: 11.3 million people served.

(Note: The number for sewerage has not changed in the newest SIGIR report.)

[headhuntersix]

Dude they're getting rolled up...if u can show me hard evidence that we're not rolling them up then by all means share it. I would imagine u'd be rooting for ur guys to win, regardless of how u feel about the war.

[ToxicAvenger]

if the above is what the repbs call a suckcess i shudder to contemplate their version of faliure..

[headhuntersix]

Since it all appears to be trending higher then prewar stats I'd say that its a success....

[ToxicAvenger]

Since it all appears to be trending higher then prewar stats I'd say that its a success....

Confirmed U.S. military deaths as of May 2008: at least 4,085.

really prewar there were that many children..errr soldiers dead?

the war ws a faliure when that # went that high..all your insisting and pranting wont bring the dead back...

death like diamonds just keeps on giving..a lifetime fo pain for the dead childrens loved ones

you celebrate your success ...that innocent kids paid for with their life 

[240 is Back]

This is their last gasp...

i dont want to doubt you.  but...

Iraq insurgency in 'last throes,' Cheney says - May 31, 2005

[headhuntersix]

yeah except there was no tangible evidence.....

[headhuntersix]

In The Christian Science Monitor, Robert Dujarric and Andy Zelleke declare that there is nothing left to be won in Iraq.

Senator McCain has yet to give the American people clear answers to three fundamental questions: What, exactly, are the political objectives of keeping large numbers of American soldiers in Iraq for years to come? What plausible outcome would benefit the United States enough to justify the wrenching costs of achieving those objectives? And what, concretely, is the strategy for getting there?

Michael Totten responds mostly in terms of what can be prevented:

Even if an unambiguous victory is impossible in the short or medium term for the United States and the elected government of Iraq, a victory of any kind for Al Qaeda in Iraq or Moqtada al Sadr’s radical Mahdi Army militia is likewise impossible while American forces remain on the ground and in the way.

As Totten says of himself, I am also not affiliated with the McCain campaign, and in fact am a Southern Democrat by political leaning.  I agree with Mr. Totten that we all ought to respond to this question.

So I'll point to three things, each of which individually justifies the cost in my opinion.

1)  The development of an allied state in Arabia with an army (ISF) that is trained and experienced in counterinsurgency (COIN), and also in combined operations with Coalition nations.  There is no doubt that the Muslim world, and probably the Arabian world, will see additional insurgencies in coming decades.  Terrorists and other bad actors benefit from destabilizing nations and regions, and making havens from the chaos. 

Our best efforts are "Foreign Internal Defense" (FID) missions that build up these chaotic regions, stabilizing them and bringing them into the global community.  COIN operations are a subset of such missions.  A crucial part of COIN is cultural knowledge; another is language capacity.  The ISF, and an allied Iraq, will add a crucial capacity to future efforts by the free peoples of the world.

Developing Iraq and its forces into an ally has the potential of stabilizing regions where the poor are kept in poverty and denied good governance by terrorists and extremists.  It may help to avert future wars, each of which could be as expensive as Iraq has been.  This alone will justify the expense.

2)  There are benefits to the world economy from tying a stabilized Iraq into the global system.  This is not limited to oil.  The Mesopotamia region is historically fertile, and with proper capitalization could become another major source of food for the world's population.

We are in an era in which biofuels and growing populations in Asia are driving up food prices.  An additional large-scale supply of food would have a tremendously beneficial effect in terms of keeping the world's poorest from starvation.  Millions of lives may be affected across the globe by the very sort of projects the US military is currently funding with CERP grants, and the US State Department through its Provincial Reconstruction Teams. 

Whether developing agricultural coops and unions, or providing fertilizer, or helping reinvigorate tractor factories like the one in the Iskandariyah Industrial Complex, we are helping the people of Iraq to capitalize their agriculture.  In that way, we are also helping the people of the world -- especially the poorest people -- in a time of rising food prices.  This moral good alone justifies the cost of finishing what we have begun.

3)  In addition to that moral good, there is a practical good as well.  How much wealth has been generated by bringing Japan into the global economic system, and in a way that prevents that wealth from being siphoned off into warfighting?  How much in Germany?  In South Korea?

There will be a tremendous economic boon from a stabilized Iraq.  This is a tide that will raise all boats -- chiefly Iraqi boats, but foreign investors as well.  We are starting to see such investment.  If it's a subject that interests you, the most complete investigation of the topic in the open sources comes from a milblogger:  FbL of the Castle, who interviewed Ambassador Ries at length on investment and Iraq.

There is no doubt that the potential economic boon to the world economy will, over time, repay the cost of the war, by creating new wealth that does not now exist.  I have every reason to believe that the potential boon will more than offset the cost of the war:  in every other case where we have brought a nation out of poverty and into the global economy, it always has.  This war has been expensive, certainly, but compared to WWII?  Again, consider Japan.

