Author Topic: To small to get started  (Read 9804 times)

candidizzle

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2008, 07:31:49 PM »
How many years did you train before you tried them?
3 years bro

Jeffro

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2008, 07:36:55 PM »
3 years bro
Thanks big man 8)

You think it's worth it?  Have you seen good results?

candidizzle

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2008, 07:39:44 PM »
Thanks big man 8)

You think it's worth it?  Have you seen good results?
i cant tell you if its going to be worth it for you dude. so many factors to consider.

personally my results are about what i expected. nothing too dramatic, but not dissapointed either.

i will tell you one thing... if your anything like me.. once you "take the plunge", you wont be going back.

Jeffro

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2008, 07:48:15 PM »
Ok cool man, thanks :)

OTHstrong

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2008, 08:26:33 PM »
I`ve been training since I was 13 and started juicing when I was 23 and now I am 26. My reason was so I can compete, a year and a half later I won my first competition I ever entered, light-heavy and overall. Since I want to turn pro now I won`t be getting off the juice any time soon, so for me its worth it. Everybody`s different and you obviously have reasons of your own to cross over, but I will say this... Steroids will do next to nothing if you aren`t dieting correctly ( for size or definition) and your training is off. It will only do its part if you do yours. A lot of people are under the impression that their going to look like the guys in mags from juicing and all they get is a big wakeup call. Not trying to discourage you, just advising you to get every other aspect about building muscle and losing fat down pat first.
 
Hope this helps.

Jeffro

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2008, 08:29:32 PM »
I`ve been training since I was 13 and started juicing when I was 23 and now I am 26. My reason was so I can compete, a year and a half later I won my first competition I ever entered, light-heavy and overall. Since I want to turn pro now I won`t be getting off the juice any time soon, so for me its worth it. Everybody`s different and you obviously have reasons of your own to cross over, but I will say this... Steroids will do next to nothing if you aren`t dieting correctly ( for size or definition) and your training is off. It will only do its part if you do yours. A lot of people are under the impression that their going to look like the guys in mags from juicing and all they get is a big wakeup call. Not trying to discourage you, just advising you to get every other aspect about building muscle and losing fat down pat first.
 
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the advice man, much appreciated.  Congrats on your competitions and good luck.

Arnold jr

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2008, 09:50:31 PM »
Local Hero. Thats a big help mate thanks. When you say 'nothing fancy' regarding the gym. Were you reffering to resistance machines or what exercises. Theres defo some stuff I could do with throwing out of my workout. Also was wondering if you lot are eating big food, how many protein shakes are you chucking in aswel, is it the usual 3 per day. Cheers

Like everyone is saying, you're not eating nearly enough. IMO, a male trying to add size should be eating a minimum of 6 meals per day, all meals should be relatively equal in size, i.e. calorie intake, protein, etc.

If you eat this much and eventually stop gaining again, bump it up to 8 meals per day. Of course some guys can't eat that many meals or they got too fat...but most anyone can eat 6 and be fine.

Try this for now:

6 meals per day
50g of protein per meal meat, protein powder, eggs etc.
All meals spaced out evenly
50 carbs per meal...oats, rice, etc.
20g fat per meal...good fats only...nuts, PB, lean beef, fish oil, etc.
Immediately following your workout, 50g of protein isolate powder, 50-75g fast acting carbs, i.e. waxy maze, virtigo, etc. This counts as a meal.
Add PB to your shakes, 2-3 tbsp per shake...these count as meals. Forgo PB in post workout shake IMO. Have your post workout shake and eat next meal 45-60min later.

Feel free to enjoy a little junk food as well. Have at least one meal per wk. Since you're naturally lean from the sound of things, feel free to have a few more now and then. Limit it to one per day, but not every day IMO...find a balance. Most meals should be clean.

