Author Topic: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal  (Read 2038 times)

OzmO

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Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« on: July 07, 2008, 11:18:43 AM »

Considering my extreme opposition to this war, I see this as a good thing that we are legitimately talking about withdrawal on terms that's satisfactory or do-able to all entities.

If the Iraqi government can control the country, good.  Let's leave, save a few bases.   :)


http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL0353522920080707?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true


By Dean Yates and Ahmed Rasheed

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki raised the prospect on Monday of setting a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. troops as part of negotiations over a new security agreement with Washington.

It was the first time the U.S.-backed Shi'ite-led government has floated the idea of a timetable for the removal of American forces from Iraq. The Bush administration has always opposed such a move, saying it would give militant groups an advantage.

The security deal under negotiation will replace a U.N. mandate for the presence of U.S. troops that expires on December 31.

"Today, we are looking at the necessity of terminating the foreign presence on Iraqi lands and restoring full sovereignty," Maliki told Arab ambassadors in blunt remarks during an official visit to Abu Dhabi, capital of the United Arab Emirates.

"One of the two basic topics is either to have a memorandum of understanding for the departure of forces or a memorandum of understanding to set a timetable for the presence of the forces, so that we know (their presence) will end in a specific time."

Maliki was responding to questions from the ambassadors about the security negotiations with the United States. The exchange was shown on Iraqiya state television.

U.S. officials in Baghdad had no immediate comment. Last month Maliki caught Washington off guard when he said talks on the security deal were at a "dead end" after he complained Iraq's sovereignty was being infringed by U.S. demands.

Both sides later said progress was being made.

Maliki said the Iraqi and U.S. positions had gotten closer, but added "we cannot talk about reaching an agreement yet".

He said foreign forces would need Iraqi permission for many of their activities once the U.N. mandate ended.

"This means the phenomena of unilateral detention will be over, as well as unilateral operations and immunity," he said.

Maliki did not clarify who the immunity referred to.

Officials have said contractors working for the U.S. government would lose immunity from Iraqi law, but Washington is highly unlikely to let the same thing happen to U.S. solders.

MALIKI WOOS ARAB STATES

Maliki, dismissed as weak and ineffective for most of his tenure since taking over as prime minister in May 2006, has been increasingly assertive in recent months.

He has launched crackdowns on Shi'ite militias and also al Qaeda, with U.S. forces playing a mainly supporting role.

He has also called on Arab states to re-engage with Iraq.

Sunni Arab countries have long been reluctant to extend full legitimacy to the Iraqi government because of the U.S. presence, as well as Baghdad's close ties to non-Arab, Shi'ite Iran.

But Arab ties have begun to improve.

The United Arab Emirates has cancelled almost $7 billion of debt owed by Baghdad, officials said on Sunday. And Jordan's King Abdullah is expected to visit Baghdad this week, the first Arab leader to do so since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003.

Maliki did not specifically refer to the 150,000 American troops in Iraq, but they comprise the vast bulk of foreign forces in the country.

He indicated the memorandum of understanding would be used instead of the formal Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) being negotiated. The MoU could be a stop-gap measure given some of the difficulties getting a full SOFA deal in place.

Iraqi officials had said they would submit any SOFA to parliament, where it might be subject to long and bitter debate.

Maliki has long come under pressure from the movement of powerful Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr to set a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. forces. Sadr's movement quit Maliki's government last year when the prime minister refused to do so.

Luwaa Sumaisem, head of the Sadr bloc's political committee, welcomed Maliki's comments on possibly setting a timetable.

"This is a step in the right direction and we are ready to support him in this objective. We hope Maliki will show seriousness about it," Sumaisem said, without saying if the movement might then consider rejoining the government.

Washington and Baghdad are also negotiating a separate long-term agreement on political, economic and security ties.

After five years in Iraq, the Bush administration had set an end-July target for wrapping up the negotiations. Some Iraqi officials had questioned whether the deadline could be met.

