Author Topic: Mike Tyson at his peak Vs Ali at his (Read 32923 times)

MoralMan · « **Reply #125 on:** June 29, 2008, 03:46:05 AM »

Hey i do agree with you on something!!!
"I want your heart i wanna eat his children praise be to Allah!"

Fatpanda · « **Reply #126 on:** June 29, 2008, 03:58:08 AM »

does anyone agree boxing is now.......shit.

i believe steroids have ruined boxing.

as only me said back in his day the matches were amazing, you had real athletes like frazier, ali, foreman, sugar ray leonard, hagler, hearns, duran, tyson.

there are very few great boxers around now - especialy at the heavier weights.

exeptions are floyd mayweather ( although lighter), and roy jones jnr - who i feel are both very similar in style funnily enough.

i only watch the lighter weight fights these days, ( and calzaghe).

CigaretteMan · « **Reply #127 on:** June 29, 2008, 06:33:05 AM »

Quote from: TrueGrit on June 26, 2008, 06:34:45 AM

Who would win?

Rickson by armbar.

local hero · « **Reply #128 on:** June 29, 2008, 06:38:56 AM »

how have steroids ruined boxing, probly more prevailent in the 60's and 70's when all athletes took them?

??

these things come in cycles,,, one decade the lighter weights flourish, the next the big boys run the show,, just goin thru a bad spell at the mo,, the 90's were a good period for heavyweights, u could compare lewis, holyfeild,tyson, bowe to any period in boxing

in my other post i messed my wording up,,, liston took a dive in both fights, once with a punch that never was, the other with a mysterious "injury"... i meant to say, liston was too much at that time in his career for ali... but ali would have beaten him , just as he did foreman later on in his career...

local hero · « **Reply #129 on:** June 29, 2008, 06:43:58 AM »

why the twisty face at that comment,,, all athlete took them like sweets during that time, they werent even tested!

SweetMuscles · « **Reply #130 on:** June 29, 2008, 07:12:15 AM »

my money is on the black guy

Fatpanda · « **Reply #131 on:** June 29, 2008, 07:21:03 AM »

yes 'some' may have took them, but not the number of users its at today.

steroid taking boxers have a 'look' the naturals don't - look at the guys i mentioned and compare them with todays boxers

totally different look - and i deont believe for 1 sec its due to harder training now.

also the heavyweights today are so big, but also extremly slow - look at golota - the russian frankenstein. matches these days are just 2 guys bumping/fumbling into each other, while throwing the odd punch trying to keep their balance - they also fatigue very early indeed these days (at the heavier weights) despite training for endurance

closeline · « **Reply #132 on:** June 29, 2008, 08:01:15 AM »

same procedure in every sport today

look at the nba of the 80s erly 90s and yom must cry

look at the weightlifting of the 80s erly 90s and yom must cry

look at the bodybuilding of the 80s erly 90s and yom must cry

and so on

huge lack of talent and dedication everywhere

Darren Avey · « **Reply #133 on:** June 29, 2008, 02:18:17 PM »

Boixng needs a HW superstar to wake the sport up again. MMA will kill it otherwise in the mainstream, i prefer boxing as i think a stand up fist fight is or can be dam exciting, rolling round on the floor trying to put on holds while skilled isnt as exciting as seeing a guy KTFO!

polychronopolous · « **Reply #134 on:** June 29, 2008, 03:53:33 PM »

Quote from: cheftim on June 28, 2008, 09:51:55 PM

Prime Tyson? Hercules couldn't take his shots!

Buster Douglass took his punches. And don't use the lame excuse that he was "past his prime". He was 23 when he fought Douglas, did his superhuman punching power just vanish like a fart in the wind? Get real.

onlyme · « **Reply #135 on:** June 29, 2008, 05:22:56 PM »

Quote from: polychronopolous on June 29, 2008, 03:53:33 PM

Buster Douglass took his punches. And don't use the lame excuse that he was "past his prime". He was 23 when he fought Douglas, did his superhuman punching power just vanish like a fart in the wind? Get real.

