Author Topic: Please critique my new cycle I am planning  (Read 3445 times)

jtsunami

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Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« on: July 20, 2008, 11:35:06 PM »
I was planning to do another cycle before christmas this year, this is what I was thinking,

weeks 1 - 10 1,500 mg test e / week   750 mon 750 thurs

that is it, simple, I am not sure what to do with pct, last time I just used gh pct and had my test levels checked a month or two after cycle and everything was normal except the doc said he could still see some traces of aas in raised something levels, test levels where back in normal range.  Any opinions on this?

jt
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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2008, 08:56:25 AM »
No AI?  No finasteride? 

I'd rather use 1ml ed than 3ml at once.  Does Mon/Thurs suit your split?


Overload

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2008, 09:18:12 AM »
Sounds great...nolva and clomid for PCT.

Why so short?

Good luck!

8)

candidizzle

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2008, 09:19:31 AM »
to make sure you dont do soemthing stupid, do NOT follow oveloads advice... EITHER nolva or clomid. not both.

you might want to run hcg , and an ai through pct as well.

jtsunami

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2008, 09:22:02 AM »
Not gonna use a Ai I had my gyno cut out.  I'd rather inject less frequently, and the 3ml shots don't affect me that much if I use the thigh or tricep I have noticed. 

I'm just get tired of the shots after 10 weeks and the strick diet I will be on.

jt
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candidizzle

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2008, 09:29:19 AM »
Not gonna use a Ai I had my gyno cut out.  I'd rather inject less frequently, and the 3ml shots don't affect me that much if I use the thigh or tricep I have noticed. 

I'm just get tired of the shots after 10 weeks and the strick diet I will be on.

jt
ai in pct isnt for gyno its to help keep test high as possible and to avoid estro rebound when you cut out the serm

Overload

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2008, 09:47:05 AM »
to clarify for overload, he means EITHER nolva or clomid. not both. you might want to run hcg , and an ai through pct as well.

I disagree 100%

An AI for PCT is a very bad idea.

Have you ever run PCT before?

Nolva and/or Clomid is all he will need...HCG is ok, but not needed for a 10 week cycle.

8)

Overload

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2008, 09:48:22 AM »
to clarify for overload

Please refrain from speaking for me.

Thank you,

8)

candidizzle

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2008, 09:53:25 AM »
Please refrain from speaking for me.

Thank you,

8)
changed it fo ya  :D

4thAD

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2008, 10:13:59 AM »
Candi, JT knows what he is doing and what works for him, as he has been around for a while. Ive known him for years on other boards. People have been using both clomid and nolva for PCT for a very long time, with very good results. I know guys who swear by clomid and nolva PCT's and recover very well. What doesn't work for one may very well work for another. I always use an AI during PCT and recover flawlessly. The AI is not only to keep natural test high as possible, but to also ward off estrogen rebound. I will not recommend just any ai though, as some will screw with liver values, and igf-1. The only ai I feel that should be used during PCT is aromasin. Liver values, and igf-1 is not affected by aromasin, but it can raise test levels significantly.

4thAD

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2008, 10:38:14 AM »
I was planning to do another cycle before christmas this year, this is what I was thinking,

weeks 1 - 10 1,500 mg test e / week   750 mon 750 thurs

that is it, simple, I am not sure what to do with pct, last time I just used gh pct and had my test levels checked a month or two after cycle and everything was normal except the doc said he could still see some traces of aas in raised something levels, test levels where back in normal range.  Any opinions on this?

jt

Hey JT, Nice simple cycle. I'm with Overload though, why so so short, just as you start getting the gains from this your quitting. Nobody likes a quitter bro...JK. I personally would run this a minimum of 12, but probably more like 16-20. Good luck mang!

Arnold jr

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2008, 11:59:01 AM »
On paper there is no reason to inject your test-e more then 2x/wk, on paper 1xwk will work.

However, eod/injections work a lot better IMO. You will feel much better, you will feel much more stable. Yes, you would be pinning more, but even when it's a long estered test like test-e, injecting it and spreading it through the wk as much as you can always makes a big difference.

AI's Overload is right...AI's are not best if not used during PCT...but like 4th said, what doesn't work for some may work well for others.