Like I said, if this does not work, bump it up to 8 meals per day. BTW, this will work.

candidizzle

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2008, 09:52:36 PM »
i dont want to make this into a debate about nutrition, but in my opinion you definitely dont want to combine carbs and fats like that.


but lets not confuse steve with too much details.. EAT , STEVE, EAT !!

local hero

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2008, 02:52:37 AM »
well i want to argue this.... theres nothing wrong with havn fats and carbs in the same meals, its complete bullshit

im sure im goin to get a page long response with some amazing sceintific facts,,, but just think about it logicly, surely balanced meals are better for your body, just in a common sence way..

im not the only one to think so, all the local top amatures, the 3 brit pro's i know, they all eat balanced meals, there all in great shape.. i eat the same, ive done my fair share of shows, and best ive ever looked is eating this way

people should stop tryin to make things more complicated than they need to be

Luolamies

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2008, 04:09:08 AM »
After how many years of training, or at what age, is the ideal time for someone to start juicing?  This question is for anyone.

I had been training for 7 years and i was 20 years old. 107 kg's. I know that most think that they train hard, they don't. Most guys also think that they eat enough, truth is they don't.

As for you new guy do stuff like heavy presses and squats in the gym.

BTW: If you feel that you are not hungry, do what i do, eat anyway and if you feel like staying at home and not going to the gym go anyway...

As far as food goes, try something like this:

wake up: six whole eggs (you can drink them, if you live in the real world and not some 3rd world country, from your post i think that you're from UK.)
go back to sleep if you can

+1 hour BIG breakfast, with plenty of carbs
+2 hours large steak and lot of potatoes
+2 hours large protein shake with milk
+2 hours half a chicken and plenty of rice
+2 hours protein shake
+2 hours large steak + potatoes
+2 hours large steak

Also eat omegas, vitamins and some bread to get fiber.
If you are working and cant get the steak or chicken it's OK to eat at MCD's just make sure you eat enough. Sorry if i sounded like an a-hole, but you need shaking up. Also many will disagree with this "plan" but i don't care since i'm propably twice their size anyway... And no offense but i have a 13-year old brother who has been training allmost two years and he eats about three times more than you do, so if you want you can do it. If you don't have enough money just sell your car, house whatever... the point is there is no excuses.
TEST+DECA+DBOL=BIG

candidizzle

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2008, 08:27:13 AM »
well i want to argue this.... theres nothing wrong with havn fats and carbs in the same meals, its complete bullshit


people should stop tryin to make things more complicated than they need to be
simple =   carbs release insulin. insulin is a storeage hormone. where do fats store?

  also, most fats decrease insulin sensitivity.




but this is neither here nor there, it doesnt matter to steve, he just needs to eat more

local hero

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2008, 09:36:53 AM »
well tell me this,, if thats the case how can some of the best conditioned bodies follow the old routine, protien, carbs and fats in each meal... if its such a bad thing,, how did they look so good,, how did i get ripped eating fats and carbs in 8 meals everyday???????

candidizzle

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2008, 11:22:07 AM »
well tell me this,, if thats the case how can some of the best conditioned bodies follow the old routine, protien, carbs and fats in each meal... if its such a bad thing,, how did they look so good,, how did i get ripped eating fats and carbs in 8 meals everyday???????
if you want a lesson in nutrition you can shoot me a p.m. or you can start a thread in the nutrition section. i should never have said anything in this thread t begin with; but i thought me saying " i dont want to get into a debate about nutrition" would have sufficed.

Steve

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2008, 11:33:56 AM »
Thanks for all of your advice. It all helps loads. Youv all said mainly the same thing EAT MORE. So thats what Im looking at for the next few months.

local hero

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2008, 03:39:45 PM »
if you want a lesson in nutrition you can shoot me a p.m. or you can start a thread in the nutrition section. i should never have said anything in this thread t begin with; but i thought me saying " i dont want to get into a debate about nutrition" would have sufficed.

soon as u step on stage and actualy place in a show u can teach me all u want to know about nutrition, training or your steroid theories

until then........

candidizzle

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2008, 03:48:24 PM »
soon as u step on stage and actualy place in a show u can teach me all u want to know about nutrition, training or your steroid theories

until then........
::)  hey bro, ive got no animosity towards you. kep your hate and your negative comments on the g&o.  if you have some kind of factual information you want to post up to contradict soemthing i say then go ahead, but the petty little remarks about personal experience...when you have no proof of ANY experience... is pretty lame.

