Author Topic: More on the Georgia  (Read 2009 times)

headhuntersix

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More on the Georgia
« on: August 09, 2008, 04:28:35 PM »
AS I write, Russian tanks grind into a brave and isolated democratic state.

Assuming that the world's attention would focus on Beijing, Moscow stage-managed an elaborate act of aggression against Georgia.

But the world has changed since Soviet tanks rolled unchallenged into Afghanistan at Christmastime 29 years ago. Global communications now spotlight aggression instantly.

Yesterday, the world didn't watch the Olympic opening ceremonies (the Chinese must be furious at the Russians). Instead, we saw images of Soviet - sorry, I meant Russian - aircraft pounding Georgian territory as Russian armor rolled over the Caucasus Mountains.

The Kremlin is determined to break Georgia's will - and keep the feisty republic out of NATO.

Russia, you see, still believes it's entitled to all of its former empire. And, tragically, "Old Europe" is back: Yesterday, Germany and other nervous European states bought the Russian line that Georgia is the aggressor. Wouldn't want to anger Moscow . . .

The background: When a fellow officer and I drove through the region in 1991, Georgian patriots and Russian "peacekeepers" were already facing off. As the USSR collapsed, its security services leapt to foment separatist (pro-Moscow) movements in the newly independent states. In Georgia's case, that meant instigating rebellions in South Ossetia, Abkhazia and - unsuccessfully - Adjaria (the Caucasus is a crazy quilt of obscure identities). If Georgians insisted on independence, the Kremlin intended to dissect the country.

But then Russia found itself bogged down in a series of botched wars in Chechnya as its military rotted and the Yeltsin government floundered.

Now, however, the petrodollar-powered Russia of Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and his straight man, President Dmitri Medvedev, is swaggering - and determined to punish Georgia, to make it an example to other defiant neighbors.

What just happened? The Kremlin decided it was time to act, since Georgia was only growing stronger under its democratically elected government. Although NATO has been hemming and hawing about admitting Georgia, the Russians didn't want to take any chances. (Just last month, 1,000 US troops were in Georgia for an exercise.)

Calculating that the media and world leaders would be partying in Beijing, the Russians ordered North Ossetian militiamen, backed by Russian "peacekeepers" and mercenaries, to provoke the Georgians earlier this month.

Weary of the Russian presence on their soil, the Georgians took the bait. President Mikheil Saakashvili ordered his US-trained military to respond.

That was the excuse the Kremlin wanted. Immediately, a tank brigade from Russia's 58th Army (the butchers of Chechnya) crossed the international border into Poland - sorry, I meant Georgia
L

headhuntersix

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2008, 04:31:36 PM »
How do I know that the Russians set a trap? Simple: Given the wretched state of Russian military readiness, that brigade could never have shot out of its motor pool on short notice. The Russians obviously "task-organized" the force in advance to make sure it would have working tanks with competent crews.

Otherwise, broken-down vehicles would've lined those mountain roads.

The Russians planned it. And they hope to push it to the limit.

What happens next? This is a fight between a very small David and a very large Goliath. That said, the Russians may be surprised at how fiercely the Georgians defend their homeland. At least two, and possibly four, Russian jets have been shot down while attacking Georgian bases close to the capital city, Tbilisi.

As of last night, the Georgians had retaken Tskhinvali, South Ossetia's capital. I'd bet American veterans helped Georgia with contingency planning for just such a situation (it worked in Bosnia).

Meanwhile, hundreds of civilians and dozens of militiamen, Kremlin-funded mercenaries and Russian "peacekeepers" have been killed, along with tens of Georgian troops. This fighting is serious. And, unless Moscow pulls out all the stops, its forces just might take a surprise beating.

The Russian view: If I were a Russian staff planner (and sober), I wouldn't expect to drive all the way to the Georgian capital - that would be too much for the West to stomach (although Russia's greatest strength today is that it doesn't care about world opinion).

My objective would be to retake Tskhinvali, then strike due south to cut Georgia's lifelines to the world - the strategic highway, parallel rail line and international pipeline that connect Georgia's eastern interior with its western ports.

(Incidentally, such an offensive would take the Kremlin's tanks to the aptly named city of Gori, birthplace of Josef Stalin.)

If the Russian invaders can sever those links, they'll cut Georgia in half. Control of that road-rail-pipeline complex would not only bring the Georgian economy to a standstill - it would also allow the Kremlin's other clients in Abkhazia, on the Black Sea, to renew their attempt to devour Georgian territory.

Russian generals have always been good planners. The problems crop up in the execution.

