Author Topic: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?  (Read 1927 times)

TrapsMcLats

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Now, to start things off, I believe in America, i believe in a land of opportunity free from religious overtones or a ruling tyranny. I believe in capitalism and dreams. the US may not be all those things currently, but i believe it can get there and be a strong nation like we once were.  I look at the people we were at the end of the 2nd world war.  The men were tough and willing to die for their country because they believed in it.  Now, when i talk to people everywhere the sentiment is the same; if they were drafted they'd move to canada or mexico.  And it bugs the shit out of me because so many of these people are the ones who bitch the most, talk up how great this or that candidate is, how much better the europeans handle things, how we should have this and that and blah blah blah... It doesn't make any sense. 

The US ain't perfect, never has been and never will be... but to only believe in a perfect nation, to only fight for a perfect land is nonsense.  you don't fight for perfection.  you fight for the right to have a say in trying to create a better nation, you fight so that no one can come in and tell you how to live, you fight so that future citizens can enjoy the same liberties that you have been able to enjoy, you fight for a way of life you believe in.  When did this sentiment start though??  Was it vietnam? Was it the cold war?  was it baby boomers being raised by a generation of veterans or...? I think the current administration has had a huge impact on the lack of patriotism.  What could've been a great continued sentiment of anti terrorist-pro american  patriotism was completely lost and rather foolishly by george bush because he and his crew are such massive liars.  Post 9/11 saw unprecedented pro US feelings from all citizens and people seemed ready to fight again.

I hate george bush, i think he should be tried as a criminal the day he leaves office, but if i were drafted in a war to fight for americas freedom i would fight that fight and i would like to believe there are more people like me.  I think more should be done in america to generate national pride.  i believe in israel's policy of making all citizens join the military at 18.  I also think that the pay scale for the military should be vastly increased.  I lived in san diego for a time and let me tell you, the people in the military are fucking retarded, some of the dumbest people i have ever met.  I mean scary stupid, close minded target practice for camels stupid.  It shouldn't be that way.  Making a career out of defending your nation should bring you more than 14k a year. 

I would like to hear other americans opinions on this or if they have encountered it as well.  I personaly hope the US never has to fight a war again, but i would like to believe that if we had to, our citizens would be lining up in the streets to defend our freedom.

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2008, 08:02:47 PM »
I believe in America, i believe in a land of opportunity free from religious overtones or a ruling tyranny. I believe in capitalism and dreams. the US may not be all those things currently, but i believe it can get there and be a strong nation like we once were.

Amen!

We must defeat the Neo Conservatives.  They will destroy our country.

I believe our citizens would happily unite, and defeat an enemy if needed.  I think to many people know the truth about the "Global War On Terror", and are extremely discouraged by it.
S

TrapsMcLats

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2008, 08:12:47 PM »
Fucking neocons...  crazy bastards

Slapper

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2008, 07:12:02 PM »
Now, to start things off, I believe in America, i believe in a land of opportunity free from religious overtones or a ruling tyranny. I believe in capitalism and dreams. the US may not be all those things currently, but i believe it can get there and be a strong nation like we once were.  I look at the people we were at the end of the 2nd world war.  The men were tough and willing to die for their country because they believed in it.  Now, when i talk to people everywhere the sentiment is the same; if they were drafted they'd move to canada or mexico.  And it bugs the shit out of me because so many of these people are the ones who bitch the most, talk up how great this or that candidate is, how much better the europeans handle things, how we should have this and that and blah blah blah... It doesn't make any sense. 

The US ain't perfect, never has been and never will be... but to only believe in a perfect nation, to only fight for a perfect land is nonsense.  you don't fight for perfection.  you fight for the right to have a say in trying to create a better nation, you fight so that no one can come in and tell you how to live, you fight so that future citizens can enjoy the same liberties that you have been able to enjoy, you fight for a way of life you believe in.  When did this sentiment start though??  Was it vietnam? Was it the cold war?  was it baby boomers being raised by a generation of veterans or...? I think the current administration has had a huge impact on the lack of patriotism.  What could've been a great continued sentiment of anti terrorist-pro american  patriotism was completely lost and rather foolishly by george bush because he and his crew are such massive liars.  Post 9/11 saw unprecedented pro US feelings from all citizens and people seemed ready to fight again.

I hate george bush, i think he should be tried as a criminal the day he leaves office, but if i were drafted in a war to fight for americas freedom i would fight that fight and i would like to believe there are more people like me.  I think more should be done in america to generate national pride.  i believe in israel's policy of making all citizens join the military at 18.  I also think that the pay scale for the military should be vastly increased.  I lived in san diego for a time and let me tell you, the people in the military are fucking retarded, some of the dumbest people i have ever met.  I mean scary stupid, close minded target practice for camels stupid.  It shouldn't be that way.  Making a career out of defending your nation should bring you more than 14k a year. 

