Author Topic: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama  (Read 5301 times)

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2008/07/16/2008-07-16_im_a_lifelong_conservative_activist_and_.html

I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
BY LARRY HUNTER

Wednesday, July 16th 2008, 7:39 PM

I'm a lifelong Republican - a supply-side conservative. I worked in the Reagan White House. I was the chief economist at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce for five years. In 1994, I helped write the Republican Contract with America. I served on Bob Dole's presidential campaign team and was chief economist for Jack Kemp's Empower America.

This November, I'm voting for Barack Obama.

When I first made this decision, many colleagues were shocked. How could I support a candidate with a domestic policy platform that's antithetical to almost everything I believe in?

The answer is simple: Unjustified war and unconstitutional abridgment of individual rights vs. ill-conceived tax and economic policies - this is the difference between venial and mortal sins.

Taxes, economic policy and health care reform matter, of course. But how we extract ourselves from the bloody boondoggle in Iraq, how we avoid getting into a war with Iran and how we preserve our individual rights while dealing with real foreign threats - these are of greater importance.

John McCain would continue the Bush administration's commitment to interventionism and constitutional overreach. Obama promises a humbler engagement with our allies, while promising retaliation against any enemy who dares attack us. That's what conservatism used to mean - and it's what George W. Bush promised as a candidate.

Plus, when it comes to domestic issues, I don't take Obama at his word. That may sound cynical. But the fact that he says just about all the wrong things on domestic issues doesn't bother me as much as it once would have. After all, the Republicans said all the right things - fiscal responsibility, spending restraint - and it didn't mean a thing. It is a sad commentary on American politics today, but it's taken as a given that politicians, all of them, must pander, obfuscate and prevaricate.

Besides, I suspect Obama is more free-market friendly than he lets on. He taught at the University of Chicago, a hotbed of right-of-center thought. His economic advisers, notably Austan Goolsbee, recognize that ordinary citizens stand to gain more from open markets than from government meddling. That's got to rub off.

When it comes to health care, I am hoping Obama quietly recognizes that a crusade against pharmaceutical companies would result in the opposite of any intended effect. And in any event, McCain's plans in this area are deeply problematic, too. Take drug reimportation. McCain (like Obama) says he's perfectly comfortable with this ill-conceived scheme, which would drive research and development dollars away from the next generation of miracle cures.

But overall, based on his embrace of centrist advisers and policies, it seems likely that Obama will turn out to be in the mold of John Kennedy - who was fond of noting that "a rising tide lifts all boats." Over the last few decades, economic growth has made Americans at every income level better off. For all his borderline pessimistic rhetoric, Obama knows this. And I believe he is savvy enough to realize that the real threat to middle-class families and the poor - an economic undertow that drags everyone down - cannot be counteracted by an activist government.

Or maybe not. But here's the thing: Even if my hopes on domestic policy are dashed and Obama reveals himself as an unreconstructed, dyed-in-the-wool, big-government liberal, I'm still voting for him.

These past eight years, we have spent over a trillion dollars on foreign soil - and lost countless lives - and done what I consider irreparable damage to our Constitution.

If economic damage from well-intentioned but misbegotten Obama economic schemes is the ransom we must pay him to clean up this foreign policy mess, then so be it. It's not nearly as costly as enduring four more years of what we suffered the last eight years.

Hunter is the former staff director of the Congressional Joint Economic Committee and president of the Social Security Institute.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2008, 08:49:33 AM »
"I'm a lifelong Republican - a supply-side conservative. I worked in the Reagan White House. I was the chief economist at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce for five years. In 1994, I helped write the Republican Contract with America. I served on Bob Dole's presidential campaign team and was chief economist for Jack Kemp's Empower America."

He sounds like a real lib to me.  Who is this "Reagan" guy, anyway? 

Purge_WTF

  • Guest
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2008, 09:06:50 AM »
  I can sympathize with Hunter. I too would prefer a Conservative President, but I think that Obama will be the lesser of the two evils.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2008, 09:14:34 AM »
  I can sympathize with Hunter. I too would prefer a Conservative President, but I think that Obama will be the lesser of the two evils.

Obama has done more to repair national relations between the USA and Eur/M.E. in the last week than Bush has done in 7 years.

Isn't that sad?

