Author Topic: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images  (Read 1820 times)

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« on: July 26, 2008, 09:03:32 AM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/26/world/middleeast/26censor.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin




BAGHDAD — The case of a freelance photographer in Iraq who was barred from covering the Marines after he posted photos on the Internet of several of them dead has underscored what some journalists say is a growing effort by the American military to control graphic images from the war.


 

JAN. 18, 2005 An Iraqi girl after her parents were killed by American gunfire in Tal Afar. More Photos »
Zoriah Miller, the photographer who took images of marines killed in a June 26 suicide attack and posted them on his Web site, was subsequently forbidden to work in Marine Corps-controlled areas of the country. Maj. Gen. John Kelly, the Marine commander in Iraq, is now seeking to have Mr. Miller barred from all United States military facilities throughout the world. Mr. Miller has since left Iraq.

If the conflict in Vietnam was notable for open access given to journalists — too much, many critics said, as the war played out nightly in bloody newscasts — the Iraq war may mark an opposite extreme: after five years and more than 4,000 American combat deaths, searches and interviews turned up fewer than a half-dozen graphic photographs of dead American soldiers.

It is a complex issue, with competing claims often difficult to weigh in an age of instant communication around the globe via the Internet, in which such images can add to the immediate grief of families and the anger of comrades still in the field.

While the Bush administration faced criticism for overt political manipulation in not permitting photos of flag-draped coffins, the issue is more emotional on the battlefield: local military commanders worry about security in publishing images of the American dead as well as an affront to the dignity of fallen comrades. Most newspapers refuse to publish such pictures as a matter of policy.

But opponents of the war, civil liberties advocates and journalists argue that the public portrayal of the war is being sanitized and that Americans who choose to do so have the right to see — in whatever medium — the human cost of a war that polls consistently show is unpopular with Americans.

Journalists say it is now harder, or harder than in the earlier years, to accompany troops in Iraq on combat missions. Even memorial services for killed soldiers, once routinely open, are increasingly off limits. Detainees were widely photographed in the early years of the war, but the Department of Defense, citing prisoners’ rights, has recently stopped that practice as well.

And while publishing photos of American dead is not barred under the “embed” rules in which journalists travel with military units, the Miller case underscores what is apparently one reality of the Iraq war: that doing so, even under the rules, can result in expulsion from covering the war with the military.

“It is absolutely censorship,” Mr. Miller said. “I took pictures of something they didn’t like, and they removed me. Deciding what I can and cannot document, I don’t see a clearer definition of censorship.”

The Marine Corps denied it was trying to place limits on the news media and said Mr. Miller broke embed regulations. Security is the issue, officials said.

“Specifically, Mr. Miller provided our enemy with an after-action report on the effectiveness of their attack and on the response procedures of U.S. and Iraqi forces,” said Lt. Col. Chris Hughes, a Marine spokesman.

News organizations say that such restrictions are one factor in declining coverage of the war, along with the danger, the high cost to financially ailing media outlets and diminished interest among Americans in following the war. By a recent count, only half a dozen Western photographers were covering a war in which 150,000 American troops are engaged.

In Mr. Miller’s case, a senior military official in Baghdad said that while his photographs were still under review, a preliminary assessment showed he had not violated ground rules established by the multinational force command. The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing, emphasized that Mr. Miller was still credentialed to work in Iraq, though several military officials acknowledged that no military unit would accept him.

Stark

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22988
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2008, 09:28:05 AM »
jesus that picture is brutal


240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2008, 10:11:45 AM »
If they had posted pics of 4000 dead soldiers, one by one as they died, in major newspapers or websites, this war would have ended in 2004 if bush wanted to keep his job.

War is ugly business.  you have to shield the population if you need their permission/funding for it.

chafed_nut_sack420

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1435
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2008, 11:26:57 AM »
Full disclosure of all the facts help a society make better decisions. Sheilding this type of material from the public warps their perspective on what war is really like, it's no wonder it seems that the only people caring about the soilders are the actual family members and close friends.

powerpack

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3166
  • Time to get Buck wild!
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2008, 11:41:19 AM »
If they had posted pics of 4000 dead soldiers, one by one as they died, in major newspapers or websites, this war would have ended in 2004 if bush wanted to keep his job.

War is ugly business.  you have to shield the population if you need their permission/funding for it.

true

Full disclosure of all the facts help a society make better decisions. Sheilding this type of material from the public warps their perspective on what war is really like, it's no wonder it seems that the only people caring about the soilders are the actual family members and close friends.

The enemy wants the other side to see pictures of their sons and daughters dead.
It cheapens the soilders deaths and It kills the fighting spirit of a nation.
Out and out lies have no place but not showing your own dead as if it was a snuff movie has its place

Purge_WTF

  • Guest
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2008, 11:59:13 AM »
War is ugly business.  you have to shield the population if you need their permission/funding for it.

  And he didn't really have that to begin with.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2008, 01:43:32 PM »
  And he didn't really have that to begin with.

He had congress' permission.   and we elected them.  And we un-elected many of them because of the war, and will continue to do so in 2008.

Ex Coelis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8075
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2008, 10:37:42 PM »
it is in poor taste and disrespectful to show pictures of dead troops

forget political bs; it's about the families of the fallen

my friends and family would be mortified to see pictures of my corpse paraded across tv and the internet

can any of you say differently?