I would like to hear other americans opinions on this or if they have encountered it as well.  I personaly hope the US never has to fight a war again, but i would like to believe that if we had to, our citizens would be lining up in the streets to defend our freedom.

Not for nothing but it was precisely patriotism that got us to where we are now. What we need is Americans that uphold the Constitution above anything else, including presidents. That's what a real patriot is.

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2008, 07:28:54 PM »
Amen!

We must defeat the Neo Conservatives.  They will destroy our country.

I believe our citizens would happily unite, and defeat an enemy if needed.  I think to many people know the truth about the "Global War On Terror", and are extremely discouraged by it.

I agree.

headhuntersix

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2008, 02:38:11 PM »
Don't worry u won't have to serve and disrupt ur lives.  ::)
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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2008, 03:20:35 PM »
Now, to start things off, I believe in America, i believe in a land of opportunity free from religious overtones or a ruling tyranny. I believe in capitalism and dreams. the US may not be all those things currently, but i believe it can get there and be a strong nation like we once were.  I look at the people we were at the end of the 2nd world war.  The men were tough and willing to die for their country because they believed in it.  Now, when i talk to people everywhere the sentiment is the same; if they were drafted they'd move to canada or mexico.  And it bugs the shit out of me because so many of these people are the ones who bitch the most, talk up how great this or that candidate is, how much better the europeans handle things, how we should have this and that and blah blah blah... It doesn't make any sense. 

The US ain't perfect, never has been and never will be... but to only believe in a perfect nation, to only fight for a perfect land is nonsense.  you don't fight for perfection.  you fight for the right to have a say in trying to create a better nation, you fight so that no one can come in and tell you how to live, you fight so that future citizens can enjoy the same liberties that you have been able to enjoy, you fight for a way of life you believe in.  When did this sentiment start though??  Was it vietnam? Was it the cold war?  was it baby boomers being raised by a generation of veterans or...? I think the current administration has had a huge impact on the lack of patriotism.  What could've been a great continued sentiment of anti terrorist-pro american  patriotism was completely lost and rather foolishly by george bush because he and his crew are such massive liars.  Post 9/11 saw unprecedented pro US feelings from all citizens and people seemed ready to fight again.

I hate george bush, i think he should be tried as a criminal the day he leaves office, but if i were drafted in a war to fight for americas freedom i would fight that fight and i would like to believe there are more people like me.  I think more should be done in america to generate national pride.  i believe in israel's policy of making all citizens join the military at 18.  I also think that the pay scale for the military should be vastly increased.  I lived in san diego for a time and let me tell you, the people in the military are fucking retarded, some of the dumbest people i have ever met.  I mean scary stupid, close minded target practice for camels stupid.  It shouldn't be that way.  Making a career out of defending your nation should bring you more than 14k a year. 

I would like to hear other americans opinions on this or if they have encountered it as well.  I personaly hope the US never has to fight a war again, but i would like to believe that if we had to, our citizens would be lining up in the streets to defend our freedom.


In regards to the draft, the Decloration of Independance says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."

If we are all created equal, who gave the authority to some politicians and lawyers to force others into fighting and possibly dying or else face imprisonment?  Did god give them the authority?

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2008, 02:31:16 AM »
Well I think the internet has truly revolutionized life nowadays.  We have more access to information and news at the touch of a mouse.  I agree this can be good as well as bad but overrall allows people to be more informed and gain access to other sources of information and news than what the corporate controlled mainstream media dishes out.  Were people as informed during WWII?  Of course not.  How many Americans realized WallStreet i.e. U.S. corporations and banks were financing and supporting both sides of the war i.e. the Axis powers as well as the Allied Powers?  How many people knew about Operation Northwoods at the time?  The plot to overthrow FDR?  What would have happened if the internet was around during the JFK assassination?  I mean come on people if you still think 19 hijackers with box cutters and fire brought down two of the most sophisticated steels structure in the history of mankind, not to mention WTC 7, well keep your head buried in the sand. 

I love my country, I believe in the Constitution and the founding fathers ideology i.e. the Declaration of Independence, freedom and the Republic.  However, it's been A LONG time since the U.S. Government has represented the average American or democratic principles  Some want to throwback to the good ol 50's as being the greatest times and a burgeoning middle class.  However, that's when most of the shit we see nowadays started.  The CIA was created post WWII.  What good has the CIA done?  It's one of the biggest drug traffickers the world has ever known.  It's instilled regime change through violent military coup d'etats the world over.....hardly the bastion of democracy our country is supposed to represent. 