(Additional reporting by Ahmed Rasheed and Tim Cocks in Baghdad and Lin Noueihed in Abu Dhabi, Editing by Stephen Weeks)

shootfighter1

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2008, 11:49:59 AM »
Hope things are improving enough that we can start withdrawing troops this yr.

Dos Equis

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2008, 12:03:43 PM »
Good.  I saw a report this morning talking about the Joint Chiefs chair visting Iraq and how much things have improved. 

OzmO

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2008, 12:42:34 PM »
It's a great thing if it happens.
 
Took long enough. 

It's also nice to hear the Iraqi government's voice.

headhuntersix

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2008, 01:48:46 PM »
1 big base at Ballad and one Div with are assests rotating annually, by 2011. thats what everbody wants. We won't be able to conduct offensive operations without Iraq approval by next year...thats the plan. The dems didn't work this out....P4 and the surge made this happen. The US military meade this happen, not the suckass defeatist dems....now its time to come home.
L

OzmO

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2008, 02:20:12 PM »
1 big base at Ballad and one Div with are assests rotating annually, by 2011. thats what everbody wants. We won't be able to conduct offensive operations without Iraq approval by next year...thats the plan. The dems didn't work this out....P4 and the surge made this happen. The US military meade this happen, not the suckass defeatist dems....now its time to come home.

In all fairness the democrats don't make military decisions.   ;D

And I'd think you do agree, this war/insurgency could have been over much much sooner.

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2008, 02:38:05 PM »
The US military meade this happen, not the suckass defeatist dems....now its time to come home.

  Mammoth attempt to shift the responsibility of Bush and his flunkies onto the shoulders of the dems.

  That being said, the Iraqis are long overdue to take over their country and let our kids come the hell back home.

headhuntersix

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2008, 03:41:08 PM »
  Mammoth attempt to shift the responsibility of Bush and his flunkies onto the shoulders of the dems.

  That being said, the Iraqis are long overdue to take over their country and let our kids come the hell back home.

Nope no shifting at all....the admin has made plenty of mistakes and the Dems rooted for the enemy the whole way. Please don't make me post an entire litany of defeatist statements by the dems, on the surge. At no time in our history has the leadership of a political party completely tried to undermine military operations...and US foreign policy. Not even Vietnam. U have a million statements on how the surge would or was failing, u have major media outlets paroting the same, giving aid an comfort via "leaks", supposed civil rights groups petioning for the rights of enemy combatants, political leaders meeting with rogie nations....the list is endless and won't be forgotten. 
L

OzmO

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2008, 04:25:10 PM »
s and the Dems rooted for the enemy the whole way. 

You are a poster-boy for successful brainwashing. 
Quote
Please don't make me post an entire litany of defeatist statements by the dems, on the surge. At no time in our history has the leadership of a political party completely tried to undermine military operations...and US foreign policy

If you want to call 3000+ deaths and no end in sight as the reason for a lack of confidence and open criticism defeatist statments and undermining then you are again a poster-boy.

Quote
Not even Vietnam. U have a million statements on how the surge would or was failing, u have major media outlets paroting the same, giving aid an comfort via "leaks", supposed civil rights groups petioning for the rights of enemy combatants, political leaders meeting with rogie nations....the list is endless and won't be forgotten.

You weren't even alive during vietnam.   Quit it.  You don't know all the statements made by the opposition to the vietnam war and in the end, the war was ended.  You don't know the civil unrest and how vets were spit on and called child murderers.   

Unplug from your programing for just a bit and take a walk in the real world.


OzmO

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2008, 04:28:14 PM »
It's unbelievable that some of us have become so manipulated by political ideologies that we would actually think an opposing party was rooting for the enemy.

PATHETIC.

SAD.

DISGUSTING.

Fury

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2008, 04:31:54 PM »
It's unbelievable that some of us have become so manipulated by political ideologies that we would actually think an opposing party was rooting for the enemy.

PATHETIC.

SAD.

DISGUSTING.

There are multiple posts on here where members are claiming that they hope other members are killed by IEDs and roadside bombs. Sounds like rooting for the enemy to me.