Last thing, nolva and clomid, is my personal preference with any PCT...yes, that's right, both nolva and clomid along with HCG at the beginning.

Rimbaud

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2008, 12:01:40 PM »
On paper there is no reason to inject your test-e more then 2x/wk, on paper 1xwk will work.

However, eod/injections work a lot better IMO. You will feel much better, you will feel much more stable. Yes, you would be pinning more, but even when it's a long estered test like test-e, injecting it and spreading it through the wk as much as you can always makes a big difference.

AI's Overload is right...AI's are not best if not used during PCT...but like 4th said, what doesn't work for some may work well for others.

Last thing, nolva and clomid, is my personal preference with any PCT...yes, that's right, both nolva and clomid along with HCG at the beginning.

The best & smoothest PCT I ever had was taking 50mg of Clomid & 20mg of Nolva everyday.

candidizzle

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2008, 12:24:59 PM »
yes nolva +clomid will work better, just as i am sure 200mg test enanthate + 200 mg test cypionate works much better than 200mg of either of them alone as wel...  ::) ... lol


oh and in regards to ai in pct....     it doesnt matter what you htink works for you. your endocirine system functions the exact same as every other human beings.

Arnold jr

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2008, 12:44:45 PM »
yes nolva +clomid will work better, just as i am sure 200mg test enanthate + 200 mg test cypionate works much better than 200mg of either of them alone as wel...  ::) ... lol
Don't really know what to tell you...other then I've done it both ways. I've run PCT's with just nolva, with just clomid and with both...with both always works better...it's not a minimal difference either...it is a drastic improvement.

It's kind of like what I'm always talking about when it comes to long acting single estered test injections. On paper, all scientific data shows us that you only need 1 injection per wk...many studies would space it out to an even futher degree, such as every 10-14 days.

However, talk to every bodybuilder you've ever known and more then a few will swear by eod or even ed injection protocol with test-e or cyp...again, the difference is not a minimal difference.

oh and in regards to ai in pct....     it doesnt matter what you htink works for you. your endocirine system functions the exact same as every other human beings.

I'm not a fan of using AI's while on PCT, I never ever say "use an AI while on PCT." You're right, by the way the human body works it doesn't make sense IMO. But that doesn't mean it cannot be done and done well.

For example, take 20 guys and have them run either a cycle of just tren or just deca. Most all of them will experience a severe libido crash...erections will be a thing of the past. But I guarantee you there will be a few of them that do not experience this at all. There are a lot of guys out there that run either tren or deca without anything else...and on paper with everything we know about deca and tren, this should not be...they should be shut down and shut down hard. But they're not...so what some test or some case study says is not always applicable to every individual on the planet.

If the human body was identical, if everyone was the same on the inside and everyone functioned identically, then everyone of us who used AAS and trained hard would be as big as Ronnie Coleman.

candidizzle

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2008, 12:48:30 PM »
Don't really know what to tell you...other then I've done it both ways. I've run PCT's with just nolva, with just clomid and with both...with both always works better...it's not a minimal difference either...it is a drastic improvement.

It's kind of like what I'm always talking about when it comes to long acting single estered test injections. On paper, all scientific data shows us that you only need 1 injection per wk...many studies would space it out to an even futher degree, such as every 10-14 days.

However, talk to every bodybuilder you've ever known and more then a few will swear by eod or even ed injection protocol with test-e or cyp...again, the difference is not a minimal difference.
well i think on paper, once yu actually lok at ester half lifes and disperion raes....the science actually says regrdless of ester weight the minimum injeio frequency for stable blood levels is going to be no more then once every third day.

my point was that of course a bigger dose of serm will work bter. i dout its the combonaton of clomid +nolva, but the added mg of serm. because the are effectivel the same product.

I'm not a fan of using AI's while on PCT, I never ever say "use an AI while on PCT." You're right, by the way the human body works it doesn't make sense IMO. But that doesn't mean it cannot be done and done well.