I think young people are much more apt to question war nowadays, as well they should.  American foreign policy since WWII is what's responsible for our inevitable demise we are seeing today.  The U.S. Government for the last 100 years has existed to serve corporate interests over the interests of its people.  America is the number one arms exporter and dealer for a reason.  Without war our economy would fall apart.  Does this not resonate with anyone?  The U.S. government along with most of Europe's government and the industrialized west serves the interests of big business.  Most corporations wield more power and influence throughout the world than any one government ever could. 

As far as capitalism, we don't have capitalism in the U.S.  We have state corporatism.  Example, we used to have 20 major oil companies all competing 50 years ago.......thanks to the government we now have only 5.  And we can all agree just how much influence and power these 5 companies have over our government, our military and our lives. 

I think those of you in the military need to get a grip, for the most part the U.S military has ceased to represent the American people and definitely does not represent the Constitution nor uphold it.  You can start by reading War is a Racket by Smedley Butler.   

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2008, 02:36:12 AM »
Oh and here is another reason why my fucking country pisses me off.  Here we have a candidate, a fucking true patriot that believes in America, its history, and above all the Constitution.  I mean here he is people.......the one man that would have changed EVERYTHING and truly made a difference and turned this country around........right here in front of your eyes for all to see...........and what happened?  LOL He dropped out of the fucking race because he couldn't get enough support and the mainstream corporate media paid him no attention.  Some of you may know him as Ron Paul.  Now I'm not a libertarian (I know Paul isn't but most of his ideology is) nor do I agree with everything he says i.e. returning to the gold standard and his views on immigration, but my god he would have been a HUGE change for a country that is in dire need of it.  Now we are reduced to choosing between more fucking neocon Bushism with BigLeagueChew poster boy John McCain or a socialist liberal girl like Obama who's alma mater influence at Columbia was none other than Zbigniew Brzezinki.  Both of these idiots will leave this country bankrupt and both will keep us in Iraq and the middle east for the next hundred years.  they are simply two sides of the same coin. 

mac7000

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2008, 10:51:17 AM »
I served eight years in the military and I agree with the complaints I hear in public.  Im a pretty neutral guy definitly not a "war hawk" but all you hear about is how so and so is against Iraq and they would never serve.  What about all the peace keeping missions, reconstruction and food deliveries we do in other countries.  People are very selfish now a days, I admit sometimes the military sucks but in the long run it usually makes you a bette person.




MuscleMcMannus

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2008, 10:56:07 AM »
I served eight years in the military and I agree with the complaints I hear in public.  Im a pretty neutral guy definitly not a "war hawk" but all you hear about is how so and so is against Iraq and they would never serve.  What about all the peace keeping missions, reconstruction and food deliveries we do in other countries.  People are very selfish now a days, I admit sometimes the military sucks but in the long run it usually makes you a bette person.





The military per se is of course a great institution.  But how it's being used and manipulated by the powers that be is what pisses most people off.  A lot of the military reconstruction and peace keeping is a direct result of our foreign policy blunders.  We are just cleaning up our mess for the most part.  And like I said in other posts corporate America could give two shits about our military.  Wallstreet and the bankers were funding both the Axis and Allied powers during WWII. 

Straw Man

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2008, 10:57:18 AM »
Don't worry u won't have to serve and disrupt ur lives.  ::)

I thought you applauded people who didn't serve and even admired the chicken hawks who were able to get out of serving in a war zone at a time when their country needed them the most.

Suckers who join the military in times of war, whether out of patriotism or because they need this as a way to pay for college, get what they deserve. You won't find "smart guys" like George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Dennis Hastert, Bill Frist, or Tom DeLay being so stupid. Every one of them dodged a war they both supported and were eligible for. People like Kerry and McCain have proved their stupidity by going to war when they didn't have to. Republican voters (middle and upper class white folks) won’t let their kids fall into this trap, so they can see war as cost-free and pain-free.

mac7000

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2008, 08:02:48 PM »
The military per se is of course a great institution.  But how it's being used and manipulated by the powers that be is what pisses most people off.  A lot of the military reconstruction and peace keeping is a direct result of our foreign policy blunders.  We are just cleaning up our mess for the most part.  And like I said in other posts corporate America could give two shits about our military.  Wallstreet and the bankers were funding both the Axis and Allied powers during WWII. 