IAMTHEGAME

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2008, 04:22:48 PM »
::)  hey bro, ive got no animosity towards you. kep your hate and your negative comments on the g&o.  if you have some kind of factual information you want to post up to contradict soemthing i say then go ahead, but the petty little remarks about personal experience...when you have no proof of ANY experience... is pretty lame.

When have you ever posted anything factual (other than cut and paste) on this board or any other board for that matter...It seems like you can have an opinion on anything and everything but when someone else's opinion does not agree wiith yours you cry hate or proof/facts...IMO

candidizzle

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2008, 04:36:19 PM »
When have you ever posted anything factual (other than cut and paste) on this board or any other board for that matter...It seems like you can have an opinion on anything and everything but when someone else's opinion does not agree wiith yours you cry hate or proof/facts...IMO
bro whatever. "cut and paste". yeah okay, where di you cut and paste this negative comment from bro? get it from google? psh.

bro you can come talk to me face to face and ill explain to you how all this stuff works off the top of my head and it will all be accurate and in depth.  what makes somebody who learns from a professor, a better source than somebody who learns from the books and studies that that professor learned from?




local hero

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2008, 04:47:37 PM »
but the fact is, i do have actual experience, ive been there and done it and been around those whove took it even further...as have several others on here,and im willing to exchange ideas and listen to there point of view

u havent got any experience at all, all u have to back up your theories is more theories... they mean fuck all with out an end product

to put it another way, theres not a single person would give u the time of day in the gym in a debate over training, nutrition or gear..

you get a platform to speak only because its a msg board, and some poor fuckers with the same level of development as u actualy beleive the shite your spouting out..

now in 5 or so yrs time, when u actualy look like your a bodybuilder, and have sussed how things work in the real world, not just on paper, i'll be more than willing to listen to u

until then...............

candidizzle

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2008, 04:53:26 PM »
hey bro, untill you post a picture of yourself or show proof of all this experience you tak about... you have a physique worse than mine in my last photos i posted. because if yours WAS better, you owuld have posted pictures.  ;)

so shut up about what YOU THINK i look like.

theories? no, no theories. theories like how you say test-free cycles are good and how sustanon works better than enanthate? theories like that?

LOL

if you want to learn some real FACTUAL information..
here, go to the source; where i go
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/
http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/
http://www.bodyofscience.com/

local hero

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2008, 05:01:52 PM »
ive posted several pictures... im no yates, but im no mug

candidizzle

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2008, 05:07:15 PM »
ok fair enough,  you can say whatever youd like about how your physqiue compares to mine.  4 now  ;)

but that doesnt mean you bring your negativity and hate to this board. you shouldnt get mad because i correct you or present some information that contradicts what you think you know. if you dont like to be wrong, then do some research on your own and dont open your mouth when your not 100% positive what your saying is fact.  :D

local hero

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2008, 05:15:51 PM »
im not tryn to be a girl,,,but i dont get how u can advise people on how to do somthing before youve actualy done it your self?


for all i know you might be onto somthing, u might know everything u need to know to get huge...proofs in the pudding tho

candidizzle

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2008, 05:18:55 PM »
im not tryn to be a ####,,,but i dont get how u can advise people on how to do somthing before youve actualy done it your self?


for all i know you might be onto somthing, u might know everything u need to know to get huge...proofs in the pudding tho

ive done plenty of this shit already. most everything i say is coming from personal experience regarding useage. if its not from personal experience, i would be sure to say so in my post and give a reference for wherever the info was coming from.


IAMTHEGAME

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Re: To small to get started
« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2008, 05:35:24 PM »
bro whatever. "cut and paste". yeah okay, where di you cut and paste this negative comment from bro? get it from google? psh.

bro you can come talk to me face to face and ill explain to you how all this stuff works off the top of my head and it will all be accurate and in depth.  what makes somebody who learns from a professor, a better source than somebody who learns from the books and studies that that professor learned from?





