Author Topic: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah  (Read 10798 times)

Nordic Superman

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2008, 10:57:23 AM »
Show me an example of this, and I will try to answer your query.

An example of plagarism or abrogation?

Plagarism:


Abrogation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(tafsir)
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Parker

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2008, 11:14:53 AM »
Are you high?

You think anyone should be forced to pray to a God they clearly don't believe in? Totally against their human rights.

You're so left you're going to fall off Mount Delusional.

Actually when I wrote that i just got off work around 3am...and I didn't read the full article, now I see diff...

haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2008, 02:16:33 PM »
An example of plagarism or abrogation?

Plagarism:


Abrogation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(tafsir)
I dont have time to read all that shit right now, atleast not for another week :P

Maybe I'll check it out when I'm back home again.

I do know about abrogation a little bit, forgive me for forgetting much of my theological knowledge though ;D One case I can think of off the top my head is the case with prohibition of alcohol- at first it wasnt completely prohibited; only before prayers (I think). This later turned into full prohibition. Explanation: This was done so it would be easier for the believers to give up alcohol, rather than having to give up alcohol cold-turkey, so to speak. So it makes practical sense atleast.
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Nordic Superman

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2008, 03:24:07 PM »
I dont have time to read all that shit right now, atleast not for another week :P

Maybe I'll check it out when I'm back home again.

I do know about abrogation a little bit, forgive me for forgetting much of my theological knowledge though ;D One case I can think of off the top my head is the case with prohibition of alcohol- at first it wasnt completely prohibited; only before prayers (I think). This later turned into full prohibition. Explanation: This was done so it would be easier for the believers to give up alcohol, rather than having to give up alcohol cold-turkey, so to speak. So it makes practical sense atleast.

Jeez, keep telling yourself that, are you that delusional? ???

A week to read the equivalent of 2 pages of A4 and a video 8 minutes long?

P.S. you explanation of the alcohol example shows your infallible gods fallibility. Remember: the koran is the copy of the mother of books, which has been beside god since eternity. It transcends time.
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haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2008, 07:23:15 PM »
Jeez, keep telling yourself that, are you that delusional? ???

A week to read the equivalent of 2 pages of A4 and a video 8 minutes long?

P.S. you explanation of the alcohol example shows your infallible gods fallibility. Remember: the koran is the copy of the mother of books, which has been beside god since eternity. It transcends time.
It doesn't make sense to you?  ???

I guess if not, i can't really convince you other wise. But religion has to be practical, otherwise it would have no use... duh, but i guess it has to be said.
About the wiki page, it seemed to be loaded with information... I'd like to see u put aside time to understand that... much less when you're vacationing :P

I wouldn't want to watch the video around other muslims, they miht get offended and kill me.... u know how they are.
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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2008, 07:31:28 PM »
Not only is Islam a rank plagiarism, it is also historically inaccurate.

The Heights: 7:124 Surely I shall have your hands and feet cut off upon alternate sides. Then I shall crucify you every one.

Ta Ha: 20:71 (Pharaoh) said: Ye put faith in him before I give you leave. Lo! he is your chief who taught you magic. Now surely I shall cut off your hands and your feet alternately, and I shall crucify you on the trunks of palm trees, and ye shall know for certain which of us hath sterner and more lasting punishment.

Crucifixion was a Roman punishment and was not practised by the Egyptians, yet it is referred to multiple times. Allah isn't much of a historian apparently.

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Nordic Superman

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2008, 03:44:28 AM »
It doesn't make sense to you?  ???

I guess if not, i can't really convince you other wise. But religion has to be practical, otherwise it would have no use... duh, but i guess it has to be said.
About the wiki page, it seemed to be loaded with information... I'd like to see u put aside time to understand that... much less when you're vacationing :P

I wouldn't want to watch the video around other muslims, they miht get offended and kill me.... u know how they are.

No, it sounds like an excuse not reasoning.
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haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2008, 06:01:58 AM »
Not only is Islam a rank plagiarism, it is also historically inaccurate.

The Heights: 7:124 Surely I shall have your hands and feet cut off upon alternate sides. Then I shall crucify you every one.

Ta Ha: 20:71 (Pharaoh) said: Ye put faith in him before I give you leave. Lo! he is your chief who taught you magic. Now surely I shall cut off your hands and your feet alternately, and I shall crucify you on the trunks of palm trees, and ye shall know for certain which of us hath sterner and more lasting punishment.

Crucifixion was a Roman punishment and was not practised by the Egyptians, yet it is referred to multiple times. Allah isn't much of a historian apparently.


Crucifixion was not uniquely a roman punishment, i don't think.
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Nordic Superman

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2008, 06:03:45 AM »
Crucifixion was not uniquely a roman punishment, i don't think.

What? Evidence? Or are you basing that on a personal whim? ???
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haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2008, 06:15:23 AM »
What? Evidence? Or are you basing that on a personal whim? ???
Not that evidence was provided for the first statement..

