Author Topic: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah  (Read 10784 times)

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Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
Saturday, July 05, 2008

Two boys were punished this week for refusing to kneel on prayer mats and worship Allah during a class demonstration on Islam, the Daily Mail reported.

Irate parents said a religious education teacher at the Alsager High School in England told students to wear Muslim headgear during a lesson on Tuesday. "But if Muslims were asked to go to church on Sunday and take Holy Communion, there would be war," the grandfather of one of the students said.

The two boys belong to a class that includes 11- to 12-year-olds, and after their refusal to participate they were given detention, the story says.

Another parent, Karen Williams, told the Mail: "Not only was it forced upon them, my daughter was told off for not doing it right. They'd never done it before and they were supposed to do it in another language."

Deputy Headmaster Keith Plant said the teacher has given her version of the incident but he declined to elaborate.

According to a statement from the Cheshire County Council on behalf of the school: "Educating children in the beliefs of different faith is part of the diversity curriculum on the basis that knowledge is essential to understanding.

"We accept that such teaching is to be conducted with some sense of sensitivity."

Click here to read more on this story in the Daily Mail.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,376746,00.html

Nordic Superman

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2008, 08:16:32 AM »
Should be taken to the highest court in the EU.

The school/teacher do not have any chance.
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haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2008, 04:44:26 PM »
oh boy, doesn't get any funnier than this  ;D

"Two boys were punished this week for refusing to kneel on prayer mats and worship Allah during a class demonstration on Islam"


I'm not sure why the bolded part is necessary, as if "Allah" is another God or something. Atleast fox really likes to make the distinction ;D

Anyway, too lazy to dig up the details, but what was the punishment and what was the exact prayer they were supposed to do?
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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2008, 05:18:26 PM »
oh boy, doesn't get any funnier than this  ;D

"Two boys were punished this week for refusing to kneel on prayer mats and worship Allah during a class demonstration on Islam"


I'm not sure why the bolded part is necessary, as if "Allah" is another God or something. Atleast fox really likes to make the distinction ;D

Anyway, too lazy to dig up the details, but what was the punishment and what was the exact prayer they were supposed to do?
How funny would it be if they asked "haiter" to go to church on Sunday and take Communion?
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2008, 06:45:02 PM »
How funny would it be if they asked "haiter" to go to church on Sunday and take Communion?
I'm not sure what they were required to do, fox news doesn't seem like the most objective source anyways.

I don't see why anyone would be required to do a ritual, especially in a language one doesn't even understand. So I would disagree with that as a teaching method, and i can see why some one would be uncomfortable doing it.

In the Islam class i was in with a friend of mine (infidel), no one was required to go to the mosque but we did make a class trip to the mosque and talk to people there... no one was required to pray, or even stand by the side to watch us pray. Although the women who accompanied us were advised to cover their heads as that is proper etiquette in a mosque- whether u agree with it or not ;D
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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2008, 08:29:09 PM »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1031784/Schoolboys-punished-detention-refusing-kneel-pray-Allah.html

Two schoolboys were given detention after refusing to kneel down and 'pray to Allah' during a religious education lesson.

Parents were outraged that the two boys from year seven (11 to 12-year-olds) were punished for not wanting to take part in the practical demonstration of how Allah is worshipped.

They said forcing their children to take part in the exercise at Alsager High School, near Stoke-on-Trent - which included wearing Muslim headgear - was a breach of their human rights.
 
Alsager School, near Stoke, has received furious complaints from parents after two Year 7 boys were punished for refusing to kneel to Allah during a religious studies class

One parent, Sharon Luinen, said: "This isn't right, it's taking things too far.

"I understand that they have to learn about other religions. I can live with that but it is taking it a step too far to be punished because they wouldn't join in Muslim prayer.

"Making them pray to Allah, who isn't who they worship, is wrong and what got me is that they were told they were being disrespectful.

"I don't want this to look as if I have a problem with the school because I am generally very happy with it."

Another parent Karen Williams said: "I am absolutely furious my daughter was made to take part in it and I don't find it acceptable.

"I haven't got a problem with them teaching my child other religions and a small amount of information doesn't do any harm.

"But not only did they have to pray, the teacher had gone into the class and made them watch a short film and then said 'we are now going out to pray to Allah'.

"Then two boys got detention and all the other children missed their refreshment break because of the teacher.

"Not only was it forced upon them, my daughter was told off for not doing it right.

"They'd never done it before and they were supposed to do it in another language."

"My child has been forced to pray to Allah in a school lesson." The grandfather of one of the pupils in the class said: "It's absolutely disgusting, there's no other way of putting it.