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2008, 09:14:57 AM »
Obama is centrist.  His UHC plan doesn't castrate private insurance companies, it works with them.  I think that's a big mistake but that's the platform the man chose.

I mean it's damn near impossible to paint Obama as a big spending liberal in comparision to McCain who was a partner in crime to the most debt-ridden, free-spending administration in history.

McCain/Bush have just about doubled the national debt in only 7+ years.  

This is a point where being a green senator helps Obama--no nasty record to look at.

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2008, 09:15:18 AM »
  I can sympathize with Hunter. I too would prefer a Conservative President, but I think that Obama will be the lesser of the two evils.

That does seem to be his position and it's pretty much my feeling too.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2008, 09:21:24 AM »
Mccain looks more like Dole every day. 

He is aging terribly.  He had more of that mole removed yesterday and biopsied, then stood in the sun to talk about it.  What was he thinking there? 

He's reacting to obama's moves with identical, smaller moves.  He's imitating him.

He can't stop contradicting himself in interviews... he oddly keeps denying he said things that video proves he did say.

Obama is a weak candidate, and he's looking like JFK next to mcccain.

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2008, 09:37:50 AM »
Mccain looks more like Dole every day. 

He is aging terribly.  He had more of that mole removed yesterday and biopsied, then stood in the sun to talk about it.  What was he thinking there? 

He's reacting to obama's moves with identical, smaller moves.  He's imitating him.

He can't stop contradicting himself in interviews... he oddly keeps denying he said things that video proves he did say.

Obama is a weak candidate, and he's looking like JFK next to mcccain.

every time I see McCain on TV all I can think about is how old, tired and uninspired he appears to be.

The next president is going to have the most grueling and demanding job on the planet. 

Even if I thought McCain had any viable solutions I just don't see him as physically/mentally capable for the job


Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63875
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2008, 10:59:01 AM »
Obama is centrist.  

 ???  He is about as far to the left as a presidential candidate can get. 

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2008, 11:01:55 AM »
???  He is about as far to the left as a presidential candidate can get. 

Partially true, but he and mccain have both come full center on many positions.

He wishes to invade pakistan.
He just told germany that they need to send men to fight in afghanistan.

There are senators with FAR more left leaning.  Of course he is on the left.  But not the furthest, unless you're following that list of 77 bills hand-picked by a right-wing think tank.

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2008, 11:18:38 AM »
???  He is about as far to the left as a presidential candidate can get. 
How so?

He's into gov. tax payouts like Bush.  He's going to work with private insurers on healthcare. 

He's no Paul Wellstone.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63875
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2008, 11:36:32 AM »
How so?

He's into gov. tax payouts like Bush.  He's going to work with private insurers on healthcare. 

He's no Paul Wellstone.

He already admitted he really offers nothing new.  What he offers is the traditional big government, tax and spend liberal policies that have been embraced by Democrats for decades. 

He's far left of center on economic issues.  He wants to raise taxes on millions of Americans. 

He has a firm redistribution of wealth mindset. 

He's left of center on abortion.

He's all over the place on the Second Amendment and the death penalty. 

He's far left of center on homosexual marriage, even attempting to argue that the Bible supports homosexual marriage. 

I could probably list other issues, but it's pretty clear the guy is a leftwing liberal, and I don't have the time right now.  His attempt to run to the center doesn't change the fact he is a new and improved version of Jimmy Carter.   

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5782
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2008, 12:11:30 PM »
He already admitted he really offers nothing new.  What he offers is the traditional big government, tax and spend liberal policies that have been embraced by Democrats for decades. 

He's far left of center on economic issues.  He wants to raise taxes on millions of Americans. 

He has a firm redistribution of wealth mindset. 

He's left of center on abortion.

He's all over the place on the Second Amendment and the death penalty. 

He's far left of center on homosexual marriage, even attempting to argue that the Bible supports homosexual marriage. 

I could probably list other issues, but it's pretty clear the guy is a leftwing liberal, and I don't have the time right now.  His attempt to run to the center doesn't change the fact he is a new and improved version of Jimmy Carter.   
Clinton had the same economic approach and we all remember how that turned out for our country's bottom line.

If McCain is only half as bad as Bush with his spending, he'll increase the debt to only about 12 trillion dollars...while maintaining a hefty deficit.