And the Russians have several vulnerabilities:

* They have only a single route over the rugged Caucasus range. If Georgian commandos interdict it, the Russians will feel the supply pinch quickly. And any major Russian military operations need to be wrapped up before autumn snows close the passes - if there isn't a cease-fire sooner.

* The Russians also need a local airfield to sustain their efforts - that could lure them closer to Georgia's capital.

* Finally, the Russian army still relies on brute force - sophisticated combat operations are not its specialty.

We don't know how this will develop. A Russian humiliation? A Kremlin success as the world wrings its hands but looks away? A destructive, bloody standoff?

The only thing that's 100 percent clear is which side we should be on.

L

headhuntersix

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2008, 04:36:51 PM »
For months, Moscow's successive provocations in Georgia have left observers suspecting that it was provoking a war in the Caucasus. It seems to have finally gotten what it wanted. The Kremlin's blatant aggression puts at stake not only the future of the most progressive state in the former Soviet Union, but the broader cause of European security.

In recent years, the Kremlin had escalated its interference in Georgia's territories of Abkhazia and South Ossetia - bombing Georgian territory twice last year, illegally extending Russian citizenship to residents there, and appointing Russian security officers to their self-declared governments. South Ossetia's government in particular is practically under Moscow's direct control, with little if any ability to act independently.

But this flare-up is a direct consequence of Russia's deliberate and recent efforts to engage its small neighbor in military conflict. In April, Russia's President Vladimir Putin signed a decree effectively beginning to treat Abkhazia and South Ossetia as parts of the Russian Federation. This land grab was a particularly galling move because Russia is in charge of both the peacekeeping operations in the conflict zones, and the negotiations over their political resolution. The mediator had now clearly become a direct party to the conflict.

Moscow then sent paratroopers, heavy weapons and other troops into Abkhazia. Although these measures constituted military occupation of Georgian territory, Georgia failed to respond militarily. Instead, with European aspirations in mind, Georgian leaders listened to western calls for restraint, and put their faith in half-hearted western diplomatic initiatives.

Having failed to provoke Georgia to a war in Abkhazia, the Kremlin then tried in South Ossetia. Its proxies, the Ossetian separatist forces, escalated their attacks on Georgian posts and villages, making a response inevitable. Predictably, Moscow claimed a right to intervene, pouring Russian tanks into the area and bombing Georgian territory - including the country's capital. But why would Russia seek a war in the Caucasus, and why does it matter?

Georgia's position astride the western access route to the Caspian sea's energy reserves and Central Asia give it geopolitical significance. Moreover, Georgia represents exactly what Moscow does not want to see on its borders: a country both independent and increasingly democratic. Moscow instead seeks submission, preferably by authoritarian rulers that it can manipulate.

Yet the decisive factor was Georgia's efforts to gain Nato membership, a move in tune with the country's progress in consolidating democratic rule. Angela Merkel's statement that a country with unresolved conflicts can't enter Nato helped, too: it sent Russia a signal that it could prevent Georgia's Nato membership simply by stirring conflict.

Moscow's military adventure has far-reaching implications. To leaders in Ukraine and the Baltic states, it sends signals that it seeks to re-establish control in the former Soviet space. Probably correctly, leaders there assume they are next in line. More deeply, Russia's land grab threatens to return parts of Europe to the politics of territorial control of previous generations, negating the promise of integration and cooperation that the EU represents.

Russia's behaviour is incompatible with its aspirations to be a respected world power. Indeed, thoughtful people will find parallels between this and earlier incidents of Russian land seizures when it thought people were looking elsewhere. – the Baltic crisis of 1939, Finland, and post-second world war Iran come to mind. With most western leaders at the Olympics or on holiday, Moscow's efforts to establish a fait accompli in the Caucasus cannot be allowed to stand.

So far, the West's reaction has been inadequate. Rather than standing up for their own principles, western leaders think they can improve Russia's behaviour by appeasement, fearful of threatening relations with an undeniably powerful Russia. But by doing so, western leaders have unwittingly encouraged the most irresponsible elements in Moscow, whetting the hardliners' imperial appetites by not attaching any costs to their excesses. That in turn inexorably leads to a worsening of Russia's relations with the West.

Paradoxically, standing up to Moscow is not only the right thing to do in this crisis, but the best way to improve relations with Russia in the long term. For only a Russia that abandons its imperial agenda and respects its neighbors, irrespective of size, can be a true partner for the west.

