Author Topic: creatine kinase  (Read 4608 times)

Triton

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creatine kinase
« on: July 31, 2008, 10:10:46 PM »
Hi,
Ive just finished 12week cycle Sus250 only, 2ml per week, and have noticed numbness and tingling in left hand. And after doctors visit he found a count of 3000 for creatine kinase instead of 100 as it should be.
Numbness may be from pinched nerve, but elevated creatine kinase? , do you think the Sus has caused this. Any info appreciated.
Cheers

Vet

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2008, 11:37:05 PM »
Hi,
Ive just finished 12week cycle Sus250 only, 2ml per week, and have noticed numbness and tingling in left hand. And after doctors visit he found a count of 3000 for creatine kinase instead of 100 as it should be.
Numbness may be from pinched nerve, but elevated creatine kinase? , do you think the Sus has caused this. Any info appreciated.
Cheers

When was the last time you worked out before you had the bloodwork drawn and how intense was the workout?  How was your BUN?

Triton

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2008, 01:45:09 PM »
Had test on Monday, last workout Sunday. Usual intensity hard but not crazy. Sorry but what is BUN.
Thanks
Doc said to have week off then have another test

ChinoXL

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2008, 06:46:33 PM »
stop your workouts for about a week or two.  COMPLETELY.  slowly work back into your routine and monitor the cpk levels.  after a good hour to two hour long, high intensity workout your cpk will be elevated to about the 300-500 level in a normal person.  if when you get back to it, your level rises to the same 3000+ levels, you have a problem.  where did you get your gear from?  mex, hg, online etc???

Alex23

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2008, 07:33:32 PM »
stop your workouts for about a week or two.  COMPLETELY.  slowly work back into your routine and monitor the cpk levels.  after a good hour to two hour long, high intensity workout your cpk will be elevated to about the 300-500 level in a normal person.  if when you get back to it, your level rises to the same 3000+ levels, you have a problem.  where did you get your gear from?  mex, hg, online etc???

Chino, are your levels back to normal? did you ever found out what caused it?

Vet

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2008, 07:37:20 PM »
Had test on Monday, last workout Sunday. Usual intensity hard but not crazy. Sorry but what is BUN.
Thanks
Doc said to have week off then have another test


are you taking any "statin" type drugs?

ChinoXL

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2008, 09:06:48 AM »

are you taking any "statin" type drugs?

that is a very good question.  that is an all too common side from statins.

ChinoXL

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2008, 09:43:19 AM »
Chino, are your levels back to normal? did you ever found out what caused it?

I still have not zeroed in on my ailment.  all I have done is occupied my time with my job and not beat myself up about it anymore.  I train three times a week and at only two exercises per bodypart in two supersets.  IE: incline bench to failure and wide grip chins to failure x 4 sets then dumbell flyes to failure and reverse grip barbell rows to failure x 4.  I have lost most of my bulk (218 skinny fat lbs at '5"10) yet retain above average strength.  I still keep track of my cpk levels, which are chronically high, but have lost the determination to find the root of my problem.  I have seen a nephrologist, neurologist and three different FP doctors and they all don't have a fucken clue.  it's been frustrating to say the least.  for a time I felt that I could deal with it so much better if I only knew what and where.  fuck it, I am still bigger and stronger than most. I am still a good father. I am still a boss in a very important part of the pharmacological process.  I am still me.  the 270lb zit infested, puffy faced time bomb of 2001-2005 that I used to think was me was just a figment of my imagination.  chinoXL was a science-fictional character that I chemically created and am and WILL continue to pay the price for.  oh well, it was fun while it lasted.  now that time is gone.  steroid induced rhabdomyolysis is the last avenue I was exploring.  it seems to be the answer, but until I can make the time to go see a neuromuscular specialist in Houston I won't know for sure.

Triton, I hope you recover.  I hope you don't have to sit and watch all your hard work go down the drain.  take the time off and let your body rest.  recovery is easily ignored when you are on a cycle.  you feel like you can keep going and going when in all actuality, your body is begging for a break.  overtraining is very real and the severity of it is often downplayed.  according to one of my doctors, overtraining, 300+ grams of protein a day, 10-20g of creatine a day, 1 to 2g of random hormones a week, lack of recovery time taken and stress all contributed to my problems.  I am not saying yours is the same, but the beginning of yours is eerily similar........