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2008, 12:19:51 PM »
He already admitted he really offers nothing new.  What he offers is the traditional big government, tax and spend liberal policies that have been embraced by Democrats for decades. 

He's far left of center on economic issues.  He wants to raise taxes on millions of Americans. 

He has a firm redistribution of wealth mindset. 

He's left of center on abortion.

He's all over the place on the Second Amendment and the death penalty. 

He's far left of center on homosexual marriage, even attempting to argue that the Bible supports homosexual marriage. 

I could probably list other issues, but it's pretty clear the guy is a leftwing liberal, and I don't have the time right now.  His attempt to run to the center doesn't change the fact he is a new and improved version of Jimmy Carter.   

I'll take Tax and Spend over Borrow and Spend which is all the Repugs have ever done.

Obama will probably have to do what every other modern Democratic President has done which is clean up the fiscal disaster from the previous Republican Administration

BTW Bum - Don't kid yourself.   The Neo-Con's are all about re-distribution of wealth.  They've taken the wealth of our nation and redistribute it to their friends via "no-bid" contracts, tax credits, and graft.   



240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2008, 01:06:59 PM »
I'll take Tax and Spend over Borrow and Spend which is all the Repugs have ever done.

Obama will probably have to do what every other modern Democratic President has done which is clean up the fiscal disaster from the previous Republican Administration

BTW Bum - Don't kid yourself.   The Neo-Con's are all about re-distribution of wealth.  They've taken the wealth of our nation and redistribute it to their friends via "no-bid" contracts, tax credits, and graft.   

History has shown this to be accurate.

Obama will tax big in order to reduce the deficit.

If you care about the deficit (everyone's overall situation), Obama is your guy.
If you care more about your own tax bracket, McCain is your guy.

It's that simple.


Benny B

  • Time Out
  • Getbig V
  • *
  • Posts: 12407
  • Ron = 'Princess L' & many other gimmicks - FACT!
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2008, 01:09:43 PM »
Ha,ha...I love this thread!  ;D

He's far left of center on homosexual marriage, even attempting to argue that the Bible supports homosexual marriage. 
This is simply incorrect. Obama is against gay marriage, so you can certainly be left of him on this issue.

Quote
Mccain looks more like Dole every day.

You mean an old war hero who ran a lackluster campaign and lost a lopsided election? Hmmm...
!

George Whorewell

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7365
  • TND
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2008, 01:24:11 PM »
I actually read that oped the day it came out about two weeks ago and didn't really give it a second thought. It's funny that you came across the article.

I dont know much about the guy who wrote it, and it suffices to say that I'm sure he believes what he wrote. But when I see lines like this:

Plus, when it comes to domestic issues, I don't take Obama at his word. That may sound cynical. But the fact that he says just about all the wrong things on domestic issues doesn't bother me as much as it once would have. After all, the Republicans said all the right things - fiscal responsibility, spending restraint - and it didn't mean a thing. It is a sad commentary on American politics today, but it's taken as a given that politicians, all of them, must pander, obfuscate and prevaricate.

[ So by this guys logic, having the wrong position on domestic policies is really just a covert strategy for Obama to get elected and then what happens? Nothing? Everything changes? Things change a little?]


Besides, I suspect Obama is more free-market friendly than he lets on. He taught at the University of Chicago, a hotbed of right-of-center thought. His economic advisers, notably Austan Goolsbee, recognize that ordinary citizens stand to gain more from open markets than from government meddling. That's got to rub off.

[ Once again, I fail to see the logic in this guys argument. Because he has publicly presented himself as a redistibute the wealth, enemy of the free market, he now really isn't an enemy of the free market? Another ploy to get elected I suppose? Is his economic advisor the same guy who helped create Obama's absurdly impossible social security and taxation plan? AND BY THE WAY--> UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO A HOTEBED OF RIGHT OF CENTER THOUGHT?  Unless there is another University of Chicago in another country somewhere, that is an out and out falsehood. ]


When it comes to health care, I am hoping Obama quietly recognizes that a crusade against pharmaceutical companies would result in the opposite of any intended effect. And in any event, McCain's plans in this area are deeply problematic, too. Take drug reimportation. McCain (like Obama) says he's perfectly comfortable with this ill-conceived scheme, which would drive research and development dollars away from the next generation of miracle cures.