This is true. Douglas was a 47 to 1 underdog and basically a no one. he looked awesome that night in every way and kicked Mike ass even after being knocked down. Douglas was never afraid of Mike. Mike kicked the guys asses who were afraid of him. The guys who weren't did well or at least lasted just like that moron Greene

americanbulldog · « **Reply #136 on:** June 30, 2008, 01:46:28 AM »

Quote from: pumpster on June 28, 2008, 01:15:08 PM

Agreed, however Ali's weakness was power so the fights were rarely over as fast as you claim, it would've taken longer as it did with most of his fights.

As i've mentioned the closest comparisons would be Douglas-Tyson, since Douglas was for one fight a great boxer not dissimilar to Ali and thus a good proxy for Ali, and Foreman against Ali, as Foreman was an excellent proxy for Tyson. Douglas for that one fight just after his mother died finally finding motivation and realizing his potential as a great boxer not dissimal to Ali. He always had the physical part, and for that one fight he had motivation married with Ali's boxing skills, height and reach and see what happened.

Tyson never proved for the most part that he had the guts to stand in with a good fighter if the fight didnt end early, similar to Foreman. Foreman was just as awesome but also had the same weakness, a lack of endurance and guts to last 15 rounds when needed. Hollyfield's ear was bitten in order to end the fight he didn't want to be in, because as his ex-trainer said Tyson was essentially a coward when not able to be a bully. He was not mentally tough as he would've needed to be against great fighters.

Best examples of proven formulas to beat Ali were the first Frazier-Ali fight, before Frazier had been hit too much and before Ali used excessive holding that refs allowed him to get away with in subsequent fights without penalty, and Ken Norton, who in effect beat Ali 2 out of 3 fights despite the outcomes.

Just like Mike Tyson didn't fare well against BOXERs with footwork, a stiff jab, Ali conversely fared very well against brawlers with power. Ali survived Ernie Shavers, who had MORE power than Ali, beat a YOUNG Foreman, fought through a broken jaw against Norton only to lose a split decision, then beat Norton by split decision. His fights with Frazier are legendary, but he also beat Jerry Quarry twice, both by TKO, KOed Jimmy Ellis, who previously beat down Foreman, and was destroying Liston in the first fight flash KO of the second nowithstanding.

MuscleMcMannus · « **Reply #137 on:** June 30, 2008, 02:01:55 AM »

Quote from: Darren Avey on June 29, 2008, 02:18:17 PM

Boixng needs a HW superstar to wake the sport up again. MMA will kill it otherwise in the mainstream, i prefer boxing as i think a stand up fist fight is or can be dam exciting, rolling round on the floor trying to put on holds while skilled isnt as exciting as seeing a guy KTFO!

In some respects MMA is a joke. You've got teachers leaving their profession to try to make it big in MMA? LOL. How many heavy weight boxers left a desk job to try to make it big? LOL NONE! You don't make it big in heavyweight boxing. It's something you train your ass off for day in and day out. MMA is boring as hell to watch and this is coming from someone who trains religiously in martial arts and self defense. Boxing is fun to watch. The only reason MMA is so damn popular is because people think what they see these guys do in the ring works in the street or somehow makes them tough and what not. They think there is this huge carry over effect. There is NOT! I'd roll around on the ground with any expert in BJJ and you know what?............I'll bite a fucking chunk out of his leg or smash him in his fucking nuts. You put any of those MMA fighters in a boxing ring and they'd get their ass handed to them. Some of them are great athletes and great at what they do in the MMA ring. But that's about it. MMA and UFC is all hype with a bunch of uneducated fans who have no clue about real fighting in general. Atleast that's your average TapOut/Affliction T-shirt wearing MMA fan for the most part. Ohhhhhhhhh I forgot about all the stupid women that have jumped on the MMA is cool bandwagon lately. UFC was cool for the first few years when you didn't have weight classes and had guys like Royce Gracie fighting huge ass sumo wrestlers etc. Now you've got all these stupid ass weight classes that make it even more unrealistic. There are no weight classes in the street. BJ Penn would have to fight a Ken Shamrock.