Alex23

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2008, 01:39:22 PM »
I still have not zeroed in on my ailment.  all I have done is occupied my time with my job and not beat myself up about it anymore.  I train three times a week and at only two exercises per bodypart in two supersets.  IE: incline bench to failure and wide grip chins to failure x 4 sets then dumbell flyes to failure and reverse grip barbell rows to failure x 4.  I have lost most of my bulk (218 skinny fat lbs at '5"10) yet retain above average strength.  I still keep track of my cpk levels, which are chronically high, but have lost the determination to find the root of my problem.  I have seen a nephrologist, neurologist and three different FP doctors and they all don't have a fucken clue.  it's been frustrating to say the least.  for a time I felt that I could deal with it so much better if I only knew what and where.  fuck it, I am still bigger and stronger than most. I am still a good father. I am still a boss in a very important part of the pharmacological process.  I am still me.  the 270lb zit infested, puffy faced time bomb of 2001-2005 that I used to think was me was just a figment of my imagination.  chinoXL was a science-fictional character that I chemically created and am and WILL continue to pay the price for.  oh well, it was fun while it lasted.  now that time is gone.  steroid induced rhabdomyolysis is the last avenue I was exploring.  it seems to be the answer, but until I can make the time to go see a neuromuscular specialist in Houston I won't know for sure.

Triton, I hope you recover.  I hope you don't have to sit and watch all your hard work go down the drain.  take the time off and let your body rest.  recovery is easily ignored when you are on a cycle.  you feel like you can keep going and going when in all actuality, your body is begging for a break.  overtraining is very real and the severity of it is often downplayed.  according to one of my doctors, overtraining, 300+ grams of protein a day, 10-20g of creatine a day, 1 to 2g of random hormones a week, lack of recovery time taken and stress all contributed to my problems.  I am not saying yours is the same, but the beginning of yours is eerily similar........

Spoken like a true seldom warrior. Glad to see you're somewhat feeling better. I remember we spoke about a year ago and you were pretty down about the whole thing.

I hope the juice monkeys on here will learn from your experience. >:(

Vet

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2008, 07:17:30 PM »
that is a very good question.  that is an all too common side from statins.

Yup.  I have a whole soapbox about those drugs and the overprescribing of them. 

Vet

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2008, 07:23:41 PM »
I still have not zeroed in on my ailment.  all I have done is occupied my time with my job and not beat myself up about it anymore.  I train three times a week and at only two exercises per bodypart in two supersets.  IE: incline bench to failure and wide grip chins to failure x 4 sets then dumbell flyes to failure and reverse grip barbell rows to failure x 4.  I have lost most of my bulk (218 skinny fat lbs at '5"10) yet retain above average strength.  I still keep track of my cpk levels, which are chronically high, but have lost the determination to find the root of my problem.  I have seen a nephrologist, neurologist and three different FP doctors and they all don't have a fucken clue.  it's been frustrating to say the least.  for a time I felt that I could deal with it so much better if I only knew what and where.  fuck it, I am still bigger and stronger than most. I am still a good father. I am still a boss in a very important part of the pharmacological process.  I am still me.  the 270lb zit infested, puffy faced time bomb of 2001-2005 that I used to think was me was just a figment of my imagination.  chinoXL was a science-fictional character that I chemically created and am and WILL continue to pay the price for.  oh well, it was fun while it lasted.  now that time is gone.  steroid induced rhabdomyolysis is the last avenue I was exploring.  it seems to be the answer, but until I can make the time to go see a neuromuscular specialist in Houston I won't know for sure.

Triton, I hope you recover.  I hope you don't have to sit and watch all your hard work go down the drain.  take the time off and let your body rest.  recovery is easily ignored when you are on a cycle.  you feel like you can keep going and going when in all actuality, your body is begging for a break.  overtraining is very real and the severity of it is often downplayed.  according to one of my doctors, overtraining, 300+ grams of protein a day, 10-20g of creatine a day, 1 to 2g of random hormones a week, lack of recovery time taken and stress all contributed to my problems.  I am not saying yours is the same, but the beginning of yours is eerily similar........