In all of this, I'm joining Totten's concession-for-the-sake-of-argument that Iraq doesn't become "a city on a hill."  Yet I believe that it will.  In addition to the justifications above, there is the work the US military is doing to develop schools and education for Iraq's boys and girls.  There is every reason to believe that, as we open the world of the internet to them, over time they will develop a society far different from, and better than, any their parents knew.

That hope lives in the Iraqis I met over there, and many others besides.  I believe it also justifies the costs, both what we have spent and what remains to be spent to finish what we have begun

[240 is Back]

In The Christian Science Monitor, Robert Dujarric and Andy Zelleke declare that there is nothing left to be won in Iraq.

Correct.  bush will spend $3 bil per month until october (keep the companies happy), then declare a win, scale back afghanistan, and produce osama, right before election time.

watch and see...

[JOHN MATRIX]

This is their last gasp...they have to try and disrupt the SOI or they will have lost everything. They have been pushed from one area to the next. Al Sadr got frog stomped in Basra, after the media frenzy the week prior. The less joes coming home in bags the better..its neen pretty quiet. We have a big seminar with the guys currently running MNDB/MNCI...I should have a better handel on whats currently happening right now, next week. I'll post what I can.

BA-HA-HA-HA, THEY HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS SINCE 2 WEEKS INTO THE 'CAMPAIGN' BAHAHAHAHAHA

[Fury]

BA-HA-HA-HA, THEY HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS SINCE 2 WEEKS INTO THE 'CAMPAIGN' BAHAHAHAHAHA

The statistics support it.

[headhuntersix]

BA-HA-HA-HA, THEY HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS SINCE 2 WEEKS INTO THE 'CAMPAIGN' BAHAHAHAHAHA

Well I guess when u were there during the push u saw how things were going..or maybe u were there in 2006 or wait..oh yeah........zerooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooo credibilty.  The facts show we're winning..the facts show that deaths are down.....the facts show the surge worked...but in ur vast clauswitzian military opinion I guess we're losing....

[JOHN MATRIX]

so its their last gasp really? well there it is world, in about a week or two we can expect the end of all fighting and violence in iraq 

[headhuntersix]

We've been rolling them up for the better part of a year.....i'm sure they will continue to try to conduct spectacular attacks. But i really can't have this debate with u because u are honestly  way out of ur depth.

[Hugo Chavez]

This is their last gasp...they have to try and disrupt the SOI or they will have lost everything. They have been pushed from one area to the next. Al Sadr got frog stomped in Basra, after the media frenzy the week prior. The less joes coming home in bags the better..its neen pretty quiet. We have a big seminar with the guys currently running MNDB/MNCI...I should have a better handel on whats currently happening right now, next week. I'll post what I can.

oh shut the fuck up   Do you fucking know how many times we've heard "this is their last gasp"  You fracking lost the right to say that shit a long time ago.

[Hugo Chavez]

what's probably going to happen:  Attacks are going to go up as the election gets close.  Intel will be released showing it's all Iran trying to influence the election.  The Order will be given   Let's not forget we've already been busted FAKING weapons originating in Iran.  Yes, lets not forget about the bombs they showed us all printed with Made in Iran that later turned out to be pure BS, just like I said it was when it happened.  Fuckers are so predictable.

[Hugo Chavez]

I fucking wonder, would we be on our last gasp after 5 years under foreign occupation   I wonder, would the countless thousands who spent months on end being humilated in detention stop fighting?

get a goddamned brain.

[Bindare_Dundat]

Iraqi traffic gets a little backed up around rush hour, just like old times.



What are they complaining about? Stores still have chips and pop for fucks sake.



I can't tell the difference between this and our local Costco, can you?



Hey, at least Dad won't make him wash the car anymore.

[Hugo Chavez]

are these scenes from today?

[Bindare_Dundat]

are these scenes from today?

Not from today but I posted them anyway. I get the sense some people on the board forget what life is like in areas over there and that these people can go and shop and live like we do over here, even in a time of war. Obviously, things are still far from "normal".

[CQ]

if the above is what the repbs call a suckcess i shudder to contemplate their version of faliure..

To say the least....

[Fury]

what's probably going to happen:  Attacks are going to go up as the election gets close.  Intel will be released showing it's all Iran trying to influence the election.  The Order will be given   Let's not forget we've already been busted FAKING weapons originating in Iran.  Yes, lets not forget about the bombs they showed us all printed with Made in Iran that later turned out to be pure BS, just like I said it was when it happened.  Fuckers are so predictable.

When have we been busted faking weapons of Iranian origination? I'd like to see a report of this. I'm sure they Iranians aren't sending any weapons in. 

They've even picked up QUDS guys in Iraq. I'm sure they weren't there for vacation, either.

Everything's a conspiracy on this board.

[240 is Back]

When have we been busted faking weapons of Iranian origination? I'd like to see a report of this. I'm sure they Iranians aren't sending any weapons in. 

We can show you the NBC report, it's been a tread here about a week ago.
20k weapons reviewed, not a single weapons with proven ties.

Would be easier if you'd simply post evidence that the weapons are 100% certified iranain.  Go for it.