You pretty much know genetically where you are after the first few years....

[Deicide]

Meaning you know that you will either be making loads of progress or very little....

Discuss...

[webcake]

You love talking about genetics, don't you?...

[Parker]

Meaning you know that you will either be making loads of progress or very little....

Discuss...

No, I don't think so. Within the first couple of years you are learning, and many times the weight (muscle) come on hard and fast, then you have to tweak it, and then it's the mind-muscle connection
Or maybe you are training wrong. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't him drink it. If you have been training for 2 years and haven't made any noticeable gains, either you are truly stupid or are blind. Hell, even if you only trained traps for one month you (I do) notice some severe improvements.

Here's a clue, stop talking about genetics and start actually believing you can accomplish something.

[candidizzle]

No, I don't think so. Within the first couple of years you are learning, and many times the weight (muscle) come on hard and fast, then you have to tweak it, and then it's the mind-muscle connection
Or maybe you are training wrong. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't him drink it. If you have been training for 2 years and haven't made any noticeable gains, either you are truly stupid or are blind. Hell, even if you only trained traps for one month you (I do) notice some severe improvements.

Here's a clue, stop talking about genetics and start actually believing you can accomplish something.

[Deicide]

You love talking about genetics, don't you?...

It's an extension of my belief in biological determinism.

[Deicide]

No, I don't think so. Within the first couple of years you are learning, and many times the weight (muscle) come on hard and fast, then you have to tweak it, and then it's the mind-muscle connection
Or maybe you are training wrong. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't him drink it. If you have been training for 2 years and haven't made any noticeable gains, either you are truly stupid or are blind. Hell, even if you only trained traps for one month you (I do) notice some severe improvements.

Here's a clue, stop talking about genetics and start actually believing you can accomplish something.

Never trained traps...they grew naturally...as did my legs...everything else though...

[CQ]

Disagree.

I started at well over 200lbs, a couple of years in I was still an epic loser in the gym and went on to flip my stage across stages and win titles. We are limited mostly by our work ethic, people use the genetics to excuse laziness many times, although of course they do come into play - not as much as we like to think though. Hard work pays off.

[Deicide]

Disagree.

I started at well over 200lbs, a couple of years in I was still an epic loser in the gym and went on to flip my stage across stages and win titles. We are limited mostly by our work ethic, people use the genetics to excuse laziness many times, although of course they do come into play - not as much as we like to think though. Hard work pays off.

I disagree; without external aid there is nothing that will change the shape, fiber number, belly structure of your muscles for example. Try as you may.

[CQ]

I disagree; without external aid there is nothing that will change the shape, fiber number, belly structure of your muscles for example. Try as you may.

True, but for many this is not that key. Not reffering to top bodybuilders where muscle bellies etc really matter.

For 99% of the population they can make fantastic gains if they buckle down. People piss and moan about not being cut, well do 2 hours cardio a day everyday for 6 months, diet and never cheat - most people will cut up. Same applies for many things in fitness/bb. Thing is most won't do that. They toss out some half ass effort then scream their genetics are bad.

[Deicide]

True, but for many this is not that key. Not reffering to top bodybuilders where muscle bellies etc really matter.

For 99% of the population they can make fantastic gains if they buckle down. People piss and moan about not being cut, well do 2 hours cardio a day everyday for 6 months, diet and never cheat - most people will cut up. Same applies for many things in fitness/bb. Thing is most won't do that. They toss out some half ass effort then scream their genetics are bad.

2 hours of cardio a day will eat up massive amounts of muscle if you are natural; when I diet, I prefer intervall training.

[CQ]

2 hours of cardio a day will eat up massive amounts of muscle if you are natural; when I diet, I prefer intervall training.

Was just a point, and for me I found 2 hours is what I needed to get in tip top condition, works well for me and I am natural.

Fact remains hard work will do wonders, though most feel some half ass training and dieting some of the year seems to be adequate. That is fine, not everyone wants to train hard and diet constantly [I don't] but we generally will look like the effort we put in. Many prefer to complain though, instead of work.

[Parker]

Never trained traps...they grew naturally...as did my legs...everything else though...

Your legs are bigger than mine ever was...I never really trained them, but I had proportionally large quads (genetically), but a big ass as well, so whenever I squatted my ass grew...much to my female co-workers delight.

So stop downing yourself...could be the way you are training.

[genrommel74]

people use genetics as an excuse to quit and not even try

[_bruce_]

Unless you've maxed out - it's an excuse.
After a few years with consistent food, rest and right training you can appreciate your limits - but few are capable of doing most things to a t... so many times
"...I think I've reached my limits" is not truthful.