You'll have to have muscle biopsies to diagnoses rhabdomyolosis, and unfortunately, with it having happened so long ago, there may no longer be inflammation present.  You may only have scaring. 


I've had CK values over 2000 (measured in my lab at work) the morning after an intense leg workout.   I've talked to my doctor about it, partially because capture myopathy (capture stress inducing severe muscle breakdown in wild species leading to renal failure and ultimately death) is something I have to deal with with many of the animals I work with daily. 

One of the key things is to make absolutely certian that you are hydrated.  I've seen whitetailed deer with CK's over 800,000 after getting stuck in the mud.   Treatment of that fawn basically was antiinflammatories and HUGE amounts of IV fluids (we ran her at 4'x maintenance for the first 3 days).   My understanding with humans and exercise induced myopathy/rhabdomyolosis treatment is basically the same....

Alex23

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2008, 07:31:08 PM »
You'll have to have muscle biopsies to diagnoses rhabdomyolosis, and unfortunately, with it having happened so long ago, there may no longer be inflammation present.  You may only have scaring. 

I've had CK values over 2000 (measured in my lab at work) the morning after an intense leg workout.   I've talked to my doctor about it, partially because capture myopathy (capture stress inducing severe muscle breakdown in wild species leading to renal failure and ultimately death) is something I have to deal with with many of the animals I work with daily. 

One of the key things is to make absolutely certian that you are hydrated.  I've seen whitetailed deer with CK's over 800,000 after getting stuck in the mud.   Treatment of that fawn basically was antiinflammatories and HUGE amounts of IV fluids (we ran her at 4'x maintenance for the first 3 days).   My understanding with humans and exercise induced myopathy/rhabdomyolosis treatment is basically the same....

Very informative Vet. Are you saying that overtraining alone could be the cause of very high CK level in some individuals? That would shut a lot of mouth on here and I would agree with you. I know 2 guys who went for Uralysis days following very hard leg days and showed up with blood cells in their urine, low count but still above normal.

Chino, have were you using UG crap? During undergrad biochem, I've done some research on Benzyls in general and their effect on T-tubulules and other tissues. Even low levels can cause duress. UG is usually packed with BB and BA.


ChinoXL

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2008, 08:37:14 PM »
Spoken like a true seldom warrior. Glad to see you're somewhat feeling better. I remember we spoke about a year ago and you were pretty down about the whole thing.

I hope the juice monkeys on here will learn from your experience. >:(

I have been through quite a bit in my short life.  three near death experiences,  4 years and two military campaigns, six month in d-seg confinement, an unfair BC discharge due to steroids, countless sea stories spanning across 4 continents, three close child hood friends who committed suicide, two divorces, the placement of my 3 kids with their mothers and the loss of the one stress reliever that I loved so much (bodybuilding) through my own irresponsibility and probable genetic predisposition.  yet, I know that I will persevere.  I always have.  trust me, i have had my dick kicked in the dirt too many times to cry about it anymore.  the way i look at it I have 15-20 more years to accomplish as much as possible and I'm not going to let it pass me by.  My autobiography will be quite the read.

Alex, thank you for your continued concern.  I have always liked your persona and the type of physique you present as they are both very reminiscent of my own. (before the bullshit and on a smaller scale of course ;))  I continue posting here simply out of interest in something I grew up into and of course to state my unwavering opinion about anything I feel strongly about.  if you see me in a thread, bottom line is that my opinion about that will most likely be dead on.  

You'll have to have muscle biopsies to diagnoses rhabdomyolosis, and unfortunately, with it having happened so long ago, there may no longer be inflammation present.  You may only have scaring. 

I've had one.  nothing came back abnormal.  after that, I was convinced that I was better and jumped back into my old routine.  I easily bulked back up to 245lbs last Sept.-Dec.  and kept up with blood work and as I noticed the abnormally tough time I was having keeping the weight on and increased fatigue and STILL elevated cpk tests, decided to give it a rest, once again.  I cannot escape being overtrained.  Even after seriously modifying my programs.  I feel my muscles are permanently damaged.