It is now important for western leaders to realise that their silence so far has only encouraged Moscow's aggressive behaviour, and that they must now stand in solidarity with Georgia – in deeds, not only in words. Whether they do so will determine the future not only of the Caucasus, but also for Europe's security
L

headhuntersix

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2008, 04:39:16 PM »
The Georgian Army has fought well in Iraq and has done a good job of digesting what we've taught them over almost 20 years of training and help. Their troops will fight well and make Moscow look stupid. It remains to be seen how much force Russia uses as they are much larger,even if not as capable.
L

headhuntersix

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2008, 04:43:27 PM »
When is a victory not a victory? When it dents your country's image, scares your allies and gets you into an unwinnable war with a hugely stronger opponent.

That is the bleak outlook for Georgia this weekend, after what initially looked like a quick military win against the separatist regime in South Ossetia. Georgia's attack followed weeks of escalating provocations, including hours of heavy shelling by the Russian-backed breakaway province and signs of large-scale Russian reinforcement.

Thanks to American military aid, Georgia's 18,000-strong armed forces are the best-trained and equipped fighting force in the Caucasus. But it is one thing for them to defeat the raggle-taggle militia of a tinpot place like South Ossetia (population 70,000). It is another for a country of less than five million people to take on Russia (population 142 million). Now the Kremlin is reacting strongly. Russian warplanes are reportedly striking targets in Georgia. Reinforcements are pouring in. And the Kremlin's mighty propaganda machine is lumbering into action while a cyber-attack appears to have crippled Georgia's websites.

For it is the information war, not what happens on the ground, that will determine the victor of this conflict. Russia is portraying Georgia as the aggressor, an intransigent and unpredictable country determined to restore its supremacy over an unwilling province by means of military force and “ethnic cleansing”. Such a country, clearly, would be unfit to receive Western support.

Background
Russia and Georgia on brink of war
Georgia pounds Russian-backed rebels
Tensions for Nato over Georgia and Ukraine
Analysis: global energy threatened by conflict
That seems to be working. European leaders have long been dubious about Mikhail Saakashvili, a charismatic US-educated lawyer who stormed to power in the Rose Revolution of 2005. Where the fans of the Georgian President see charm and brains, his critics - such as the German Chancellor Angela Merkel - see a dangerously headstrong and erratic leader. A crackdown on the Opposition in November, bullying of the media and instances of abuse of power among senior officials have allowed detractors to draw uncomfortable parallels between Georgia and Vladimir Putin's Russia.

These are misplaced: Georgia is not perfect, but it is not a dictatorship. Its leadership does not peddle a phoney ideology, such as the Kremlin's mishmash of Soviet nostalgia and tsarist-era chauvinism. It has a thriving civil society, vocal opposition and ardently wants to be in the EU and Nato. Moral grounds alone would be enough reason for supporting it against Russian aggression.

But on top of that is a vital Western interest. The biggest threat Russia poses to Europe is the Kremlin's monopoly on energy export routes to the West from the former Soviet Union. The one breach in that is the oil and gas pipeline that leads from energy-rich Azerbaijan to Turkey, across Georgia. If Georgia falls, Europe's hopes of energy independence from Russia fall too.

Yet the West is both divided and distracted. America will be furious if reports turn out to be true that Russian warplanes bombed an airfield where Pentagon military advisers are based. But a lame-duck president is not going to risk World War Three for Georgia. In Europe, Georgia's allies are mostly small ex-communist states such as Lithuania; heavily outnumbered by those such as Germany that prize their relations with Russia, seemingly, above all else. It seems Russia is ready to hit back hard, in the hope of squashing the West's pestilential protégé.

In short, it looks more and more as though Georgia has fallen in to its enemies' trap. The script went like this: first mount unbearable provocations, then wait for a response, and finally reply with overwhelming military force and diplomatic humiliation. The idea that Georgia sought this war is nonsense. Recovering control of South Ossetia from its Russian-backed rulers has been a top priority for the Georgian authorities for years. But nobody thought it would come by military means. The Georgian strategy had been to use soft power, underlining its prosperity and the corruption-

busting successes of Mr Saakashvili's rule. That contrasted sharply with the isolation and cronyism of South Ossetia, which survives only on smuggling and Russian subsidies.

Now that strategy is in ruins. As things stand, Georgia will be fighting not to regain South Ossetia or even to deter aggression, but to survive. It is hard to see any good outcome. Georgia has failed to win a quick victory: crucially, it failed to block the Roki tunnel under the Caucasus mountains, normally used as a smugglers' highway, but now the route for Russian heavy weapons that Georgia cannot counter for long. Worse, the authorities in Abkhazia, Georgia's other breakaway region, may mount an attack, either on its own or with Russian help.

The fighting should be a deafening wake-up call to the West. Our fatal mistake was made at the Nato summit in Bucharest in April, when Georgia's attempt to get a clear path to membership of the alliance was rebuffed. Mr Saakashvili warned us then that Russia would take advantage of any display of Western weakness or indecision. And it has.