[ Ok, so on this issue, he disagrees with Obama's position and likes McCains a little bit better, but not much.]

When I read this article 2 weeks ago I remembered thinking that the article should have been called something else entirely. The problem with the article is that the author SAYS explicitly that even if Obama is a disaster he's still voting for him because he hates the Bush administration. The article goes through most of Obama's positions and either makes excuses for them or denounces them, then proceeds by saying the self proclaimed life long Republican will vote Democrat. I fail to see how this is a revelation or something deserving much thought or merit. Labeling yourself as a lifelong "conservative activist", then denouncing your political party to vote for someone who is on the opposite end of everything your party stands for, leads me to believe the guy who wrote this either has an axe to grind, is looking to get appointed to Obama's cabinet, or is a total fraud. Either way this article is a joke.

Bush isn't running for a third term & both houses are majority democrat. The only people that will bare the grunt of this kind of backward thinking is the American public with Obama as president. GW will be in Crawford Texas shooting deer or doing whatever the fuck he does.

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2008, 02:29:08 PM »
I actually read that oped the day it came out about two weeks ago and didn't really give it a second thought. It's funny that you came across the article.

I dont know much about the guy who wrote it, and it suffices to say that I'm sure he believes what he wrote. But when I see lines like this:

Plus, when it comes to domestic issues, I don't take Obama at his word. That may sound cynical. But the fact that he says just about all the wrong things on domestic issues doesn't bother me as much as it once would have. After all, the Republicans said all the right things - fiscal responsibility, spending restraint - and it didn't mean a thing. It is a sad commentary on American politics today, but it's taken as a given that politicians, all of them, must pander, obfuscate and prevaricate.

[ So by this guys logic, having the wrong position on domestic policies is really just a covert strategy for Obama to get elected and then what happens? Nothing? Everything changes? Things change a little?]


Besides, I suspect Obama is more free-market friendly than he lets on. He taught at the University of Chicago, a hotbed of right-of-center thought. His economic advisers, notably Austan Goolsbee, recognize that ordinary citizens stand to gain more from open markets than from government meddling. That's got to rub off.

[ Once again, I fail to see the logic in this guys argument. Because he has publicly presented himself as a redistibute the wealth, enemy of the free market, he now really isn't an enemy of the free market? Another ploy to get elected I suppose? Is his economic advisor the same guy who helped create Obama's absurdly impossible social security and taxation plan? AND BY THE WAY--> UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO A HOTEBED OF RIGHT OF CENTER THOUGHT?  Unless there is another University of Chicago in another country somewhere, that is an out and out falsehood. ]

When it comes to health care, I am hoping Obama quietly recognizes that a crusade against pharmaceutical companies would result in the opposite of any intended effect. And in any event, McCain's plans in this area are deeply problematic, too. Take drug reimportation. McCain (like Obama) says he's perfectly comfortable with this ill-conceived scheme, which would drive research and development dollars away from the next generation of miracle cures.

[ Ok, so on this issue, he disagrees with Obama's position and likes McCains a little bit better, but not much.]

When I read this article 2 weeks ago I remembered thinking that the article should have been called something else entirely. The problem with the article is that the author SAYS explicitly that even if Obama is a disaster he's still voting for him because he hates the Bush administration. The article goes through most of Obama's positions and either makes excuses for them or denounces them, then proceeds by saying the self proclaimed life long Republican will vote Democrat. I fail to see how this is a revelation or something deserving much thought or merit. Labeling yourself as a lifelong "conservative activist", then denouncing your political party to vote for someone who is on the opposite end of everything your party stands for, leads me to believe the guy who wrote this either has an axe to grind, is looking to get appointed to Obama's cabinet, or is a total fraud. Either way this article is a joke.

Bush isn't running for a third term & both houses are majority democrat. The only people that will bare the grunt of this kind of backward thinking is the American public with Obama as president. GW will be in Crawford Texas shooting deer or doing whatever the fuck he does.

All decent points but it seems to me that this last statement from the author suggests that he believes that Bush is running for a 3rd term via proxy by McCain

"If economic damage from well-intentioned but misbegotten Obama economic schemes is the ransom we must pay him to clean up this foreign policy mess, then so be it. It's not nearly as costly as enduring four more years of what we suffered the last eight years."

