Author Topic: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion  (Read 1249 times)

OzmO

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US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« on: July 31, 2008, 09:46:05 AM »
    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080731124350.si8k6wlc&show_article=1


Eleven US soldiers were killed in Iraq in July, the lowest monthly toll since the 2003 invasion, according Pentagon figures, highlighting what US commanders say is a marked drop in overall violence.

The number compares with the deadliest month of November 2004 when 137 American troops were slain, an independent toll by icasualties.org showed. The previous low was in May this year when 19 soldiers were killed.

Since the US-led invasion of March 2003 that toppled now executed dictator Saddam Hussein, a total of 4,125 US troops have been killed in Iraq, according to independent website icasualties.org.

The downward trend began in the middle of last year after a US troop "surge", although there were two spikes in bloodshed in March and April when fierce fighting erupted between Shiite militiamen and US-led forces.

Icasualties.org said the number of Iraqi civilian dead fell to 302 in July, the lowest since April 2005, from 373 in June while the toll among Iraqi security forces rose in July to 91 from 77.

The commander of US forces in Iraq, General David Petraeus, said in an interview published two days ago that overall violence was falling to almost "normal" levels.

But he warned that the trend could be reversed by "sensational attacks" such as two bombings on Monday that rocked Baghdad and the northern oil hub of Kirkuk in which about 56 Iraqis were killed and more than 200 wounded.

"If you could reduce these sensational attacks further, I think you are almost approaching a level of normal or latent violence," Petraeus told USA Today.

"The fact that the levels of violence have come down so significantly and stayed down now for some two-and-a-half months... indicates there is a degree of durability."

Icasualties.org estimates that a total of 42,922 civilians have died since it began tallying figures in March 2005, but warns that its count cannot be verified, and the actual toll is much higher.

The United States and Iraq are still trying to hammer out an agreement governing US troops levels in the country beyond 2008 when the UN mandate covering the presence of foreign soldiers expires.

In principle, Thursday was the deadline set in November by US President George W. Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki to sign a Status of Forces Agreement.

Maliki this month shook the White House by saying he was in favour of setting a date for the withdrawal of US combat troops in Iraq, where the US force currently totals about 142,500.

The White House said earlier this month it did not think Baghdad and Washington would meet the July 31 deadline for the pact, which could be a few days or a couple of weeks ago.

Iraqi Interior Minister Jawad Bolani said on Monday that he believed they were "moving in the right direction" towards concluding an agreement, despite some opposition in Iraq.

Radical anti-American Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr said in a statement on Thursday that he objected to a deal with the "occupier" and urged Iraqis to stand up against the pact.

Asked whether Iraqi troops could fill the void created by a US withdrawal, Bolani said the issue was being evaluated by his ministry against factors such as experience and training of Iraqi forces.

To date 10 of Iraq's 18 provinces have been handed over to the Iraqis.

"After all that perhaps we can determine, look into the issue of decreasing the forces or decreasing the amount of personnel there," he said, adding that Iraqi forces had demonstrated their ability to contain the "threat of terrorism."

Fury

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2008, 10:01:54 AM »
I thought the surge was supposed to be a failure?

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2008, 10:17:25 AM »
I thought the surge was supposed to be a failure?

no, the surge was a solution to a failed war.

The surge should have been done on day 1.

Wait, the war shouldn't have been done at all.


But yes, the surge has helped to slow violence, but we don't know the real outcome yet.  we are NOT YET AT PRE-SURGE LEVELS.  So either the bad guys are all dead, or they're hiding, waiting to come out til the coast is clear.


Either way, declaring a victory when we don't yet know what it's like without us there is silly.  but then again, bush declared 'mission accomplished' back in what, 2004?  how did that work out?  ;)

So chances are, we're declaring a 2nd victory, only to have shit violence come right back up on the next pres' watch.

OzmO

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2008, 10:18:40 AM »
I thought the surge was supposed to be a failure?

Many predicted it would be.

I was very skeptical.

I am very happy it seems to be working along with that other thing many are pointing to as the reason things are better.

You can't really blame people for the skepticism however.  We were there for 3-4 years in serious battle before the big brains that make up the powers to be, figured they needed more troops.

Decker

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2008, 10:23:30 AM »
The Surge is lipstick on a pig.

Great, only 11 families were ruined in July with the news that their loved one is dead.

Strike up the band.

And for those Iraqis that we liberated, hell, only 300+ of you lucky bastards are dying per month.

Pretty soon we'll run out of Iraqi targets.

Then on to the next foreign policy disaster.

Fury

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2008, 10:30:57 AM »
The Surge is lipstick on a pig.

Great, only 11 families were ruined in July with the news that their loved one is dead.

Strike up the band.

And for those Iraqis that we liberated, hell, only 300+ of you lucky bastards are dying per month.

Pretty soon we'll run out of Iraqi targets.

Then on to the next foreign policy disaster.

You are the whiniest twat I've ever seen. Stick a dick in your mouth and stfu.

no, the surge was a solution to a failed war.

The surge should have been done on day 1.

Wait, the war shouldn't have been done at all.


But yes, the surge has helped to slow violence, but we don't know the real outcome yet.  we are NOT YET AT PRE-SURGE LEVELS.  So either the bad guys are all dead, or they're hiding, waiting to come out til the coast is clear.


Either way, declaring a victory when we don't yet know what it's like without us there is silly.  but then again, bush declared 'mission accomplished' back in what, 2004?  how did that work out?  ;)

So chances are, we're declaring a 2nd victory, only to have shit violence come right back up on the next pres' watch.

