How come the US sucks so bad in olympic weightlifting?

[Michaeloz]

As an Olympic weightlifter, I can give you the answer to this.

1 - the countries that do well in general have a larger pool of atheletes who train full time. In the US, weightlifting is not, in general is not treated as a "serious sport", a much smaller number of people compete.

2 - the countries that do well in general have better training methods. The typical US weightlifter, either trains once a day (often after a full day at work), and some national level competitors only train 3-4 times a week. The countries that do well in general have in general 1-2 training sessions per day, 5-6 time a week, and some even have 4-5 training sessions a day. Yes really -I know this for a fact - for the countries such as Bulgaria (unfortunately their whole team did not compete this year) each training session is very intense, and might last 20-45 mins. Eg morning session 9am 20 mins shrugs/high pulls. 12pm 30 mins half squat snatches, 3pm 30 mins jerks, 6pm, 45 mins heavy deep squat session.

3 - the countries that do well have really great coaches. They outdo the US in training technique, stretching/flexibility training, lift training, but also in using training related exercises, such as jumps, as well as recovery therapies such as massage/sauna etc.

4. the countries that do well in general have people who can really just eat, sleep, train, and recover. 100% focused on creating a body that will achieve record lifts.

5. the countries that do well in general actually select people who are suitable to be future stars at an early age. Body shape, bone density, speed, flexibility, explosiveness, strength etc, whereas for the US, there is much less of a national selection process.

6. the countries that do well in general have way more female competitors. In the US, its really still pretty rare for a women to be a weightlifter.

OK, and now finally a point on performance enhancement. Unfortunately (depending what view you take on this) the US is now pretty strict on drug testing, which makes it pretty hard for competitors to use substances in a way that gives them a significant benefit without getting caught.

Compare this to countries such as China, Greece, Iran, Poland, Russia, Bulgaria, India, etc, where athletes can take (or are given) what they need. They key substances for a weightlifter are, depending upon age, sex, and stage of development, testosterone, winstrol, and increasingly GH. (Other popular substances, are dbol and also deca, among others).

In the countries that do well in general, an athelete can, leading up to a major contest do a strength phase for half year test/gh, and then spend the next 3 months moving into a competition phases test/gh/win, and then the last 3 months in contest build up take gh, and come in "clean". This is pretty much how its done right now. The athletes can stay hidden away from testing by avoiding international contests, and meanwhile these countries send up an coming younger competitors to international contest who are clean, while their true stars are kept at home to aviod testing.

So, this is how its done, and why the US sux at weightlifting.

Excellent post.

[Method101]

I can tell you that there are some big body builders where I train, who are amazed pretty much on a daily basis with what we lift. Eg you might get a bodybuilder doing partial squat reps on 120-140kg, thinking this is heavy, whereas us lifters are doing deep squats of 180kg upwards for reps (some guys going over as 250kg for reps).

[gib]

Yep - I've seem that vid. Pretty impresive, and he is doing REAL squats. How many bodybuilders squat like that these days? (Actually I think that's a more impressive vid then Ronnie all strapped up doing partial squats with a bigger weight).

Usually, my squats after warming up, are in the 3-5 rep range.

The vid reminds me of time, a bodybuilder suggested to me that we blast my legs "bodybuilding style". We started with with 180kg, full squats for as many reps as I could could do (approx 15 reps), then with a 10 sec break as he pulled off two plates making the weight 140 (another 15 reps), then down to 100, then 60kg until exhaustion. Man talk about a pump! That workout left my legs sore for days! (but sore in a good way if you know what I mean)

[closeline]

reasons:

1) Olympic lifting is not all drugs, good technique is required. US-Kids, as are ruthless to their body regarding juicing to the max, but they are in most cases not smart enough to learn the techniqe. So they  go into Powerlifting, Strongman or if not junkfood addicts into Bodybuilding

2) Weightlifting requires a robust body, big and strong joints, short legs and arms, so US can t use their Black fallas as in athletics. White americans for the most part are considered nothing but fat and lazy. How many whites represent US in basketball, athletics ?

3) Expensive EPO, stupid endless training and total dedication to the most boring sports dosen t help in lifting. (Ask Phelps the swimmer)

[Red Hook]

Because Nike doesn't give out endorsement deals and because it is not on NBC every weekend in prime time.