Im confused how soldiers and Marines are manipulated?  relief efforts in Burma, pakistan, africa, Katrina have nothing to do with foreign policies.

I was really happy when I got out of the military, unfortunately people like yourself have a warped view of what the military is.

 Why would I care what corporate america thinks about the war? The problem with most Americans is that there so busy thinking about themselves they can't fathom selfless service.

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2008, 08:17:05 PM »
Now, to start things off, I believe in America, i believe in a land of opportunity free from religious overtones or a ruling tyranny. I believe in capitalism and dreams. the US may not be all those things currently, but i believe it can get there and be a strong nation like we once were.  I look at the people we were at the end of the 2nd world war.  The men were tough and willing to die for their country because they believed in it.  Now, when i talk to people everywhere the sentiment is the same; if they were drafted they'd move to canada or mexico.  And it bugs the shit out of me because so many of these people are the ones who bitch the most, talk up how great this or that candidate is, how much better the europeans handle things, how we should have this and that and blah blah blah... It doesn't make any sense. 

The US ain't perfect, never has been and never will be... but to only believe in a perfect nation, to only fight for a perfect land is nonsense.  you don't fight for perfection.  you fight for the right to have a say in trying to create a better nation, you fight so that no one can come in and tell you how to live, you fight so that future citizens can enjoy the same liberties that you have been able to enjoy, you fight for a way of life you believe in.  When did this sentiment start though??  Was it vietnam? Was it the cold war?  was it baby boomers being raised by a generation of veterans or...? I think the current administration has had a huge impact on the lack of patriotism.  What could've been a great continued sentiment of anti terrorist-pro american  patriotism was completely lost and rather foolishly by george bush because he and his crew are such massive liars.  Post 9/11 saw unprecedented pro US feelings from all citizens and people seemed ready to fight again.

I hate george bush, i think he should be tried as a criminal the day he leaves office, but if i were drafted in a war to fight for americas freedom i would fight that fight and i would like to believe there are more people like me.  I think more should be done in america to generate national pride.  i believe in israel's policy of making all citizens join the military at 18.  I also think that the pay scale for the military should be vastly increased.  I lived in san diego for a time and let me tell you, the people in the military are fucking retarded, some of the dumbest people i have ever met.  I mean scary stupid, close minded target practice for camels stupid.  It shouldn't be that way.  Making a career out of defending your nation should bring you more than 14k a year. 

I would like to hear other americans opinions on this or if they have encountered it as well.  I personaly hope the US never has to fight a war again, but i would like to believe that if we had to, our citizens would be lining up in the streets to defend our freedom.

The USA is free from religious overtones? Hardly...even a guy I like, such as Ron Paul, is a fundamentalist Christian. Religion is unfortunately everywhere.
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TrapsMcLats

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2008, 09:04:20 PM »
I said i believe in that, not that it actually exists.  try reading things in their entireity and in context, its fun.

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2008, 09:07:30 PM »
I said i believe in that, not that it actually exists.  try reading things in their entireity and in context, its fun.

BTW, don't worry, there will be many wars; the Military Industrial Complex will see to it.
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TrapsMcLats

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2008, 09:12:12 PM »
I'm not saying i want any wars, i'm complaining about the fact that people only seem to want to fight for a perfect nation, and not fight for the idea of working towards an ideal nation.  Look at all those in zimbabwe who can't even oppose mugabe, we have so many more liberties in america that its almost laughable.  Thats worth fighting for.

headhuntersix

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2008, 05:30:56 PM »
Maybe people don't realize it because they either don't leave the US or don't travel to 3rd world shitholes and see how bad it can be.
L

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2008, 05:41:14 PM »
Maybe people don't realize it because they either don't leave the US or don't travel to 3rd world shitholes and see how bad it can be.

Why ever leave the USA; it's the best country on earth!
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headhuntersix

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2008, 05:43:52 PM »
It is the best country on the planet...but its nice to travel.
L

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2008, 06:43:20 PM »
It is the best country on the planet...but its nice to travel.

Really? What's the point of travelling?
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headhuntersix

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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2008, 06:51:20 PM »
To see the rest of the world and realize its nice to come home.... ;)
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Re: Draft Dodging... when did we americans become so picky about a war?
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2008, 07:00:45 PM »
I served eight years in the military and I agree with the complaints I hear in public.  Im a pretty neutral guy definitly not a "war hawk" but all you hear about is how so and so is against Iraq and they would never serve.  What about all the peace keeping missions, reconstruction and food deliveries we do in other countries.  People are very selfish now a days, I admit sometimes the military sucks but in the long run it usually makes you a bette person.


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