"My daughter and a lot of other mothers are furious about their children being made to kneel on the floor and pray to Islam. If they didn't do it they were given detention.

"I am not racist, I've been friendly with an Indian for 30 years. I've also been to a Muslim wedding where it was explained to me that alcohol would not be served and I respected that.

"But if Muslims were asked to go to church on Sunday and take Holy Communion there would be war."


Parents said that their children were made to bend down on their knees on prayer mats which the RE teacher had got out of her cupboard and they were also told to wear Islamic headgear during the lesson on Tuesday afternoon.

Deputy headmaster Keith Plant said: "It's difficult to know at the moment whether this was part of the curriculum or not. I am not an RE teacher, I am an English teacher.

"At the moment it is our enterprise week and many of our members of staff are away.

"The particular member of staff you need to speak to isn't around. I think that it is a shame that so many parents have got in touch with the Press before coming to me.

"I have spoken to the teacher and she has articulately given me her version of events, but that is all I can give you at the moment."

A statement from Cheshire County Council on behalf of the school read: "The headteacher David Black contacted this authority immediately complaints were received.


"Enquiries are being made into the circumstances as a matter of urgency and all parents will be informed accordingly.

"Educating children in the beliefs of different faith is part of the diversity curriculum on the basis that knowledge is essential to understanding.

"We accept that such teaching is to be conducted with some sense of sensitivity."




sounds more like a jackass instructor trying to assert their control rather than a religious nut, unless the teacher was islamic.

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2008, 12:47:39 AM »
oh boy, doesn't get any funnier than this  ;D

"Two boys were punished this week for refusing to kneel on prayer mats and worship Allah during a class demonstration on Islam"


I'm not sure why the bolded part is necessary, as if "Allah" is another God or something. Atleast fox really likes to make the distinction ;D

Anyway, too lazy to dig up the details, but what was the punishment and what was the exact prayer they were supposed to do?

How is it the same god considering there are two exclusive sources of divinity? (bible, koran).

How can it be the same god if the 2 profess they are gods religion? Still assuming they're the same god because they are monotheist?
الاسلام هو شيطانية

wavelength

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2008, 02:23:42 AM »
If there is a God, there can only be one. That's very simple logic, since the attribute of plural is form-related while God is the formless. If exclusiveness is claimed in a religion, it is either not a valid religion, or the claim has a different meaning, misinterpreted by bigots.

Regarding the Fox News 'report', quite obviously blown out-of-proportion. Probably just a wacky teacher.

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2008, 02:29:32 AM »
If there is a God, there can only be one. That's very simple logic, since the attribute of plural is form-related while God is the formless. If exclusiveness is claimed in a religion, it is either not a valid religion, or the claim has a different meaning, misinterpreted by bigots.

Regarding the Fox News 'report', quite obviously blown out-of-proportion. Probably just a wacky teacher.

Sure, obviously in monotheism there is a single god. But does this god have split personalities? He must have for there to be 3 or more valid sources of divinity.

Having split personalities is quite a human, fallible trait also.
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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2008, 02:30:48 AM »
:o

Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
Saturday, July 05, 2008

Two boys were punished this week for refusing to kneel on prayer mats and worship Allah during a class demonstration on Islam, the Daily Mail reported.

Irate parents said a religious education teacher at the Alsager High School in England told students to wear Muslim headgear during a lesson on Tuesday. "But if Muslims were asked to go to church on Sunday and take Holy Communion, there would be war," the grandfather of one of the students said.

The two boys belong to a class that includes 11- to 12-year-olds, and after their refusal to participate they were given detention, the story says.

Another parent, Karen Williams, told the Mail: "Not only was it forced upon them, my daughter was told off for not doing it right. They'd never done it before and they were supposed to do it in another language."

Deputy Headmaster Keith Plant said the teacher has given her version of the incident but he declined to elaborate.

According to a statement from the Cheshire County Council on behalf of the school: "Educating children in the beliefs of different faith is part of the diversity curriculum on the basis that knowledge is essential to understanding.

"We accept that such teaching is to be conducted with some sense of sensitivity."

Click here to read more on this story in the Daily Mail.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,376746,00.html

How about looking at it like this. If the lesson for that day was learning about other cultures and or religions and they failed to  obey the teacher, they reprimanded for not following instruction. Just as here if the teacher told you to sit down and or stop interrupting class or take notes, one can be reprimanded for that. They were reprimanded for failing to obey a teacher's command.

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2008, 02:37:29 AM »
How about looking at it like this. If the lesson for that day was learning about other cultures and or religions and they failed to  obey the teacher, they reprimanded for not following instruction. Just as here if the teacher told you to sit down and or stop interrupting class or take notes, one can be reprimanded for that. They were reprimanded for failing to obey a teacher's command.