How is this from your other post not cut and paste?  Splain Lucy, Splain


Sun Exposure and Fat Loss       
Written by Dan Gwartney, MD     
Monday, 09 April 2007 
"Eureka!" is heard as scientists uncover new discoveries, the cry accompanied by a cartoon light bulb appearing overhead. If that cartoon scene holds a clue to fat loss, it may be the light cast by the bulb. Insane, right? Surely fat loss is not as simple as upgrading from 60 to 75 watts? Of course it isn't, but there is a body of evidence suggesting that fat loss may be related to light exposure, more specifically, sun exposure.

Understanding the process involved is at first complex, but with a little effort, it becomes clear. In fact, don't be surprised if you need to read this article two or three times to fully understand it, as it deals with true cutting-edge science. The process likely evolved eons ago, when man was just learning to walk upright and considered fire to be a message from the gods. Before the advent of air-conditioning, forced-air furnaces and grocery stores, mankind responded to the changes in season just the way animals continue to do today.

The only measure of time available to primitive man was the length of the day, with shorter days announcing the coming of winter and a period of famine (starvation). As the days lengthened, warmer weather approached and food became more readily available. Man responded to the coming of winter by storing fat and burning fewer calories, while summer required him to shed those excess pounds to hunt and gather without becoming prey to carnivorous predators. The question arises: How did the sun signal primitive man to store fat for the winter and shed fat in the summer?

Pieces of a Puzzle
The path from sunshine to fat loss is like a puzzle in which all the pieces have to be identified and put together to form the picture. A close look at the pieces will show how they fit together and then the picture will be clear.
The sun is a source of ultraviolet (UV) rays, which cause oxidative stress (molecular injury) on the skin cell membrane and can lead to skin damage or cancer.1,2 The body has a mechanism for protecting against UV-caused skin damage by increasing the amount of a protective pigment called eumelanin.3,4 Eumelanin pigment builds up in the skin following UV exposure; this process is easily recognized by every sunbather as "tanning." Sunshine and tanning seems like a simple cause-and-effect relationship, but there are a number of steps involved before the appearance of the first freckle. Even more incredible is the far-reaching impact of the UV-tanning cascade on other tissues, including fat cells and the brain.

When UV rays strike the skin cell surface, they turn on certain genes within the cell's DNA.4,5 These genes produce a pre-prohormone called proopiomelancortin (POMC).4,5 POMC is broken down to smaller fragments, including a class of hormones called melanocortins.4-8 Specific melanocortins, including ∝-MSH (melanocyte stimulating hormone) stimulates the actual eumelanin production, resulting in a tan.4,9 Not surprisingly, eumelanin is an antioxidant, protecting against further UV-related damage, which explains why the body responds with a tan when assaulted by UV rays.3

Sun Exposure and Fat Loss
This describes how and why the sun tans the skin, but not how sun exposure causes fat loss. The hormones involved in the body's response to sun exposure, the melanocortins, are players in other tissues besides the skin.
 
A great deal of attention has been paid to a recent discovery in fat cell metabolism- a hormone known as leptin. Leptin is produced by the fat cells in abundance when fat content is high, and leptin levels drop as body fat is lost.10-12 Leptin, when administered as a drug, causes normal humans and rats to eat less and burn more calories.10-12 However, attempts to turn leptin into a fat loss drug have failed because most obese people do not respond to leptin treatment. This is called leptin resistance.10,12,13 Leptin research has continued and scientists have discovered that leptin acts upon certain areas of the brain, stimulating the production of- yup- melanocortins.10-12,14


These melanocortins, the same hormones produced by the skin, suppress the appetite centers in the brain, decreasing the amount of food eaten and causing weight loss.10,12 Animal experiments injecting melanocortins directly into the brain have proven the actions and effectiveness of these hormones.10,15,16

However, there are always checks and balances in the body, and the leptin-melanocortin system is no exception. A separate hormone, called agouti, is also present in the same areas of the brain and competes with the melanocortins.7,10,11,15-18 When the balance is tipped towards agouti, the subject becomes hungry, increasing food intake and gaining weight.10,11,14,16,18 So, leptin increases when the body gets fatter, causing the brain to produce melanocortins, which suppress the appetite. To avoid losing weight too rapidly, a counter-hormone called agouti competes with the melanocortins when body fat drops, restoring the appetite.