It seems that Hunter is following the old adage that most people will be more motivated to avoid pain than to gain pleasure and he (in my opinion) perceives Obama as the choice to avoid pain.   

I also don't get your statement regarding the University of Chicago.  Isn't that the place were Leo Strauss (aka father of neoconservatism) and Milton Friedman taught? 

IMO - the charge of "redistribution of wealth" is a catch phrase that the right uses to scare people.  The last 7 years have seen a vast redistribution of the wealth of the national treasury into the hands of a small group of friends of the administration.   The massive debt that they've racked up is nothing if not a redistribution of wealth.

Also, the Dems would need 60 seats to have a viable majority in the Senate





TerminalPower

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 641
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2008, 02:54:28 PM »
Obama hasn't run a donut shop or any business successfully.  He has no credibility/history on finance, politics or leadership. 

He has mouthed his way this far with ZERO substance or experience. 
1

Benny B

  • Time Out
  • Getbig V
  • *
  • Posts: 12407
  • Ron = 'Princess L' & many other gimmicks - FACT!
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2008, 03:00:50 PM »
Obama hasn't run a donut shop or any business successfully.
And what business has McCain run sucessfully? Cindy McCain's inherited beer distributorship does not count.

Quote
He has no credibility/history on finance, politics or leadership. 

He has mouthed his way this far with ZERO substance or experience. 
Gee, I wonder who you are going to vote for?  ::)
!

TerminalPower

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 641
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2008, 03:26:31 PM »
And what business has McCain run sucessfully? Cindy McCain's inherited beer distributorship does not count.
Gee, I wonder who you are going to vote for?  ::)

McCain is far more experienced and runs a much longer track record to review than that of Barack "The Mouth" Obama. 

I am voting for McCain but he wasn't even my 3rd choice...democracy doesn't always go the way we want, but I am glad we have it.
1

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2008, 03:32:41 PM »
It is interesting how many former conservatives back Obama over McCain.

I can't even think of one former "lib" who backs McCain (though I'm sure there are some - not counting his buddy Lieberman)

TerminalPower

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 641
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2008, 03:33:56 PM »
It is interesting how many former conservatives back Obama over McCain.

I can't even think of one former "lib" who backs McCain (though I'm sure there are some - not counting his buddy Lieberman)

You live in a very small circle of friends.
1

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41015
  • one dwells in nirvana
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2008, 03:39:05 PM »
You live in a very small circle of friends.

wtf - you don't even know me.

my statement was based on what I see in the media,  like the guy who wrote the story in the first post of this thread, and I qualified it by saying "I'm sure there are some"


Eyeball Chambers

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14344
  • Would you hold still? You're making me fuck up...
Re: I'm a lifelong conservative activist and I'm backing Barack Obama
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2008, 03:44:20 PM »
The answer is simple: Unjustified war and unconstitutional abridgment of individual rights vs. ill-conceived tax and economic policies - this is the difference between venial and mortal sins.

The answer is simple: Unjustified war and unconstitutional abridgment of individual rights vs. ill-conceived tax and economic policies - this is the difference between venial and mortal sins.

The answer is simple: Unjustified war and unconstitutional abridgment of individual rights vs. ill-conceived tax and economic policies - this is the difference between venial and mortal sins.

The answer is simple: Unjustified war and unconstitutional abridgment of individual rights vs. ill-conceived tax and economic policies - this is the difference between venial and mortal sins.

The answer is simple: Unjustified war and unconstitutional abridgment of individual rights vs. ill-conceived tax and economic policies - this is the difference between venial and mortal sins.

The answer is simple: Unjustified war and unconstitutional abridgment of individual rights vs. ill-conceived tax and economic policies - this is the difference between venial and mortal sins.

The answer is simple: Unjustified war and unconstitutional abridgment of individual rights vs. ill-conceived tax and economic policies - this is the difference between venial and mortal sins.

The answer is simple: Unjustified war and unconstitutional abridgment of individual rights vs. ill-conceived tax and economic policies - this is the difference between venial and mortal sins.

The answer is simple: Unjustified war and unconstitutional abridgment of individual rights vs. ill-conceived tax and economic policies - this is the difference between venial and mortal sins.

  :)
S