All of that translates into the best athletes playing basketball/baseball/football.

Another example of this is boxing, during the 50,60,70 and the early 80s boxing was the dominant sport in the states. So all of the better athletes gravitated towards it thus producing a better product. Today boxing is not what it use to be partly because that 6'3" 245lb geneticly superior person is now playing middle line backer for some NFL team.

[Red Hook]

think about it, Ronnie coleman came to BB after football same for Branch et al. Think of how many of potential weightlifting world champions that are in the college and NFL that won't even think about the sport.  Usually the best athletes follow the money and endorsements..and rightfully so.

[MONSTER_TRICEPS]

I compete in 94kg category.

Best snatch is 162.5 kg
Best clean and jerk is 195kg.

Sick.

[Cardfan]

Plain and simple...no glory. Love the sport, but it's got the appeal of badminton.

[gib]

Monster Triceps - what is even sicker is that there are numerous guys in my category who can do more than me! Especially in the C&J there are guys I know for sure doing 230kg+, and of course then there all those gym rumors we hear from the wieghtlifting gossip chain, about guys in Bulgaria doing 240kg+, or whatever training, that are unverified, but quite possibly true (although this may actually be done by guys in the 94kg category, who are infact weighing 98-100kg off season in training, and who are clearly juiced up and not tested at the time.

Lets see what the winning lifts are in this year's Olympics. I predict Snatch 190, C&J 240.

I honestly have the training willpower, but at a really high level having the ideal physical structure makes a big difference that seperates the true champs for the almost champs. I have a long back, which seems to give me great leverage for pulling up the bar (so my snatch is strong, as are my cleans). But for a range of reasons, my jerk is simply my biggest weakpoint. Its very very frustrating being able to pretty easily clean a really impressive weight only to know I cannot jerk it.

[MONSTER_TRICEPS]

Monster Triceps - what is even sicker is that there are numerous guys in my category who can do more than me! Especially in the C&J there are guys I know for sure doing 230kg+, and of course then there all those gym rumors we hear from the wieghtlifting gossip chain, about guys in Bulgaria doing 240kg+, or whatever training, that are unverified, but quite possibly true (although this may actually be done by guys in the 94kg category, who are infact weighing 98-100kg off season in training, and who are clearly juiced up and not tested at the time.

Lets see what the winning lifts are in this year's Olympics. I predict Snatch 190, C&J 240.

I honestly have the training willpower, but at a really high level having the ideal physical structure makes a big difference that seperates the true champs for the almost champs. I have a long back, which seems to give me great leverage for pulling up the bar (so my snatch is strong, as are my cleans). But for a range of reasons, my jerk is simply my biggest weakpoint. Its very very frustrating being able to pretty easily clean a really impressive weight only to know I cannot jerk it.

Cool man, I do snatches and c&j's too as assistance for my shot putting, but I'm not nearly as strong as you, goddamn man.

190-240 in the SHW class?

I think it will be more like 205-255. Too bad reza isn't competing.

[BIG ACH]

Gib, this was a really insightful posts man.  Very interesting information, thanks for sharing.

You should post up some videos if you can from your lifts, would love to see them!

[Bluto]

Good posts.

[gib]

I have hundreds of vids of my lifts. Just like other athletes, we go over them in slow motion, analyzing techniques. Its really helpful to do, and you can then spot errors that need improving. Eg, not pulling up evenly, jumping back too much etc. I am not too post any of me up for all to see though.

Monster Triceps - yes, I agree, for the SHW class, yes, the lifts will be higher, and around the figures you have suggested. Thank God I don't compete with those guys! (although the actual lifting standard is actually much higher in the lower weight classes).

I would have loved to see Reza compete. God only knows the true reason why he is not there. One can only suspect of course, but the "official reason" is that he is suffering from some injuries and not at his peak form. Now this guy in training, front squats 300+kg with ease.  Increadibly strong and for a guy of his size, also has good flexibilty.

