Author Topic: The most complete back of all time...  (Read 36521 times)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #125 on: July 07, 2008, 01:04:48 PM »
yes it did, you dumbass. The 01 ASC and 03 Mr. Olympia are considered Ronnie's 2 best showings; both contests were after 99 when Flex magazine came out with their first poll for best back.

it's really simple: Ronnie's back was just as good without the ugly bacne and skin folds. ;)



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yes it did, you dumbass. The 01 ASC and 03 Mr. Olympia are considered Ronnie's 2 best showings; both contests were after 99 when Flex magazine came out with their first poll for best back.

NO 1998/2001 are considered his two best showings NOT 2003 that more of your ignorance showing and again did his back improve? NO his back was on par 2001 with 1998 and either contest his lats still' aren't as thick or as wide as Yates , same with the thickness of the traps and spinal erectors and overall detail , 2003 his back was thick & wide but lacked granite hardness and detail compared to 98/01 nevermind Yates so you're fucked either way

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it's really simple: Ronnie's back was just as good without the ugly bacne and skin folds. ;)

No it wasn't more of your nonsense , in the pics I posted did you see acne? NO did you see loose skin? NO more of your fan boy bullshit , Dorian doesn't have any loose skin more bullshit ignorance on your part Ronnie's back wasn't just as good

Ronnie's lats are NOT good as Dorians , they're not striated & detailed like Dorians they're not as low & as wide as Dorians and they're not as thick as Dorians

Ronnie's spinal erectors aren't as thick as Dorian's or as striated

Ronnie's traps aren't as big or as thick as Dorian's or as detailed , Dorian has striations in his traps does Ronnie? NO

Ronnie's teres & infranspinatus aren't as big or as detailed as Dorians

your ignorant as the day is long , you claim to know anatomy Mr " certified personal trainer " go back to class , go look up each of those muscles and compare the two you'll find Yates has the clear advantage regardless of what ' team flex ' says


pumpster

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #126 on: July 07, 2008, 01:18:23 PM »
 Dorian's and Ronnie's backs are close, but what separates them apart and gives Dorian the nod over Ronnie is the fact that Dorian had the genetically superior back. By this, I mean that Dorian had lats that attached lower than Ronnie's. This doesen't mean much when it comes to lat width and thickness, but it certainly matters as far the lower part of the back is concerned: there is a thick wall of muscle around Dorian's erector spinae, which Ronnie never had. It is an aesthetic advantage that makes Dorian's back overral the better one of the two.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

What you've done is selectively allocate more weight to things you personally prefer, especially in bringing up aesthetics that (1) are subjective and (2) which Yates was never known for.

Then you decided that Yates has some advantages in the lower back, something quite debatable, while completely neglecting to mention Coleman's advantages and Yates' drawbacks. Coleman had  huge advantages in taper, width, waist and traps. Personally i also think Coleman had better aesthetics given Yates' bad skin and folds not to mention the lesser taper and blocky waist.

In addition, Yates' imbalance in arm size relative to torso and in comparison to Coleman is a negative in the back lat spread, for those who pay attention. The triceps size differenential is especially noticable in that pose. :D


Armstrong

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #127 on: July 07, 2008, 01:43:32 PM »
That picture is amazing

DORIAN'S BACK WAS AWESOME  :o
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #128 on: July 07, 2008, 01:47:14 PM »
 :o

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #129 on: July 07, 2008, 01:50:02 PM »
 ;)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #130 on: July 07, 2008, 01:57:01 PM »
 ;)

suckmymuscle

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #131 on: July 07, 2008, 02:00:44 PM »
What you've done is selectively allocate more weight to things you personally prefer, especially in bringing up aesthetics that (1) are subjective and (2) which Yates was never known for.

Then you decided that Yates has some advantages in the lower back, something quite debatable, while completely neglecting to mention Coleman's advantages and Yates' drawbacks. Coleman had  huge advantages in taper, width, waist and traps. Personally i also think Coleman had better aesthetics given Yates' bad skin and folds not to mention the lesser taper and blocky waist.