L

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2008, 04:49:12 PM »
Our Georgian Troops in Iraq now?  Will they leave Iraq now to defend their country?  ???
S

headhuntersix

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2008, 04:51:39 PM »
1000 are pulling out....I'm not sure where they are or what they're doing. I'm not sure how we will replace them but as soon as I have anything worthwhile I'll post it. I'm headed to Hawai for our next training X, so I should hear something, if thats a big deal.
L

MB_722

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2008, 04:51:42 PM »
Will they leave Iraq now to defend their country?  ???

yes

headhuntersix

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2008, 05:31:09 PM »
The election of the Obama would be a national security nightmare for many reasons (Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan etc.) but the thought of him as our counter to Putin is akin to Urkel fighting Fedor Emelianenko......from BLACKFIVE.COM ;D
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youandme

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2008, 05:47:54 PM »
Hopefully we can lend a hand to Georigia, and ship Obama to them to lure the Russians into a trap with carrotts, if that fails, he can always "sit down and tlak it over" boring them to death with his preacher like sermons, and flip flops.

headhuntersix

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2008, 05:55:51 PM »
This just proves AGAIN that talk without being able to back it, means absolute SHIT. The Euro's fucked Georgia.
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El_Pajero

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2008, 06:34:19 PM »
maybe its time to release the waffen ss?

headhuntersix

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2008, 06:37:28 PM »
The Germans don't fight anymore....
L

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2008, 01:39:41 AM »
The Germans don't fight anymore....

Crazy bunch of bastards. haha



 ;D
S

calmus

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2008, 02:31:41 AM »
GO BULLDOGS!!!!!!!!!

Slapper

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2008, 08:20:36 AM »
It'd be interesting to hear what Abkhasians or North Ossetians have to say about all of this. Their voice has been suspiciouly absent from the media.

youandme

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2008, 09:00:09 AM »
It'd be interesting to hear what Abkhasians or North Ossetians have to say about all of this. Their voice has been suspiciouly absent from the media.

uhh yeah cause they are dying  ::)

suspiciously absent  ::) perhaps you can fly over, and hear their screams of death

Slapper

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2008, 09:16:38 AM »
uhh yeah cause they are dying  ::)

suspiciously absent  ::) perhaps you can fly over, and hear their screams of death

Well, don't you think that if the Georgians are given prime time coverage, wouldn't it be fair to do the same with the Abkhasians and the South Ossetians?

You know, for fairness sake.

By the by, how are Abkhasians dying if they are seeking total, not partial, independence from Tbilisi? I'd argue that they are not opposed to the Russian aggression against Georgia, since they've closed their borders with Georgia some time ago.

youandme

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2008, 09:18:14 AM »
Obama, "They should talk this out"

"The Georgians have offered a cease-fire. The response by the Russians has been to step up the attacks, continue bombing civilians with strategic air assets and then to reject the notion of any international mediation at all — it's very difficult for us to understand that," the official said. "It is simply not acceptable that anyone would reject an offer of a cease-fire and a plea for international mediation."

My question for Obama  is, when do the carrots come into play?

240 is Back

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2008, 09:19:58 AM »
Obama, "They should talk this out"

"The Georgians have offered a cease-fire. The response by the Russians has been to step up the attacks, continue bombing civilians with strategic air assets and then to reject the notion of any international mediation at all — it's very difficult for us to understand that," the official said. "It is simply not acceptable that anyone would reject an offer of a cease-fire and a plea for international mediation."

My question for Obama  is, when do the carrots come into play?

Instead of criticizing Obama, present your diplomatic plan which would solve this.  We're all ears :)

Slapper

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2008, 09:38:44 AM »
Instead of criticizing Obama, present your diplomatic plan which would solve this.  We're all ears :)

These two should do the trick:


a_joker10

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2008, 10:50:25 AM »
Instead of criticizing Obama, present your diplomatic plan which would solve this.  We're all ears :)

Obama is running for president of the US it is every Americans right to question his strategy. Especially since he isn't the president yet.

The bigger question though is what would McCain do.

240 if you want a an appeaser running your country then so be it, but think of Carter and of Chamberlain and the outcomes they brought.
Z

OzmO

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2008, 10:52:35 AM »
These two should do the trick:



you forgot Chuck Norris

Slapper

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2008, 11:01:51 AM »
you forgot Chuck Norris

Well, that was state secret... But since you've uncovered it, here's the entire platoon:



Shiiiiiiit, it 'bout to go down now damn commies!

2ND COMING

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Re: More on the Georgia
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2008, 11:09:16 AM »
very good read. I'm somehow fascinated by these types of  conflicts.