[Deicide]

Unless you've maxed out - it's an excuse.
After a few years with consistent food, rest and right training you can appreciate your limits - but few are capable of doing most things to a t... so many times
"...I think I've reached my limits" is not truthful.

Stimmt schon teilweise...sobald ich wieder Zugang zum Huettenkaese habe...dann....

[_bruce_]

Stimmt schon teilweise...sobald ich wieder Zugang zum Huettenkaese habe...dann....

Bist halt ein Pessimist - zumindest scheints so + du verarscht dich zu gerne selber.
Schau dir ein wenig vom Optimismus mancher Prolos ab... nur eine Scheibe um ein wenig den inneren Zyniker abzuschwaechen und es wird besser.

[michael arvilla]

Disagree.

I started at well over 200lbs, a couple of years in I was still an epic loser in the gym and went on to flip my stage across stages and win titles. We are limited mostly by our work ethic, people use the genetics to excuse laziness many times, although of course they do come into play - not as much as we like to think though. Hard work pays off.

  Bingo!

[dustin]

You love talking about genetics, don't you?...

Been lurking the boards for years and even I noticed that he likes to complain about his genetics, even if sometimes it seems like it's more in good human than actual pity or sorrow.

Deicide, your genetics aren't as poor as you'd think. Maybe you're just stick on a really shitty plateau. I've seen a few of your pics and they're not that bad. You've got good legs, but I can't recall what your upper body looks like. Have you had any blood work lately? Do you know where your T sits, or what your thyroid's looking like? And are you positive that your diet is optimal for your goals? Because in my very limited experience, I've come to understand that NO ONES diet is anywhere near perfected... you can always make improvements. Sometimes these improvements are profound, like you've had a big epiphany. I've had a few of these.

Keep your head up and keep training your ass off, man. I started bodybuilding at around 100lbs just after graduating high school, had psoriasis or something in my hands (bad allergic reaction to my then-girlfriends cat) and I couldn't even make a fist without breaking out all over. Within two years I was a relatively lean 160-170lbs. Tried Superdrol and got to nearly 190lbs, only to get sick, put on a ton of fat and lose more muscle than I had before. Fought my way up to 200lbs with a real cycle with just test, had my PCT get demolished while moving, did another small cycle of sust and EQ and got back to 180-190lbs lean and now I'm sitting a bit about 170lbs but a lot leaner.

I get really bad migraines so sometimes I'll be bulking or cutting, then I'll get the worst migraine ever and my body goes fucking haywire. I'm not gonna touch any juice because I don't want to make marvelous gains and lose them a few months after PCT either. My body will not go below 170lbs now so my homeostasis finally seems to favor 170lbs over 100lbs... I'll sit here, continuing to build muscle without drugs, lose a lot more fat and get as ripped as possible without any drugs......... and then I'm gonna start juicing like crazy lol

We all have our challenges. I don't know anyone else who gets migraines as bad as I do. Been getting them since I was 5, and no pharms can help. I smoke marijuana recreationally and work on identifying migraine triggers so I don't lose my hard earned gains. My migraines cripple me, to the point where I may fall on the floor with pain, extreme nausea, etc. I think I may have decent genetics because all the gym rats were pretty astonished at how fast my brothers and I would grow (my brothers are fucking amazing genetic specimens - if only they would eat better!) but whatever... we've gotta make due with what we've got. Either that, or learn how to use drugs lol

Sorry for the tangent, didn't particularly mean to lecture you or anything. Just bored lol

[_bruce_]

Been lurking the boards for years and even I noticed that he likes to complain about his genetics, even if sometimes it seems like it's more in good human than actual pity or sorrow.

Deicide, your genetics aren't as poor as you'd think. Maybe you're just stick on a really shitty plateau. I've seen a few of your pics and they're not that bad. You've got good legs, but I can't recall what your upper body looks like. Have you had any blood work lately? Do you know where your T sits, or what your thyroid's looking like? And are you positive that your diet is optimal for your goals? Because in my very limited experience, I've come to understand that NO ONES diet is anywhere near perfected... you can always make improvements. Sometimes these improvements are profound, like you've had a big epiphany. I've had a few of these.