Research has shown that melanocortins injected into the body affect the brain and weight gain, just like they do when injected directly into the brain.6,8,13,19-21 This suggests that melanocortins produced in the skin may circulate through the bloodstream and affect the brain and other tissues.
Interestingly, the same hormones that cause tanning also affect the appetite, but fat loss involves more than controlling the appetite. Melanocortins and agouti, the same hormones competing to control the appetite in the brain, both act on the fat cell.6,17,22-24 Fat cells contain receptors that respond to agouti by increasing the concentration of calcium in the fat cell.22,23

Increased calcium inside the fat cell promotes lipogenic process and enzymes, creating more fat inside the cell, decreasing fat loss.22,23,25,26 When the balance outside the cell favors melanocortins, calcium is prohibited from entering the fat cell and stored fat is broken down and released, to be burned as fuel by the body.6,23,24

The Vitamin D Factor
 The actions of melanocortins and agouti on the fat cell appear to involve modifying the effects of vitamin D. Vitamin D is created in the skin, in a reaction involving sun exposure.25  It is sensible that the skin would generate and release a messenger hormone (vitamin D is a steroid molecule) that acts upon the fat cell. During winter, which would be anticipated by a shorter period of daylight, fat would function both as a source for stored energy and as a thermal insulator, protecting against the oncoming cold weather. During the summer, an individual needs to shed the blanket of fat to be more mobile and to improve heat loss. Failure to lose the stored fat would have put primitive man at a disadvantage, making him slow and prone to heat exhaustion when hunting or avoiding predators.

In addition to these effects, it appears that melanocortin is also able to increase the body's metabolism, increasing the rate at which calories are burned. Animal data suggest that in the presence of melanocortins, uncoupling protein-3 is increased.13,15,19,20 Uncoupling proteins make the body less efficient, causing calories to be released as heat, rather than used for energy production. Adding to the metabolic increase is the effect of melanocortins on thyroid hormone release. When exposed to melanocortins, the thyroid increases its output, further increasing the body's metabolism and fat burning rate. 26
   
A Potent Mechanism
So many pieces, but when put in place, they describe a potent mechanism by which the body reacts to the anticipated onset of famine (winter) and feasting (summer). Sunlight "irritates" the skin, turning on a genetic sequence, creating melanocortins. These melanocortins increase the skin's pigment (eumelanin) but also circulate throughout the body, possibly affecting other systems. Melanocortins have been shown to affect fat storage and release, appetite and the metabolic rate of the entire body. Within the brain, melanocortin production is influenced by the amount of fat stored by the body, and appears to be involved in weight (fat) maintenance, even in the absence of sunlight.

Apparently the process has not escaped the attention of several pharmaceutical companies who have rushed to patent a number of drugs that act like the naturally produced melanocortins.27-33 Much of the research is currently focused on the use of melanocortin-like drugs to treat obesity7,21,27,34 and impotence28-38 (yes, it increases erections too), in addition to the tanning effect, leading the press to call these drugs "Barbie drugs" after the ever-beautiful BarbieŽ Dolls.39
 
When considered as a whole, this evidence would suggest that increasing sun exposure, sufficient to cause a tanning response, may support fat loss efforts. Tanning might make dieting easier by decreasing the appetite, reducing food intake and increasing the use of stored fat for calories. The stored fat may be more readily released and burned as fuel. Those who do not tan easily, such as redheads and those with fair skin, are unlikely to benefit to the same degree.1,2,9,40,41

Tanning is not without risk, as skin damage and cancerous changes increase with prolonged and excessive sun exposure. It's recommended that a skin cancer screen be performed prior to tanning and if any skin lesions or changes are noted.