24KT

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 24455
  • Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2008, 10:52:30 PM »
it is in poor taste and disrespectful to show pictures of dead troops

forget political bs; it's about the families of the fallen

my friends and family would be mortified to see pictures of my corpse paraded across tv and the internet

can any of you say differently?

I understand where you're coming from Big Poppa J, but I gotta tell you I see it from a different perspective.

I don't see it as just "poor taste" or "disrespectful", I see it as downright treasonous, impeachable, and psychopathic to send those troops to be slaughtered for corporate greed in the first place, ...and then to continue selling the nation a lie, calling for even more volunteers?

I can understand that people want to remember their friends or family members a certain way, ...but considering what war does to some of those bodies, I doubt that if someone saw many of those blown to bits that they would actually recognize them as a family member. In any event, how does that justify refusal to allow photography of the many flag draped coffins returning home? It's just another psy-ops on the American public in an attempt to sanitize a disgraceful war that should not have been waged in the first place.
w

Stark

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22988
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2008, 11:57:58 PM »
I understand where you're coming from Big Poppa J, but I gotta tell you I see it from a different perspective.

I don't see it as just "poor taste" or "disrespectful", I see it as downright treasonous, impeachable, and psychopathic to send those troops to be slaughtered for corporate greed in the first place, ...and then to continue selling the nation a lie, calling for even more volunteers?

I can understand that people want to remember their friends or family members a certain way, ...but considering what war does to some of those bodies, I doubt that if someone saw many of those blown to bits that they would actually recognize them as a family member. In any event, how does that justify refusal to allow photography of the many flag draped coffins returning home? It's just another psy-ops on the American public in an attempt to sanitize a disgraceful war that should not have been waged in the first place.

yeah it's ironic how so many give a shit about dead soldiers pictures but didn't really show any interested
of the individual when they were alive  :-\

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2008, 07:55:45 AM »
Funny u have a good point....most libs could care less about us unless they can bang the "vets rights" horseshit or poor troops mantra. We volunteered....hey Jag its psy-op not plural....as in I conducted a psy-op handbill drop. Or the Psy op guys are running a radio station.....stick to pyrimid schemes.
L

24KT

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 24455
  • Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2008, 01:20:33 PM »
Funny u have a good point....most libs could care less about us unless they can bang the "vets rights" horseshit or poor troops mantra. We volunteered....hey Jag its psy-op not plural....as in I conducted a psy-op handbill drop. Or the Psy op guys are running a radio station.....stick to pyrimid schemes.

How ironic. The King of the GetBig typo is calling me out on a typo. love it. {lol}

Considering how often these things are done on the American public,
you might as well put an s on the end and pluralize it!  :D
w

Buffgeek

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 712
  • I love white women!
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2008, 01:58:36 PM »
If we saw images of the massacres in Darfur and really all over Africa, or the Human Trafficing in many Countries or Countless other atrocities or even images of what was happening in Iraq pre-clusterfuck, Would that spur us into action internationally? Its one thing to see our dead Soldiers, but would it make a difference to see images of what they were dying to prevent?

I am not justifying our presence in Iraq. Im just looking at the other side of this issue.

24KT

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 24455
  • Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2008, 02:32:27 PM »
If we saw images of the massacres in Darfur and really all over Africa, or the Human Trafficing in many Countries or Countless other atrocities or even images of what was happening in Iraq pre-clusterfuck, Would that spur us into action internationally? Its one thing to see our dead Soldiers, but would it make a difference to see images of what they were dying to prevent?

I am not justifying our presence in Iraq. Im just looking at the other side of this issue.

You are justifying the presence in Iraq by saying they were dying to prevent something.

The question I have is what are they dying to prevent?  A stable Iraq?
w

MuscleMcMannus

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6236
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2008, 03:53:35 PM »
Funny u have a good point....most libs could care less about us unless they can bang the "vets rights" horseshit or poor troops mantra. We volunteered....hey Jag its psy-op not plural....as in I conducted a psy-op handbill drop. Or the Psy op guys are running a radio station.....stick to pyrimid schemes.

Hahaha Mr. Getbig Harvard PhD is telling others how to spell.  Gotta love it!  Stick to being a grunt you have no business analyzing foreign policy or thinking critically about the world around you.  You have a job to do soldier.......do what others tell you to do and keep your chin down and your mouth shut.  You answer to the American taxpayer.   

Buffgeek

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 712
  • I love white women!
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2008, 05:11:02 PM »
You are justifying the presence in Iraq by saying they were dying to prevent something.

The question I have is what are they dying to prevent?  A stable Iraq?

I was talking in broader terms about the effect of the Public seeing images that are normally kept from mainsteam media.

I personally wish we had never gone into Iraq as it has destabilized the region at the cost I dont think was necessary and was mishandled from the beginning.

What I hope comes out of this however is another ally like South Korea, Germany, and Japan.

24KT

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 24455
  • Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244
Re: 4,000 U.S. Combat Deaths, and Just a Handful of Images
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2008, 05:25:40 PM »
I was talking in broader terms about the effect of the Public seeing images that are normally kept from mainsteam media.

I personally wish we had never gone into Iraq as it has destabilized the region at the cost I dont think was necessary and was mishandled from the beginning.

What I hope comes out of this however is another ally like South Korea, Germany, and Japan.

If for that reason alone, Americans voters should vote Obama for President.
w