OzmO

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2008, 04:36:11 PM »
There are multiple posts on here where members are claiming that they hope other members are killed by IEDs and roadside bombs. Sounds like rooting for the enemy to me.

He's talking about the democratic party, i think.  Not the extreme libs on this board who were for the most part, from what i could tell, just using it as an insult.

Fury

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2008, 04:37:35 PM »
He's talking about the democratic party, i think.  Not the extreme libs on this board who were for the most part, from what i could tell, just using it as an insult.

Bold claim. Benny is a nation of Islam member. I wouldn't doubt that he would like to see Sharia Law implemented in the US.

OzmO

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2008, 04:43:48 PM »
Bold claim. Benny is a nation of Islam member. I wouldn't doubt that he would like to see Sharia Law implemented in the US.

Well i can't speak for Benny, as i don't usually read his posts so often, until he just called me an idiot......lol.   

But if he's a muslim why is he supporting helping AIDS victims?  Isn't homosexuals not part of Islam?

I was listening to Savage the other day (i don't like the guy or what he says usually) but he was talking about 13th century muslims and he was making a point that they were more civilized then they are today.

So if Benny wants that, he's a nut job.

headhuntersix

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2008, 07:26:33 PM »
You are a poster-boy for successful brainwashing. 
If you want to call 3000+ deaths and no end in sight as the reason for a lack of confidence and open criticism defeatist statments and undermining then you are again a poster-boy.

You weren't even alive during vietnam.   Quit it.  You don't know all the statements made by the opposition to the vietnam war and in the end, the war was ended.  You don't know the civil unrest and how vets were spit on and called child murderers.   

Unplug from your programing for just a bit and take a walk in the real world.



Well i was born in 1974..my dad flew 2 tours from 1970-1973...my Uncle was there in 1969, that and the massive book collection I have have filled in the picture. The Civil unrest of do mainly to the draft and confined to the coasts and academia, plus a Civil rights movement that got rolled into it. After Tet we had the war won, not my view bu that of the NVA. The dems would not allow Westmoreland to go on the offensive. Flash forward to 2007. How many statements did the litanny of shitbag dem congressmen make about the Surge


On January 10, 2007, Barack Obama argued: "I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse."...GOOD JOB DUMBASS

Democrats like John “ABSCAM” Murtha are not only saying that such progress is irrelevant, but that we’re doomed to be defeated anyway.

The surge hasn’t accomplished its goals,” Reid said. “… We’re involved, still, in an intractable civil war.”



L

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2008, 07:28:43 PM »
I'm frankly confused about the Iraq exit thing...

we're expired ala UN agreement on Dec 31st...

What if Iraq just tells us to leave then?  What if no agreement is in place?

headhuntersix

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2008, 07:35:01 PM »
The SOFA will be in place by then....and this won't be over by December. They have vitually no air support and minor arty....once they can do that, this will progress.
L

OzmO

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2008, 07:36:54 PM »
Well i was born in 1974..my dad flew 2 tours from 1970-1973...my Uncle was there in 1969, that and the massive book collection I have have filled in the picture. The Civil unrest of do mainly to the draft and confined to the coasts and academia, plus a Civil rights movement that got rolled into it. After Tet we had the war won, not my view bu that of the NVA. The dems would not allow Westmoreland to go on the offensive. Flash forward to 2007. How many statements did the litanny of shitbag dem congressmen make about the Surge


On January 10, 2007, Barack Obama argued: "I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse."...GOOD JOB DUMBASS

Democrats like John “ABSCAM” Murtha are not only saying that such progress is irrelevant, but that we’re doomed to be defeated anyway.

The surge hasn’t accomplished its goals,” Reid said. “… We’re involved, still, in an intractable civil war.”



How are those statements translated into:  
"the Dems rooted for the enemy the whole way"

Those are opposing view points and criticisms of the planned solution.  I had my doubts.  Does that mean i rooted for the enemy?

This is what i'm talking here HH6.  I don't think you even realize you are saying it.

Regarding Vietnam.  