Keep your head up and keep training your ass off, man. I started bodybuilding at around 100lbs just after graduating high school, had psoriasis or something in my hands (bad allergic reaction to my then-girlfriends cat) and I couldn't even make a fist without breaking out all over. Within two years I was a relatively lean 160-170lbs. Tried Superdrol and got to nearly 190lbs, only to get sick, put on a ton of fat and lose more muscle than I had before. Fought my way up to 200lbs with a real cycle with just test, had my PCT get demolished while moving, did another small cycle of sust and EQ and got back to 180-190lbs lean and now I'm sitting a bit about 170lbs but a lot leaner.

I get really bad migraines so sometimes I'll be bulking or cutting, then I'll get the worst migraine ever and my body goes fucking haywire. I'm not gonna touch any juice because I don't want to make marvelous gains and lose them a few months after PCT either. My body will not go below 170lbs now so my homeostasis finally seems to favor 170lbs over 100lbs... I'll sit here, continuing to build muscle without drugs, lose a lot more fat and get as ripped as possible without any drugs......... and then I'm gonna start juicing like crazy lol

We all have our challenges. I don't know anyone else who gets migraines as bad as I do. Been getting them since I was 5, and no pharms can help. I smoke marijuana recreationally and work on identifying migraine triggers so I don't lose my hard earned gains. My migraines cripple me, to the point where I may fall on the floor with pain, extreme nausea, etc. I think I may have decent genetics because all the gym rats were pretty astonished at how fast my brothers and I would grow (my brothers are fucking amazing genetic specimens - if only they would eat better!) but whatever... we've gotta make due with what we've got. Either that, or learn how to use drugs lol

Sorry for the tangent, didn't particularly mean to lecture you or anything. Just bored lol

Interesting.

[CalvinH]

Ehh,I always joke with my friends that you begin to know your body after you stop lifting with your ego{ie.for me it was my first injury}.

[MCWAY]

True, but for many this is not that key. Not reffering to top bodybuilders where muscle bellies etc really matter.

For 99% of the population they can make fantastic gains if they buckle down. People piss and moan about not being cut, well do 2 hours cardio a day everyday for 6 months, diet and never cheat - most people will cut up. Same applies for many things in fitness/bb. Thing is most won't do that. They toss out some half ass effort then scream their genetics are bad.

How does that Ronnie Coleman saying go again?

Unless you've maxed out - it's an excuse.
After a few years with consistent food, rest and right training you can appreciate your limits - but few are capable of doing most things to a t... so many times
"...I think I've reached my limits" is not truthful.

Back in college (1996), I wasn't sure if I could even reach 200 lbs, as I had been stuck at 189. But, I dug up the old issues of MuscleMag, went over the articles about bulking up and gaining mass, and put it to work. Three months later, I ended up at 210 lbs.

There are other things that, at one point, I didn't think I had the genetics to do (or couldn't do without going the way of the syringe).

- Bench press over 400 lbs
- Squat over 500 lbs
- Build 18" arms

Well, despite my ectomorphic genes, I've achieved all of these goals (steroid-free, I might add).

[Butterbean]

Deicide, you do not have terrible genetics.  Look at your legs for one.  They are genetically superior to some men's legs that even compete and they probably worked theirs extremely hard.

From our PM conversations I believe you need to change your training and especially your diet.

There are people here that can help you make a transformation that you won't believe with diet and training plans.   The problem is though like CQ and others say...people tend not to stick w/the plan.  It takes time to see the results you want.  But from your before pictures I feel if you committed to even 10 weeks the improvements you would see would inspire you to continue.

But I also want to be clear that you shouldn't start a diet/training plan until you are out of Korea and into a new place where you can focus on diet and training more and not the hell you are going through.

How much longer till you're out of there?

[Butterbean]

Look at this comparison shot taken by Bill Comstock.  You can see differences in structure in these girls.  Some of the differences are because of genetics and some are a result of training etc. but they all got lean.

All of these girls look fantastic and possibly each one has the best physique in their perspective gym.  But next to each other you can see differences that could be related to genetics.

That being said I do believe you can build more muscle where you want it and get lean and be happier with your body.  But it's very hard work.  I'm sure CQ never thought her 200 pound body would look as great as it does now.  I was very surprised to see the changes in my body after a 10 week diet. 

If there is a time when you are ready to change what you are doing now I'm sure a lot of people here would be willing to help

[Moosejay]

Meaning you know that you will either be making loads of progress or very little....

Discuss...

took me 10 years of competed until I won a show.

I used aas early on for 8 yrs...never won anything on

Competed nat since 1990...is when I did my best

[Hypertrophy]

My experience has been that you make most of your mass increases in the first 2-3 years, and then it levels off after that. Anybody else seen that?