I've had CK values over 2000 (measured in my lab at work) the morning after an intense leg workout.   I've talked to my doctor about it, partially because capture myopathy (capture stress inducing severe muscle breakdown in wild species leading to renal failure and ultimately death) is something I have to deal with with many of the animals I work with daily. 

One of the key things is to make absolutely certian that you are hydrated.  I've seen whitetailed deer with CK's over 800,000 after getting stuck in the mud.   Treatment of that fawn basically was antiinflammatories and HUGE amounts of IV fluids (we ran her at 4'x maintenance for the first 3 days).   My understanding with humans and exercise induced myopathy/rhabdomyolosis treatment is basically the same....

Very informative Vet. Are you saying that overtraining alone could be the cause of very high CK level in some individuals? That would shut a lot of mouth on here and I would agree with you. I know 2 guys who went for Uralysis days following very hard leg days and showed up with blood cells in their urine, low count but still above normal.

overtraining IS the cause of most of our posters' elevated cpk levels Alex.  its the ignoring of this that causes the more permanent damage.


Chino, have were you using UG crap? During undergrad biochem, I've done some research on Benzyls in general and their effect on T-tubulules and other tissues. Even low levels can cause duress. UG is usually packed with BB and BA.

I, in my infinite wisdom,  ::) used primarily QV, Animal Power, Mexican Organon, Tornel, Loeffler, Denkall, and Brovel products in my days as I have almost always been near a border. I have used foreign HG gear when I was in other countries such as Thai Dbols(pinks), Anadrol(green) and various other supposed higher quality products. I have used cynomel once.  I have been wondering if maybe heavy metals may have been a factor.  ???


theworm

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2008, 08:43:04 PM »
ck of 3000 is a lot,,,ask him to test for CKMB, and troponin,,,both more specific for the heart muscle....
you are gay.

Alex23

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2008, 09:48:57 PM »
I have been through quite a bit in my short life.  three near death experiences,  4 years and two military campaigns, six month in d-seg confinement, an unfair BC discharge due to steroids, countless sea stories spanning across 4 continents, three close child hood friends who committed suicide, two divorces, the placement of my 3 kids with their mothers and the loss of the one stress reliever that I loved so much (bodybuilding) through my own irresponsibility and probable genetic predisposition.  yet, I know that I will persevere.  I always have.  trust me, i have had my dick kicked in the dirt too many times to cry about it anymore.  the way i look at it I have 15-20 more years to accomplish as much as possible and I'm not going to let it pass me by.  My autobiography will be quite the read.

Alex, thank you for your continued concern.  I have always liked your persona and the type of physique you present as they are both very reminiscent of my own. (before the bullshit and on a smaller scale of course ;))  I continue posting here simply out of interest in something I grew up into and of course to state my unwavering opinion about anything I feel strongly about.  if you see me in a thread, bottom line is that my opinion about that will most likely be dead on.  


Brothers in arms. 15-20yrs? give me a break, a tuff guy like you will outlive most of us.  ;D




Vet

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2008, 10:26:57 PM »
Very informative Vet. Are you saying that overtraining alone could be the cause of very high CK level in some individuals? That would shut a lot of mouth on here and I would agree with you. I know 2 guys who went for Uralysis days following very hard leg days and showed up with blood cells in their urine, low count but still above normal.




Sort of.  I'm saying that CK levels will be elevated post intense exercise.  The degree of elevation is dependant on alot of factors.  Capture myopathy is a disease process seen in animals secondary to extreme exertion while being captured (in a trap, net, by hand, or by being chased).  Basically what happens in the animal is that muscular exertion leads to formation of lactic acid, which during extreme exercise will build up within the blood, causing a drop in blood pH.  This will negatively affect heart output by affecting potassium within the blood, further making things worse because the heart won't/cant pump blood to the muscle as its needed to provide the necessary oxygen.  As the muscle is damaged, the CK enzyme is released into the blood stream. 

This is the same thing you see with athletes who exhert themselves in an extreme manner.   It is important to determine the isoenzyme of CK that is in the blood if its present at an extreme level.  CK-MM is present highest in muscle (so elevated levels indicate skeletal muscle damage), CK MB is present in the heart (So elevated levels indicate heart muscle damage) and CK BB is in the brain.   