Are you high?

You think anyone should be forced to pray to a God they clearly don't believe in? Totally against their human rights.

You're so left you're going to fall off Mount Delusional.
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wavelength

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2008, 02:38:34 AM »
Sure, obviously in monotheism there is a single god. But does this god have split personalities? He must have for there to be 3 or more valid sources of divinity.

Having split personalities is quite a human, fallible trait also.

As I said, that would be misinterpretation of scripture. All the human claims of exclusiveness such as in 'I'm a beliver, your a non-believer', are made up by the ego. IMO, they are the complete opposite of what spirituality is about.

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2008, 03:03:34 AM »
As I said, that would be misinterpretation of scripture. All the human claims of exclusiveness such as in 'I'm a beliver, your a non-believer', are made up by the ego. IMO, they are the complete opposite of what spirituality is about.

So you believe the obvious contradictions between the 3 Abrahamic religions are just a misinterpretation of scripture?

I was discussing Abrahamic religions not the general spirituality.
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wavelength

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2008, 03:17:25 AM »
So you believe the obvious contradictions between the 3 Abrahamic religions are just a misinterpretation of scripture?

I was discussing Abrahamic religions not the general spirituality.

It's OK to have differences between what I would rather call spiritual traditions than religions. But as soon as you find the spiritual truth in your religion (if there is one, that is), all essential contradictions must dissolve, there's just no way around that. So basically the answer is yes.

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2008, 03:23:46 AM »
It's OK to have differences between what I would rather call spiritual traditions than religions. But as soon as you find the spiritual truth in your religion (if there is one, that is), all essential contradictions must dissolve, there's just no way around that. So basically the answer is yes.

So a religion that sells itself as the infallible word of God, existing since eternity (koran) is not in contradiction to the Bible?

Even though Mary is a virgin, son of God (Jesus) and in the koran Jesus isn't God / Son of God? You see no contradictions here?
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wavelength

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2008, 03:38:10 AM »
So a religion that sells itself as the infallible word of God, existing since eternity (koran) is not in contradiction to the Bible?

I can't say too much about the Koran, since I have never read it. But the claims of infallibility and direct descent from God apparent in many religious scriptures can only relate to the truth behind the words, not the words themselves (the way the truth is pointed to). That's the only possible interpretation which makes any sense.

Even though Mary is a virgin, son of God (Jesus) and in the koran Jesus isn't God / Son of God? You see no contradictions here?

The question of exclusiveness of the prophet of a certain religion is a similar topic. The concept of slavation 'only through the blood of Jesus', e.g. can only relate to the spiritual truth mediated by resp. trough Jesus, not him as a historical person.

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2008, 03:43:06 AM »
I can't say too much about the Koran, since I have never read it. But the claims of infallibility and direct descent from God apparent in many religious scriptures can only relate to the truth behind the words, not the words themselves (the way the truth is pointed to). That's the only possible interpretation which makes any sense.

The koran is a copy of the mother of all books (which has existed by Gods side for eternity). The koran in its current form is a perfect infallible copy of the mother of books, passed to muhammad via the angel gabriel.

The words themselves (some would argue that only the original archaic arabic) are perfection.

The laws of the koran are literal in most cases (sharia - infallible law of god) i.e. homosexuality is punishable via death, 4 muslim witnesses are required in court to substantiate your defence, etc. etc.

How this doesn't contradict other Abramic religions I don't know, no matter how ambiguous YOU want to be, the koran is not, it's definitive.
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wavelength

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2008, 03:54:50 AM »
The koran is a copy of the mother of all books (which has existed by Gods side for eternity). The koran in its current form is a perfect infallible copy of the mother of books, passed to muhammad via the angel gabriel.

The words themselves (some would argue that only the original archaic arabic) are perfection.

The laws of the koran are literal in most cases (sharia - infallible law of god) i.e. homosexuality is punishable via death, 4 muslim witnesses are required in court to substantiate your defence, etc. etc.

How this doesn't contradict other Abramic religions I don't know, no matter how ambiguous YOU want to be, the koran is not, it's definitive.

That's why I always say 'if there is truth in it'. In case of the Koran, I honestly don't know, but would assume that there are essential and unessential parts to it, just like with every other religious scripture. Unfortunally, the bigots often turn to the unessential parts, misinterpret and base their ideology upon them.

AFAIK just like in christianity, there are different interpretations of the Koran. The problem with ancient scripture is always the same: thousands of years of misinterpretations, false translations, change of historic meaning etc.