I'm the shittiest historian you'll find, so I'm the kinda guy that looks up something on wikipedia to look for historical information... according to wiki, crucifixion was " in use particularly among the Persians, Seleucids, Carthaginians, and Romans from about the 6th century BC to the 4th century AD"

On Pre-roman crucifioxion:
"[edit] Pre-Roman States
Crucifixion (or impalement), in one form or another, was used by Persians, Greeks, Carthaginians, Macedonians and Romans. Death was often hastened. "The attending Roman guards could only leave the site after the victim had died, and were known to precipitate death by means of deliberate fracturing of the tibia and/or fibula, spear stab wounds into the heart, sharp blows to the front of the chest, or a smoking fire built at the foot of the cross to asphyxiate the victim."[23]

Some Christian theologians, beginning with Paul of Tarsus writing in Galatians 3:13, have interpreted an allusion to crucifixion in Deuteronomy 21:22-23. This reference is to being hanged from a tree, and may be associated with lynching or traditional hanging. However, ancient Jewish law allowed only 4 methods of execution: stoning, burning, strangulation, and decapitation. Crucifixion was thus forbidden by ancient Jewish law.[24]

Alexander the Great is reputed to have executed 2000 survivors from his siege of the Phoenician city of Tyre, as well as the doctor who unsuccessfully treated Alexander's friend Hephaestion. Some historians have also conjectured that Alexander crucified Callisthenes, his official historian and biographer, for objecting to Alexander's adoption of the Persian ceremony of royal adoration.

In Carthage, crucifixion was an established mode of execution, which could even be imposed on a general for suffering a major defeat."
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Nordic Superman

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2008, 07:32:45 AM »
Where's the evidence of Egyptian crucifixion in that body of text?
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haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2008, 07:41:56 AM »
Where's the evidence of Egyptian crucifixion in that body of text?
The point is (my point) that crucifixion wouldn't be an unfamiliar concept before the Romans..
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Nordic Superman

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2008, 08:34:02 AM »
The point is (my point) that crucifixion wouldn't be an unfamiliar concept before the Romans..

Well, the koran specifically says Egyptians, of which there is no evidence provided by you.

You as a muslim must accept what the koran has to say 100%, we do not, we're in the position to be impartial and say confidently "crucifixion was mostly likely not used by Egyptians" we're are not bound by scripture in our search for truth.

I wait upon your responses to abrogation and evidence that Egyptians used crucifixion as an method of execution.
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haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2008, 03:00:18 PM »
Well, the koran specifically says Egyptians, of which there is no evidence provided by you.
what does the quote say again, what is it you're exactly arguing? No where does it imply in the verse that this was a common practice by the egyptians, or that it was used at all!

You guys should atleast read the verses before you make an objection, lol!
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Nordic Superman

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2008, 03:24:46 PM »
Pharaoh, palm trees, mention of being Egyptian?

Still come up with anything regarding abrogation squire?
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haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2008, 03:34:27 PM »
Pharaoh, palm trees, mention of being Egyptian?
whatever..

look it up if u want to, i didn't make any assertions regarding crucifixion by egyptians, only said that such punishments did exist prior to the Romans. If you want to positively say that this is not the case, then maybe you should provide evidence for this?

I did manage to get this muslim reply to this supposed contradiction pointed out by christians here, i skimmed through it a little bit... like i said before i don;t really care to read through long pages right now. If you want to debate this in a detailed manner we can do that later, until then you can read this:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/crucify.html
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Nordic Superman

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2008, 03:40:22 PM »
whatever..

look it up if u want to, i didn't make any assertions regarding crucifixion by egyptians, only said that such punishments did exist prior to the Romans. If you want to positively say that this is not the case, then maybe you should provide evidence for this?

I did manage to get this muslim reply to this supposed contradiction pointed out by christians here, i skimmed through it a little bit... like i said before i don;t really care to read through long pages right now. If you want to debate this in a detailed manner we can do that later, until then you can read this:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/crucify.html


Right I made the assertion that you provided no evidence for Egyptians doing it.

P.S. the article you gave just tells me that the author wants to reader to think impaling people in the genitals somehow is crucifixion. Hate to break it to you, man has been prodding each other with sharp sticks since day one - crucifixion is very specific.
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haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2008, 03:58:32 PM »
Right I made the assertion that you provided no evidence for Egyptians doing it.

P.S. the article you gave just tells me that the author wants to reader to think impaling people in the genitals somehow is crucifixion. Hate to break it to you, man has been prodding each other with sharp sticks since day one - crucifixion is very specific.

The original assertion was that Egyptians did NOT use it, even though the punishment WAS indeed used before the Romans did. Where is the evidence for that?
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haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2008, 04:00:37 PM »
My other argument: The idea of crucifixion might have been familiar to the Egyptians. So even though they may not have practiced it, surely one could make references to it- which is what the pharoh is doing in the verses.
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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2008, 08:32:43 PM »
My other argument: The idea of crucifixion might have been familiar to the Egyptians. So even though they may not have practiced it, surely one could make references to it- which is what the pharoh is doing in the verses.

Egyptian history is fairly well documented. It does not mention crucifixion.
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haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2008, 09:05:31 PM »
Egyptian history is fairly well documented. It does not mention crucifixion.
are you a 100% sure?
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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2008, 09:23:25 PM »
are you a 100% sure?

No; I will try and do some extra research on it.
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haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2008, 09:35:24 PM »
No; I will try and do some extra research on it.
I do appreciatte your honesty. I'm currently reading the link i posted for nordick.
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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2008, 09:50:18 PM »
I do appreciatte your honesty. I'm currently reading the link i posted for nordick.

Anyway...off to work now.
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haider

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Re: Report: Schoolboys Get Detention for Refusing to Pray to Allah
« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2008, 10:02:20 PM »
From what i bothered to understand in the link; it is hard to have a restrictive definition of crucifxion archaelogically due to the diverse ways in which this punishment was used- this would include impalement, which was a punishment used by the egyptians (evidence in the link).

My personal note: crucifxion is the english translation from Qur'anic arabic, so i don't even know if that translation is 100% appropriatte.
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