Kidney failure occurs secondary to muscle releasing myoglobin into the blood stream as its damaged. Myoglobin will severely damage the kidney, leading to further circulation problems and eventually kidney failure.  If the renal tubules are damaged, you may see evidence of blood in the urine.  The myoglobin is excreted by the kidney, and depending on the way the urinalysis is done, may be mistaken for hemoglobin in the urine, a marker for blood in the urine.   Because of differences in the source of CK, a mildly elevated CK doesn't necessarily mean there will be renal problems, however a substantially elevated CK requires diuresis (fluid therapy) because muscle tissue is the only one present in the blood with enough mass to generate capture myopathy level CK elevations. 

To me the people who are most likely at risk for an elevated CK post exercise are people like myself---Heavyweight to SHW powerlifters or other strenght athletes in intense training where maximal weights are being lifted creating a signficant short term oxygen debt (and we all know the lung conditioning of SHW powerlifters) or underconditioned gym goers who for some stupid reason get caught up in the exercise mode and do set, after set, after set without realizing they are overexerting their bodies or competitive bodybuilders who are dehydrated secondary to drugs or dieting working for a long period of time during an intense workout---say precontest.  Performance Drugs may have an effect, not because they cause myositis, but because they can signficantly effect cardiovascular output starting off the cascade. 
   

Vet

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2008, 10:36:29 PM »
 I've had one.  nothing came back abnormal.  after that, I was convinced that I was better and jumped back into my old routine.  I easily bulked back up to 245lbs last Sept.-Dec.  and kept up with blood work and as I noticed the abnormally tough time I was having keeping the weight on and increased fatigue and STILL elevated cpk tests, decided to give it a rest, once again.  I cannot escape being overtrained.  Even after seriously modifying my programs.  I feel my muscles are permanently damaged.



Only 1 muscle biopsy?  Thats really a shame.  If you were a veterinary patient (say a performance horse patient of my wife) youd have at least 3 and maybe as many as 5 from different muscle groups (pecs, quads, hamstrings, biceps or triceps, and lats).  I fail to see how a definitive determination can be made from an isolated single muscle biopsy. Yes, doing that many will be painful, but I really think it'd be necessary.  With one biopsy, you may miss the affected muscles easily.  To read a biopsy, you have to get a sample of the affected tissue. 

Also, is it just CK that is elevated or was your AST or any other values also elevated?

also, just out of curiosity are you sleep apnic?   

DIVISION

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2008, 12:40:02 AM »
Kidney failure occurs secondary to muscle releasing myoglobin into the blood stream as its damaged. Myoglobin will severely damage the kidney, leading to further circulation problems and eventually kidney failure.  If the renal tubules are damaged, you may see evidence of blood in the urine.  The myoglobin is excreted by the kidney, and depending on the way the urinalysis is done, may be mistaken for hemoglobin in the urine, a marker for blood in the urine.   Because of differences in the source of CK, a mildly elevated CK doesn't necessarily mean there will be renal problems, however a substantially elevated CK requires diuresis (fluid therapy) because muscle tissue is the only one present in the blood with enough mass to generate capture myopathy level CK elevations. 

To me the people who are most likely at risk for an elevated CK post exercise are people like myself---Heavyweight to SHW powerlifters or other strenght athletes in intense training where maximal weights are being lifted creating a signficant short term oxygen debt (and we all know the lung conditioning of SHW powerlifters) or underconditioned gym goers who for some stupid reason get caught up in the exercise mode and do set, after set, after set without realizing they are overexerting their bodies or competitive bodybuilders who are dehydrated secondary to drugs or dieting working for a long period of time during an intense workout---say precontest.  Performance Drugs may have an effect, not because they cause myositis, but because they can signficantly effect cardiovascular output starting off the cascade. 


Beyond the dark urine, what would you tell those who are looking for symptoms of kidney damage brought on by overtraining induced myopathy?

For your typical gym lifter who doesn't know what to look for, what would you tell him?