In addition, Yates' imbalance in arm size relative to torso and in comparison to Coleman is a negative in the back lat spread, for those who pay attention. :D

  No, I'm not talking about aesthetics, but about completeness and development, which are not included in part of aesthetics. Dorian's back is superior because the attachment point of his lats in the tendom is lower, which means that he has more muscle fibers in the lower part of his back to develop, which means that his back is more symmetrically developed than Ronnie's.

  Ronnie's back is lacking in the sense that, because his lats attach high, he has little muscle in the lower part of his back, which gives his back a less proportional development in relation to Dorian's. Look at Ronnie's infra-spinatus and you'll see what I'm talking about. In fact, one of the reasons why Ronnie has better taper from the back than Dorian is not because his waist is smaller, but because the muscles around the erector spinae are less developed than Dorian's. Besides, Dorian's middle back muscles are more developed than Ronnie's, and this is evident in Dorian's superior christmas-tree.

  How does the lower back come into play as far as a bodybuildign contest goes? Well, there is the back turn during the symmetry round, and the two mandatories. If you assume that each one of the three angles in the symmetry round accounts for 33% of the round, and that the symmetry round accounts for 50% of the total score, then that is around 16.5% of the point right there. Then add 2 out of the 7 mandatories, and that is around 30% of the muscularity round, or 15% of the total score. So Dorian wins 31.5% of the totaql points judged in a contest only because of his lower back and calves, which makes him more complete from the back in the back part of the symmetry round and in the 2 back mandatories.

  You need to comprehend that we are evaluating very objective properties here. The development of a muscle is apparent to the eyes, and we can properly access who has the more developed of it between two bodybuilders. It is not merely an artistic evaluation. The "superior" aesthetics of Ronnie's back to you will not be seen as such by the judges, but rather as the result of poor development of the lower back muscles when compared to Dorian.

  Bodybuilding judging is composed of the evaluation of two properties of physiques: the amount of muscle contained herewith, and how proportional is the symmetrical distribution of said muscle throghout the skeleton. Aesthetics is usually confused with symmetry, but they are distinct phenomena. Symmetry in regards to bodybuilding refers to proportionality of size between muscles, while aesthetics infers properties in the shape of the muscle itself which makes it to cause contemplation in thos obsering it - like one contemplates a masterpiece by Rembrandt. That the two words are analogous only lexicographically but not denotatively is obvious in that one can have a physique that is both symmstrical and unaesthetic. A good example is Nasser's physique from the front, which was very symmetrical, but yet was lacking in aesthetics due to the poor shape of the muscles.

  As for the aforementioned advantages that you cite for Coleman, most are false and those that are not are simply not germaine to the discussion. Coleman does not have superior latissimus dorsi width compared to Dorian, and it only appears as such due to Coleman's smaller waist and lack of development of the lower back muscles. You might proposition that the judges would relevate this as an advantage, while in reality the importance of said advantage would be mitigated by the fact that said advantage is partly the result of inferior development of the lower back muscles.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

candidizzle

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #132 on: July 07, 2008, 02:05:48 PM »
these dudes back's suck !!!!!

Hulkster

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #133 on: July 07, 2008, 02:09:14 PM »
 :o
sorry dorian: Ronnie owns you.

its not 1996 anymore when Ronnie was winning olympia's.

but your 93 best ever still doesn't cut it:
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Hulkster

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #134 on: July 07, 2008, 02:11:56 PM »
dorian is barely edging out Kevin's back LOL
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #135 on: July 07, 2008, 02:13:34 PM »
:o
sorry dorian: Ronnie owns you.

its not 1996 anymore when Ronnie was winning olympia's.

but your 93 best ever still doesn't cut it:

Thats 1994 first of all lol


epic fail Hulkster

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #136 on: July 07, 2008, 02:15:28 PM »
dorian is barely edging out Kevin's back LOL