It was supposed to be a failure according to many Getbiggers and Obama himself. Looks pretty successful to me. Like HH6 said, the two biggest reasons for the violence in Iraq have been decimated. The Mehdi Army was shattered and the few senior leaders who haven't been killed or captured yet are in Iran and AQI has been all but destroyed.

Sure, it should've been done from the beginning but that has nothing to do with the fact that it looks pretty successful.


OzmO

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2008, 10:32:14 AM »
The Surge is lipstick on a pig.

Great, only 11 families were ruined in July with the news that their loved one is dead.

Strike up the band.

And for those Iraqis that we liberated, hell, only 300+ of you lucky bastards are dying per month.

Pretty soon we'll run out of Iraqi targets.

Then on to the next foreign policy disaster.

Good news is good news Deck.   I agree.  It's not the be all that ends all.  But at least we are not talking about 50 dead.  And it's a step in the right direction anyway.

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2008, 10:47:00 AM »
Sure, it should've been done from the beginning but that has nothing to do with the fact that it looks pretty successful.

it's not even over yet.  How can you judge it a success?  Violence has subsided, but that happened once befoe when bush declared mission accomplished.

Then what happened?  the terrorists who had been vacationing came out their doors and started blowing shit up again.

i"m sure you can understand the need to wait 1-2 years to avaluate if violence pops right back up once our men roll out, so we don't wrongly dclare victory a second time, right?

Straw Man

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2008, 10:52:57 AM »
A large part of the success of "the surge"  is the result of bribes to the Sunni's to stop shooting at our guys


Fury

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2008, 10:57:28 AM »
it's not even over yet.  How can you judge it a success?  Violence has subsided, but that happened once befoe when bush declared mission accomplished.

Then what happened?  the terrorists who had been vacationing came out their doors and started blowing shit up again.

i"m sure you can understand the need to wait 1-2 years to avaluate if violence pops right back up once our men roll out, so we don't wrongly dclare victory a second time, right?

Again, it did what it was supposed to. It quelled the violence. Is it permanent? Maybe. We don't know. But they intended to stamp out the sectarian violence and mass killings and for the most part, they did. Or are you going to deny that?

It's a success. A long term success? Don't know. You don't either.

But, looking at this and then listening to HH6 lay out the facts that the Mehdi Army and AQI (the two groups responsible for the majority of the violence) having now been all but destroyed, I would say the probability of it being successful is probably good. Of course it could all fall apart at any minute, but again. They stamped out the violence and attack levels are at the lowest they've been since the war started.

OzmO

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2008, 10:59:17 AM »
After hearing about roadside bombs and and market bombs I'm very glad it's only 5 now.

headhuntersix

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2008, 11:00:59 AM »
Well actually no..the sunni awakining or SOI movement happened on a small level in one of the provinces because the Sunni's got sick of the killing. We had a small model that we took country wide. It did/does involve paying them...they get about 300 a month. We pay the IA abot 220 a month and we have been working for about the last 6 months on lower the pay of the SOI militia's. We are looking to take about 30% of the SOI guys into the army or police. That number involves those interested and those fit for duty. The rest are being "off ramped" into other projetcs, including public works groups with the same or near same pay and even and oil industry security force. Our problem or issue is finding jobs for them. The more peace u get the more infrastructure u can rebuild...so the surge has worked.  Decker u need to get past the reasons for war...we're were we are at now.
L

Straw Man

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2008, 11:04:15 AM »
well I'm not there (thank Jebus) and you are (or have been) so all I've got to go on is what I read on the interweb and we both know that is not always the best source.

The numbers mentioned in this article are quite a bit higher:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2413200.ece

btw - I have no problem with this.  It's probably much cheaper in the long run


headhuntersix

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2008, 11:18:08 AM »
AMERICAN forces are paying Sunni insurgents hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash to switch sides and help them to defeat Al-Qaeda in Iraq


The Sunday Times has witnessed at first hand the enormous sums of cash changing hands. One sheikh in a town south of Baghdad was given $38,000 (£19,000) and promised a further $189,000 over three months to drive Al-Qaeda fighters from a nearby camp


We're paying about 93,000 guys and I think they 're trying to bolster the various tribal leaders so they get paid and they pay their own guys. We don't pay each guy. It comes out to about 300 buck per man per month. We do ensure they get paid, it would be unfortunately obvious if they did not. The info i have is from a brief we received from P4, about a month ago. That article totals the amounts, same thing i guess.
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Decker

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2008, 11:43:53 AM »
You are the whiniest twat I've ever seen. Stick a dick in your mouth and stfu.

....

Get lost Eldon.

It's amazing how you always use cock, jizz facewashes, blowjobs, and anal intrusion to make your pathetic statements.

You have gender issues apparently.

Like I said, "Fuck off Eldon."

Decker

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2008, 11:44:57 AM »
it's not even over yet.  How can you judge it a success?  Violence has subsided, but that happened once befoe when bush declared mission accomplished.

Then what happened?  the terrorists who had been vacationing came out their doors and started blowing shit up again.

i"m sure you can understand the need to wait 1-2 years to avaluate if violence pops right back up once our men roll out, so we don't wrongly dclare victory a second time, right?
Excellent point.

Glomming onto temporal results is all these people have left.

Decker

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2008, 11:45:36 AM »
A large part of the success of "the surge"  is the result of bribes to the Sunni's to stop shooting at our guys


I believe that was The Awakening.

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2008, 11:56:17 AM »
I believe that was The Awakening.

I'd wake up for a nice cash payment too

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Re: US monthly toll in Iraq at lowest since invasion
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2008, 12:13:32 PM »
That's great news.  I wonder if Obama still believes the surge will increase violence?