Carpet bombing from b-52's out of Guam brought NV to the negotiating table in 1971-72. &guy blew it there.  I agree, we were fighting with our hands tied.  My father served in Vietnam in 1969 also (1 tour).  Retired military E-8 Retired Civil Service GS-15





headhuntersix

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2008, 07:42:02 PM »
Ur not an elected leader...u can say what u want. U don't hold the power to allocate funds or withold them. Ozmo...nobody on the right was saying publically the Surge would fail...i should have given a time frame for some of these quotes..most were before the damm thing even started.
In any event my old man flew B-52's on those missions..ur dad was there when we had the damm thing about won. After TET the Vietcong were done as an effective fighting force. The NVA thought about a surrender, but the media painted another picture and things dragged on. Imagine had we bombed in 1969, like we did in the 70's. Done....

L

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2008, 07:48:25 PM »
Ur not an elected leader...u can say what u want. U don't hold the power to allocate funds or withold them. Ozmo...nobody on the right was saying publically the Surge would fail...i should have given a time frame for some of these quotes..most were before the damm thing even started.

But that doesn't make them "root" for the enemy.  If anything it's only political posturing in the event it does fail.  That's what free speech is about.   If some of these dems directly said:  I hope the enemy wins.  Then your statement:

"the Dems rooted for the enemy the whole way"

.........Would hold water.   They thought it wouldn't work.  Doesn't mean they are rooting for the enemy.  Geez.


Also, if your Dad flew B-52's there's a better then even chance they talked on the radio.    Also, the media didn't cause the war to go on after 1968 dude as you are inffering.  the Vietcong did.   :)    Anyways, didn't we win every major engagement we ever had with the NVA? 

headhuntersix

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2008, 07:24:27 AM »
The media sure as hell did.....U had the VC in the embassy fighting...but we stopped em....u had the battle of HUE, looked bad but the media never said how Leftist that city was and the easiest of the Southern cities to infiltrate. That said the VC got crushed at Hue, crushed at Khe Sahn, crushed during many of the smaller battles during Tet. Soon after the US had enough intel to say that the VC were done, the NVA had pulled support and also were close to being done. Westmoreland wanted to launch a summer offensive, completely with bombing the North and finish the job. The NVA said that even had they somehow been able to hold off that operation, they would have had to sue for peace. The only thing that kept them going was what the American media was reporting....we were losing. Its hard to report  victories when u have the pics they did, from Tet. Yet we won that battle/battles. Ozmo....what some dems have said has given aid and comfort to the enemy, regardless of intent. It was an overstatement to get a conversation going. The rethoric from Vietnam was not near as bad....from the pols.
L

OzmO

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2008, 08:22:43 AM »
The media sure as hell did.....U had the VC in the embassy fighting...but we stopped em....u had the battle of HUE, looked bad but the media never said how Leftist that city was and the easiest of the Southern cities to infiltrate. That said the VC got crushed at Hue, crushed at Khe Sahn, crushed during many of the smaller battles during Tet. Soon after the US had enough intel to say that the VC were done, the NVA had pulled support and also were close to being done. Westmoreland wanted to launch a summer offensive, completely with bombing the North and finish the job. The NVA said that even had they somehow been able to hold off that operation, they would have had to sue for peace. The only thing that kept them going was what the American media was reporting....we were losing. Its hard to report  victories when u have the pics they did, from Tet. Yet we won that battle/battles.

You really have some twisted thinking HH6.  You blame the media for the Veitnam war continuing?  unbelievable.  Aren't you the one that was on here lecturing everyone about the difference between an insurgency and a real war about a year ago?  American policy, what ever that was, prevented us from waging war the way we'd like to.  In the mean time, the VC had plenty of capability after the tet offensive.  Did any US soldiers die after the tet offensive due to VC attacks? 

In fact from 1968 to 1972 37,000+ US soldiers died.  (the majority of the 58,000 who did die.)
http://www.archives.gov/research/vietnam-war/casualty-statistics.html

Yes maybe the NVA couldn't conduct offensive operations, but the VC were doing just fine killing our soldiers for the next 5 years after and then disappearing into tunnels afterwards.