Yeah just like Dorian lost in 93 and Ronnie dominated in 01 lol

haider

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #137 on: July 07, 2008, 02:19:13 PM »
You guys need to shut the fuck up. Seriously, u guys don't realise how immature this is?
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affy

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #138 on: July 07, 2008, 02:20:36 PM »
are these two clowns paid by dorian and coleman to suck their nuts on this board?

seriously..rofl

Hulkster

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #139 on: July 07, 2008, 02:24:53 PM »
Thats 1994 first of all lol


epic fail Hulkster

no it isn't. its 93.
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #140 on: July 07, 2008, 02:30:05 PM »
no it isn't. its 93.

Wrong as usual  ;)

Hulkster = pwned ( again )

candidizzle

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #141 on: July 07, 2008, 02:31:18 PM »
my 12 year old asian nephew doesnt even train back and his lats are fuller and more detailed than dorians...  ::)

Bast000

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #142 on: July 07, 2008, 02:33:37 PM »
my 12 year old asian nephew doesnt even train back and his lats are fuller and more detailed than dorians...  ::)

and you wonder why your psychiatrist told you you're a maniac.   ::)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #143 on: July 07, 2008, 02:34:10 PM »
my 12 year old asian nephew doesnt even train back and his lats are fuller and more detailed than dorians...  ::)

wow get on him on the source post haste !!

candidizzle

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #144 on: July 07, 2008, 02:35:11 PM »
dorian yates looks like a toddler infected with teh HIV

IceCold

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #145 on: July 07, 2008, 02:36:35 PM »
:o
sorry dorian: Ronnie owns you.

its not 1996 anymore when Ronnie was winning olympia's.

but your 93 best ever still doesn't cut it:


that shot is from 01 and DJ dwarfed ronnie in that photo shoot.
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Fortress

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #146 on: July 07, 2008, 02:42:51 PM »
This thread has gotten WAY out of control.

Lion666

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #147 on: July 07, 2008, 02:59:01 PM »
A LOT of great pics have been posted.....  like everyone else, gonna be training more back.  A big developed back gives that BBr "look" that an incomplete back even w/ big chest and shoulders just doesn't have.

NeoSeminole

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #148 on: July 07, 2008, 03:18:15 PM »
So you do agree that Ronnie's back was not necessarily better in 2001 and 2003 than in 1999? Nice way to shoot yourself in the foot.

umm, is this a joke? I can't tell if you're being serious. You said yourself that Ronnie was harder and more detailed at the 01 ASC and wider and thicker in 03. This translates into their backs also having those attributes. I've never heard of a bodybuilder being harder and more detailed while at the same time his back looks softer and less defined. Perhaps you can give an example since you seem to believe this can happen? ;)

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Detailed, yes. As wide, yes.

fixed

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No, not really. Ronnie's waist was smaller, but since Dorian's lats were wider than Ronnie's at the 2001 ASC, then the taper was about the same.

all I see is talk and no visual evidence to support your claim. There is no reason to think 01 ASC Ronnie's lats weren't as wide as Dorian's judging from the pics.







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But it was lacking in quality. And just stop posting pictures where Dorian has skin folds in his back. For starters, I don't even know if judges mark this down, and secondly, there are several pictures of Ronnie with folds as well - as an example, the famous´picture from the 2003 Olympia where he has folds in his neck. And I repeat: Dorian had no acne in his back in 1995, which is the version of him I prefer, so stop bringing this shit up.

We're talking about the best back of all-time here. If 2 guys have equal width, thickness, and detail but one has bacne and skin folds, then the decision should go to the bodybuilder without any skin imperfections.

Hulkster

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Re: The most complete back of all time...
« Reply #149 on: July 07, 2008, 03:20:46 PM »
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We're talking about the best back of all-time here. If 2 guys have equal width, thickness, and detail but one has bacne and skin folds, then the decision should go to the bodybuilder without any skin imperfections.

not only that but dorian's waist is monster thick compared to Ronnie's
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