For example, take 20 guys and have them run either a cycle of just tren or just deca. Most all of them will experience a severe libido crash...erections will be a thing of the past. But I guarantee you there will be a few of them that do not experience this at all. There are a lot of guys out there that run either tren or deca without anything else...and on paper with everything we know about deca and tren, this should not be...they should be shut down and shut down hard. But they're not...so what some test or some case study says is not always applicable to every individual on the planet.

If the human body was identical, if everyone was the same on the inside and everyone functioned identically, then everyone of us who used AAS and trained hard would be as big as Ronnie Coleman.

the reason i said an ai would be good is because once the serm starts up testosterone production, you want to get tha test levels as high as possible and which preventing aromatization does). and then, when you cut out the serm, if you hadn rn an ai, yo would have a huge ero rebound effect.  so to prevent that run an ai through pct and for a short whle after you cut out the serm.

4thAD

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2008, 12:53:35 PM »
Hey AJ why is it that you do not like AI's during PCT? I'm kind of curious to know why...

Arnold jr

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2008, 12:56:28 PM »
Candy, going by scientific data is great...it should be the basis of what you do when it comes to this sort of thing...I cannot argue that. If you follow scientific and documented medical procedure then it will be hard to go wrong.

Even so, as long as what you're doing is not dangerous and is not a threat to your overall wellbeing, then I'd rather go by how I feel, what my results are etc.

Come on, even your beloved GH15 doesn't follow scientific protocol.

candidizzle

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2008, 12:57:50 PM »
i know and i dont consider him an expert anymore  :D
lol


Arnold jr

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2008, 12:59:23 PM »
Hey AJ why is it that you do not like AI's during PCT? I'm kind of curious to know why...
Honestly, and I know this will sound extremally stupid...so call me a dumb ass if you must, lol! But an AI during PCT does it's job to well...I'm talking about production of your natural hormones. Once you come off PCT, things seem to work better if you hadn't used an AI...that's all I'm getting at.

Overload

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2008, 01:05:47 PM »
Honestly, and I know this will sound extremally stupid...so call me a dumb ass if you must, lol! But an AI during PCT does it's job to well...I'm talking about production of your natural hormones. Once you come off PCT, things seem to work better if you hadn't used an AI...that's all I'm getting at.

This was my understanding and experience.

Blocking estrogen during PCT can lead to big problems.

Guys have been using Clomid/Nolva combos for years with no problems.


8)

4thAD

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2008, 01:07:20 PM »
Honestly, and I know this will sound extremally stupid...so call me a dumb ass if you must, lol! But an AI during PCT does it's job to well...I'm talking about production of your natural hormones. Once you come off PCT, things seem to work better if you hadn't used an AI...that's all I'm getting at.

Bro I would never call you a dumb ass! I was just curious, as I respect what you have too say and I always like to hear other peoples theories on PCT (keeps me thinking). I know Van does not like AI's in PCT either. You are correct though, Aromasin works very well, and is the only AI you will see me recommend in PCT. I have a very cool debate I will post here on the use of aromasin. I will post it tonight.

One more thing, the PCT I use and recommend is part of the on cycle HCG use also. I have not run a PCT with aromasin, without first using HCG on cycle. The combination of the two (on cycle HCG protocol, and Aromasin and clomid PCT) makes for a very smooth transition off cycle.

Arnold jr

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2008, 01:08:33 PM »
This was my understanding and experience.

Blocking estrogen during PCT can lead to big problems.

Guys have been using Clomid/Nolva combos for years with no problems.


8)

Exactly...thinks for taking the words out of my mouth...I've been sitting at the PC way to long today...getting difficult typing my thoughts, lol!

4thAD

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2008, 01:09:54 PM »
This was my understanding and experience.

Blocking estrogen during PCT can lead to big problems.

Guys have been using Clomid/Nolva combos for years with no problems.


8)

Thats why I recommend only aromasin as an ai during PCT it will not kill the estrogen. It will bring it down, but not kill it like some think. IGF-1 concentrations and liver values are not affected.

candidizzle

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Re: Please critique my new cycle I am planning
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2008, 01:10:03 PM »
you already are blocking estrogen from having any real physique effects by taking a serm. if the estrogen cant be used anyways, might as not not have any of it and have MORE test.


if your talking about cholestrol or libido or general health then yes i can see a problem with ai... but when talking straight physique issues...