Quote
Ozmo....what some dems have said has given aid and comfort to the enemy, regardless of intent. It was an overstatement to get a conversation going. The rethoric from Vietnam was not near as bad....from the pols.

It was an overstatement?   That's a bit of an understatement.  ;D  Left unchecked, you continue to spew that crap out as if its true.  And what's worse you believe it to the point of that crap affecting your objectivity.  That's the republican propaganda machine is effect.  (not that there isn't a liberal one too.)

And it is still an over statement that a person voicing their opinion about a solution gives "aid and comfort" to the enemy.  It's rare that a solution/course of action will have unanimous approval.  Even in WW2 after pearl harbor.  That doesn't mean, they are "aiding and comforting" the enemy.   "aiding and comforting the enemy".........that sounds so stupid.

Further more,  "aiding"????   What do you think the dem were doing?  Passing secrets to the enemy?  Sending them food?  OMG.



headhuntersix

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2008, 08:40:28 AM »
Dude...I don;t know ho much u know about the war...but the VC were done after the Tet offensive as an effective fighting force...yes they still killed people but as far as mounting major combat operations that could destabilize the South, they were done. This was a 2nd order intent by the North, they didn't want to have to give the VC a piece of the pie.

I blame the media for reporting what they thought was going on rather then what did happen...nice revisionist thinking. What u think I came up with this myself..out of some Republican manuel......study history, read some books. The North was going throw in the towel until the media swung public opinion against the war.

Tet was also extremely costly for the Vietnamese nationalist forces, especially for the NLF. The anticipated urban uprisings that the attacks were meant to inspire did not happen. Moreover, in addition to the tremendous casualties they suffered in the attempt to take and hold cities (around 40,000, according to one estimate), the absence of NLF fighters in the villages exposed their rural bases to attack. According to historian Marilyn Young, "In Long An province, for example, local guerrillas taking part in the May--June offensive had been divided into several sections. Only 775 out of 2,018 in one section survived; another lost all but 640 out of 1,430. The province itself was subjected to what one historian has called a ëMy Lai from the Sky'--non-stop B-52 bombing."
L

OzmO

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2008, 09:14:29 AM »
Dude...I don;t know ho much u know about the war...but the VC were done after the Tet offensive as an effective fighting force...yes they still killed people but as far as mounting major combat operations that could destabilize the South, they were done. This was a 2nd order intent by the North, they didn't want to have to give the VC a piece of the pie.

I blame the media for reporting what they thought was going on rather then what did happen...nice revisionist thinking. What u think I came up with this myself..out of some Republican manuel......study history, read some books. The North was going throw in the towel until the media swung public opinion against the war.

Tet was also extremely costly for the Vietnamese nationalist forces, especially for the NLF. The anticipated urban uprisings that the attacks were meant to inspire did not happen. Moreover, in addition to the tremendous casualties they suffered in the attempt to take and hold cities (around 40,000, according to one estimate), the absence of NLF fighters in the villages exposed their rural bases to attack. According to historian Marilyn Young, "In Long An province, for example, local guerrillas taking part in the May--June offensive had been divided into several sections. Only 775 out of 2,018 in one section survived; another lost all but 640 out of 1,430. The province itself was subjected to what one historian has called a ëMy Lai from the Sky'--non-stop B-52 bombing."



I don't think you got the media thing out of the republican manual, maybe instead you got the "dems rooting for the enemy" from it.  ;D


re:  Color television and America waking up to the lunacy of it's citizens dying thousands of miles away certainly played a part in the war's opposition. but it wasn't the opposition that extended it, otherwise it would still be going on.  :).  What extended it was our unwillingness to fight it the way it should have been fought:  Full force. 

headhuntersix

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Re: Iraq says may agree timetable for U.S. withdrawal
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2008, 12:33:56 PM »
Ok I don't think we're far off...............my dad mentioned alot about his maps having lines through areas all over downtown Hanoi, that they could not touch. They could not smoke the supply ships from Russia.................t here was alot we could not do...............
L