TechnoViking · « **Reply #138 on:** June 30, 2008, 02:42:32 AM »

The simple answer is this...Ali would have gotten into the ring and been the favorite...Ali would have not been intimidated by Tyson...Tyson as good as he was, fought complete hacks or guys past there prime...And when Tyson finally lost a fight, it was because the guy had nothing to lose and wasn't going to be intimidated...

Ali fought the american government and won...Mike Tyson would have been this lesser man in front of him...When Ali took Tyson into the later rounds and Tyson knew he was not going to knock Ali out, the fight basically would have been over and what happend in the Tyson/Douglas fight would have also happend in the Tyson/Ali fight...

TechnoViking · « **Reply #139 on:** June 30, 2008, 02:45:33 AM »

Quote from: cheftim on June 28, 2008, 09:51:55 PM

This is a debate that myself and the greens keeper that I work with debate daily. If anyone could KO Ali? It would be Iron Mike. If anyone could beat a prime Tyson? It would be Ali. There's only one debate here? Tyson wasn't a George Foreman. If Ali did the rope-a-dope with Mike he wouldn't have made it. Please don't disagree with that. Tyson was so accurate and painfully hurtful with both hands. He knocked people out! Ali had a chin no doubt! Prime Tyson? Hercules couldn't take his shots! If Ali could take him out of the 4 round comfort zone? Ali is my favorite no doubt. Holyfield second. Iron Mike Tyson in his prime was a KO machine. In my opinion The only one that could beat a prime Iron Mike is Mohammed Ali?

Show me one fighter that Tyson fought who was worth a shit in the 80's...And when he finally fought anyone with some talent in the 90's, we all know what happend...Holyfield showed us the type of fighter Mike Tyson was...

Mike Tyson was fun to watch...But so isn't the new game show WipeOut where they put complete fatass's up against obstacles that would be tuff for a seasoned athlete

hipolito mejia · « **Reply #140 on:** June 30, 2008, 06:01:33 AM »

My Heart goes with Ali, my pocket with Tyson (specially if the fight its to be over in less than 3 rounds).

d0nny2600 · « **Reply #141 on:** June 30, 2008, 06:46:41 AM »

Tyson has 3-4 rounds to land 1 solid punch - if he does game over...
Otherwise he will get pissed off and eat Ali's ear and rape his family...either way the man wins!

americanbulldog · « **Reply #142 on:** June 30, 2008, 11:58:59 AM »

Quote from: MuscleMcMannus on June 30, 2008, 02:01:55 AM

In some respects MMA is a joke. You've got teachers leaving their profession to try to make it big in MMA? LOL. How many heavy weight boxers left a desk job to try to make it big? LOL NONE! You don't make it big in heavyweight boxing. It's something you train your ass off for day in and day out. MMA is boring as hell to watch and this is coming from someone who trains religiously in martial arts and self defense. Boxing is fun to watch. The only reason MMA is so damn popular is because people think what they see these guys do in the ring works in the street or somehow makes them tough and what not. They think there is this huge carry over effect. There is NOT! I'd roll around on the ground with any expert in BJJ and you know what?............I'll bite a fucking chunk out of his leg or smash him in his fucking nuts. You put any of those MMA fighters in a boxing ring and they'd get their ass handed to them. Some of them are great athletes and great at what they do in the MMA ring. But that's about it. MMA and UFC is all hype with a bunch of uneducated fans who have no clue about real fighting in general. Atleast that's your average TapOut/Affliction T-shirt wearing MMA fan for the most part. Ohhhhhhhhh I forgot about all the stupid women that have jumped on the MMA is cool bandwagon lately. UFC was cool for the first few years when you didn't have weight classes and had guys like Royce Gracie fighting huge ass sumo wrestlers etc. Now you've got all these stupid ass weight classes that make it even more unrealistic. There are no weight classes in the street. BJ Penn would have to fight a Ken Shamrock.

And BJ would win. I tell you what. Go to Renzo's school, you are in NY aren't you, tell him you want an NHB fight where biting is allowed, I am sure he will accomodate you. You can test your theories.