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2008, 04:05:34 AM »
That's why I always say 'if there is truth in it'. In case of the Koran, I honestly don't know, but would assume that there are essential and unessential parts to it, just like with every other religious scripture. Unfortunally, the bigots often turn to the unessential parts, misinterpret and base their ideology upon them.

AFAIK just like in christianity, there are different interpretations of the Koran. The problem with ancient scripture is always the same: thousands of years of misinterpretations, false translations, change of historic meaning etc.

You assumptions on the koran are incorrect on most accounts.

The koran ITSELF states that is the infallible word of god. It also states that it must be accepted in its entirety.

Islam is an ideology that transcends everything, daily activities, education, laws in general.

The interpretation thing; the are schools of jurisdiction in islam, most agree on a common interpretation that includes death for apostacy, homosexuality and the requirement of 4 MUSLIM witnesses in court to substantiate claims. These have existed since practically the time of muhammad himself.

Chose to look at religions as being not responsible for their messages if you would like, but I think it is a huge error on your part.

Here is a good online copy of the koran: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/ (contains numerous ACCEPTED interpretations in English)
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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2008, 04:10:15 AM »
You assumptions on the koran are incorrect on most accounts.

The koran ITSELF states that is the infallible word of god. It also states that it must be accepted in its entirety.

Islam is an ideology that transcends everything, daily activities, education, laws in general.

The interpretation thing; the are schools of jurisdiction in islam, most agree on a common interpretation that includes death for apostacy, homosexuality and the requirement of 4 MUSLIM witnesses in court to substantiate claims. These have existed since practically the time of muhammad himself.

Chose to luck at religions as being not responsible for their messages if you would like, but I think it is a huge error on your part.

Here is a good online copy of the koran: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/ (contains numerous ACCEPTED interpretations in English)

I'm not here to defend the Koran, as I said, I know little about it. One thing is sure: everything that is ideology rather than spirituallity about it, does not contain any truth.

haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2008, 09:54:24 AM »
How is it the same god considering there are two exclusive sources of divinity? (bible, koran).

How can it be the same god if the 2 profess they are gods religion? Still assuming they're the same god because they are monotheist?
It is not believed that Islam comes from a seperate divine source, and this can be seen in the vast similarities between Islam and Christianity if you are to simply look on the surface.

IMO the major differences are on the level of dogma, like the trinity, origniall sin, etc. but these are beleived by muslims to be corruptions in the original teachings of the christ. Ofcourse, there are other differences, but this is to be expected because the religions existed in a different place, and at a different time.

I find it hilarious that people claiming to be monotheistic would argue over which God is the true God  ;D
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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2008, 10:12:12 AM »
It is not believed that Islam comes from a seperate divine source, and this can be seen in the vast similarities between Islam and Christianity if you are to simply look on the surface.

IMO the major differences are on the level of dogma, like the trinity, origniall sin, etc. but these are beleived by muslims to be corruptions in the original teachings of the christ. Ofcourse, there are other differences, but this is to be expected because the religions existed in a different place, and at a different time.

I find it hilarious that people claiming to be monotheistic would argue over which God is the true God  ;D

Both are plagiarised from Judaism, hence the vast similarity.
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haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2008, 10:15:17 AM »
Both are plagiarised from Judaism, hence the vast similarity.
OK, without pointing to the similarities between the two, do you have any evidence for how Muhammed plagiaraised all of this?  :P
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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2008, 10:48:06 AM »
OK, without pointing to the similarities between the two, do you have any evidence for how Muhammed plagiaraised all of this?  :P

Deicide  is bang on: muhammad plagiarised much of his work from Judaism.

Also, Haider, what's your opinion on this:

In the koran 2 verses may contradict each other. The koran states the latter verse overrides the original verse. Some muslims argue that the koran is infallible (as per the koran itself) so the two contradicting verses must BOTH be correct.

Why is God so fallible? Remember, this is a book that has been beside god since eternity, replicated in the koran PERFECTLY via the angel gabriel.

I speak of this because muslims believe the bible to contain the corruptions of the teachings of Christ.
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haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2008, 10:51:29 AM »
Deicide  is bang on: muhammad plagiarised much of his work from Judaism.

Also, Haider, what's your opinion on this:

In the koran 2 verses may contradict each other. The koran states the latter verse overrides the original verse. Some muslims argue that the koran is infallible (as per the koran itself) so the two contradicting verses must BOTH be correct.

Why is God so fallible? Remember, this is a book that has been beside god since eternity, replicated in the koran PERFECTLY via the angel gabriel.

I speak of this because muslims believe the bible to contain the corruptions of the teachings of Christ.
Show me an example of this, and I will try to answer your query.
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