DIV
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ChinoXL

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2008, 08:28:22 AM »

Only 1 muscle biopsy?  Thats really a shame.  If you were a veterinary patient (say a performance horse patient of my wife) youd have at least 3 and maybe as many as 5 from different muscle groups (pecs, quads, hamstrings, biceps or triceps, and lats).  I fail to see how a definitive determination can be made from an isolated single muscle biopsy. Yes, doing that many will be painful, but I really think it'd be necessary.  With one biopsy, you may miss the affected muscles easily.  To read a biopsy, you have to get a sample of the affected tissue. 

Also, is it just CK that is elevated or was your AST or any other values also elevated?

also, just out of curiosity are you sleep apnic?   

the doctor only took tissue from my right quad and that was it.  I have had other elevated enzymes and I believe that AST MIGHT have been one of them.  I will go through my records at home once I get off work and let you know.  I know for a fact creatinine, BUN and two liver enzymes have come back elevated before.  and i do not have sleep apnea, THAT I KNOW OF.  I used to have these little spells of waking up in a severe panic when I first started having these problems and for about a year afterwards on and off. 

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2008, 09:23:47 AM »

Sort of.  I'm saying that CK levels will be elevated post intense exercise.  The degree of elevation is dependant on alot of factors.  Capture myopathy is a disease process seen in animals secondary to extreme exertion while being captured (in a trap, net, by hand, or by being chased).  Basically what happens in the animal is that muscular exertion leads to formation of lactic acid, which during extreme exercise will build up within the blood, causing a drop in blood pH.  This will negatively affect heart output by affecting potassium within the blood, further making things worse because the heart won't/cant pump blood to the muscle as its needed to provide the necessary oxygen.  As the muscle is damaged, the CK enzyme is released into the blood stream. 

This is the same thing you see with athletes who exhert themselves in an extreme manner.   It is important to determine the isoenzyme of CK that is in the blood if its present at an extreme level.  CK-MM is present highest in muscle (so elevated levels indicate skeletal muscle damage), CK MB is present in the heart (So elevated levels indicate heart muscle damage) and CK BB is in the brain.   

Kidney failure occurs secondary to muscle releasing myoglobin into the blood stream as its damaged. Myoglobin will severely damage the kidney, leading to further circulation problems and eventually kidney failure.  If the renal tubules are damaged, you may see evidence of blood in the urine.  The myoglobin is excreted by the kidney, and depending on the way the urinalysis is done, may be mistaken for hemoglobin in the urine, a marker for blood in the urine.   Because of differences in the source of CK, a mildly elevated CK doesn't necessarily mean there will be renal problems, however a substantially elevated CK requires diuresis (fluid therapy) because muscle tissue is the only one present in the blood with enough mass to generate capture myopathy level CK elevations. 

To me the people who are most likely at risk for an elevated CK post exercise are people like myself---Heavyweight to SHW powerlifters or other strenght athletes in intense training where maximal weights are being lifted creating a signficant short term oxygen debt (and we all know the lung conditioning of SHW powerlifters) or underconditioned gym goers who for some stupid reason get caught up in the exercise mode and do set, after set, after set without realizing they are overexerting their bodies or competitive bodybuilders who are dehydrated secondary to drugs or dieting working for a long period of time during an intense workout---say precontest.  Performance Drugs may have an effect, not because they cause myositis, but because they can signficantly effect cardiovascular output starting off the cascade. 
   
i did not read this whole post, just saw this one quote... yeah ck may rise after exercise to 200, maybe 250, but NOT 3000!!!!
you are gay.

Triton

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2008, 01:46:44 PM »
Have had week off training, drinking heaps of fluids
tough to sit back and do nothing, have second appointment with Doc today for another blood test, keep you guys posted.
 Thanks for all advice
Cheers

Triton

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2008, 01:48:24 PM »
I think gear from Lebanon, 1ml Viles

Vet

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Re: creatine kinase
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2008, 06:02:51 PM »

Beyond the dark urine, what would you tell those who are looking for symptoms of kidney damage brought on by overtraining induced myopathy?

For your typical gym lifter who doesn't know what to look for, what would you tell him?



DIV

Thats a good question.   In animals with capture myopathy you will see signs of severe muscle pain, inappetance (thought to be nausea induced), lethargy, and decreased movement.  They are also generally running a mild fever. 


I think humans with those clinical signs are probably having a problem.