MuscleMcMannus · « **Reply #143 on:** June 30, 2008, 12:45:38 PM »

Quote from: americanbulldog on June 30, 2008, 11:58:59 AM

And BJ would win. I tell you what. Go to Renzo's school, you are in NY aren't you, tell him you want an NHB fight where biting is allowed, I am sure he will accomodate you. You can test your theories.

Im not currently in NY at the moment. And I'm not about to say I can step in the ring with any of the Gracies. I'm not a black belt. But there are black belts at my school. I'll put my system up against any sytem any day of the week. But we are not just talking biting what about head butting, groin punches, eye gouging as well?. That's part of what VAJ is all about. Like I said ask Renzo Gracie (or the Gracie guy with first name H something) who John Petrone and Professor David James are. He'll tell you. If you want to put a Renzo black belt up against a VAJ blackbelt or a Renzo yellow belt or a red belt or any other comparable level of belt up against the equivalent VAJ rank you'd be sadly surprised at how "effective" Gracie jijitsu really is in a street situation.

Fatpanda · « **Reply #144 on:** June 30, 2008, 12:47:23 PM »

Quote from: americanbulldog on June 30, 2008, 11:58:59 AM

And BJ would win. I tell you what. Go to Renzo's school, you are in NY aren't you, tell him you want an NHB fight where biting is allowed, I am sure he will accomodate you. You can test your theories.

hahahahaha i'm quite sure this 'martialartkillingmachine mcmannus' will be too busy to face renzo that day

MuscleMcMannus · « **Reply #145 on:** June 30, 2008, 01:05:27 PM »

Quote from: Fatpanda on June 30, 2008, 12:47:23 PM

hahahahaha i'm quite sure this 'martialartkillingmachine mcmannus' will be too busy to face renzo that day

Could I beat Renzo Gracie? Umm yeah ok

He's been training longer than I've been alive tough guy. Now I'd put Shihan John Petrone up against him or Professor David James up against him in a heart beat and they'd probably kill the guy.

Fatpanda · « **Reply #146 on:** June 30, 2008, 01:17:15 PM »

Quote from: MuscleMcMannus on June 30, 2008, 01:05:27 PM

Could I beat Renzo Gracie? Umm yeah ok He's been training longer than I've been alive tough guy. Now I'd put Shihan John Petrone up against him or Professor David James up against him in a heart beat and they'd probably kill the guy.

the fact remains that despite your fairytale notions that boxers would beat any mma guy are just plain wrong. in a boxing match yes, in a mma match or a street fight not a chance in hell.

as for petrone and james

its all conjecture. the gracies were fighting real fights on the streets of brazil, so these ultimate protection guys might find the gracies could also bite and come up with other tactics.

MuscleMcMannus · « **Reply #147 on:** June 30, 2008, 01:20:57 PM »

Quote from: Fatpanda on June 30, 2008, 01:17:15 PM

the fact remains that despite your fairytale notions that boxers would beat any mma guy are just plain wrong. in a boxing match yes, in a mma match or a street fight not a chance in hell.

as for petrone and james its all conjecture. the gracies were fighting real fights on the streets of brazil, so these ultimate protection guys might find the gracies could also bite and come up with other tactics.

Hey you're entitled to your opinion. Like I told Americanbulldog ask any of the Gracies about John Petrone and Vee Arnis Jitsu. They'll tell you he's a crazy bad ass not to be messed with.

Benny B · « **Reply #148 on:** June 30, 2008, 01:21:44 PM »

Quote from: Fatpanda on June 30, 2008, 01:17:15 PM

the fact remains that despite your fairytale notions that boxers would beat any mma guy are just plain wrong. in a boxing match yes, in a mma match or a street fight not a chance in hell.

you are overreaching with this statement

Hustle Man · « **Reply #149 on:** June 30, 2008, 01:28:06 PM »

Quote from: bigbobs on June 26, 2008, 08:52:24 AM

The guy who is getting demolished by Tyson in this video beat Ali, although it was well past Ali's prime, but still...first round KO

I think you are confusing Michael Spinks (the guy in the video) with his brother Leon Spinks.