What sort of weights are you doing? For the shotputters and hammer throwers in our gym, some of the really top ranked guys I have seen doing cleans in the 140-160kg range, shrugs/deadlifts (over 200kg) and squats in the 180kg+ range. With the cleans especially, they put a huge emphasis on speed and expolosiveness, and they typically do not do deep squats when they clean (rather they do what we call a "power-clean" which involves only a partial squat). We train pretty well together with them, although they of couse spend less time in the gym than we do, although ocassionally we have a bit of a fight over the equipment and platforms, which at peak times the weightlifters consider belongs to us!.

[Fury]

The athletes capable of dominating the weightlifting events for the US are too busy making millions of dollars playing professional sports.

[SweetMuscles]

Because we are a nation of pussies and cosseted f.aggots who have become spoilt and lazy.
we can only win stuff if the odds are heavily in our favor and even then we often fuck it up. we are weak fuckers and our strength is only in our numbers. numbers largely swelled by inferior beings.

[MONSTER_TRICEPS]

I have hundreds of vids of my lifts. Just like other athletes, we go over them in slow motion, analyzing techniques. Its really helpful to do, and you can then spot errors that need improving. Eg, not pulling up evenly, jumping back too much etc. I am not too post any of me up for all to see though.

Monster Triceps - yes, I agree, for the SHW class, yes, the lifts will be higher, and around the figures you have suggested. Thank God I don't compete with those guys! (although the actual lifting standard is actually much higher in the lower weight classes).

I would have loved to see Reza compete. God only knows the true reason why he is not there. One can only suspect of course, but the "official reason" is that he is suffering from some injuries and not at his peak form. Now this guy in training, front squats 300+kg with ease.  Increadibly strong and for a guy of his size, also has good flexibilty.

What sort of weights are you doing? For the shotputters and hammer throwers in our gym, some of the really top ranked guys I have seen doing cleans in the 140-160kg range, shrugs/deadlifts (over 200kg) and squats in the 180kg+ range. With the cleans especially, they put a huge emphasis on speed and expolosiveness, and they typically do not do deep squats when they clean (rather they do what we call a "power-clean" which involves only a partial squat). We train pretty well together with them, although they of couse spend less time in the gym than we do, although ocassionally we have a bit of a fight over the equipment and platforms, which at peak times the weightlifters consider belongs to us!.

I do 110-120kg powercleans(I also do squatcleans sometimes), 190kg full backsquat, 220-230 deadlift, but i've heard of shotputters cleaning 200, benching 250, squatting 300 etc.

Always room for improvement.  

[gib]

Those are all decent lifts, in the range of what I see the top shot put and hammer guys doing.

So, hows your shotput. What's your best throw?

[MAXX]

cool to have an olympic weightlifter on the board.

would be cool to see some of your lifts on video gib. got some youtube vids?

[MONSTER_TRICEPS]

Those are all decent lifts, in the range of what I see the top shot put and hammer guys doing.

So, hows your shotput. What's your best throw?

Too embarassed to say, I've seen guys who barely bench 200 pounds who own me at shot putting.
My technique sucks really bad.

But I hope to get 15+ meters in the future, I'm 19 now so I still have a lot of time left to improve.

[Moosejay]

Never said I'd win any olympic contests. Just seems strange the #1 nation in everything would not be good in picking up heavy things.

No.

We have the less intelligent countries lift the heavy stuff. We are too genteel to otherwise sully our palms

[Moosejay]

Too embarassed to say, I've seen guys who barely bench 200 pounds who own me at shot putting.
My technique sucks really bad.

But I hope to get 15+ meters in the future, I'm 19 now so I still have a lot of time left to improve.

I had my hs record of 46 feet as a senior...I wasn't the strongest, it was more technique, for me, anyhow

[BM OUT]

As an Olympic weightlifter, I can give you the answer to this.

1 - the countries that do well in general have a larger pool of athletes who train full time. In the US, weightlifting is not, in general is not treated as a "serious sport", a much smaller number of people compete.

2 - the countries that do well in general have better training methods. The typical US weightlifter, either trains once a day (often after a full day at work), and some national level competitors only train 3-4 times a week. The countries that do well in general have in general 1-2 training sessions per day, 5-6 time a week, and some even have 4-5 training sessions a day. Yes really -I know this for a fact - for the countries such as Bulgaria (unfortunately their whole team did not compete this year) each training session is very intense, and might last 20-45 mins. Eg morning session 9am 20 mins shrugs/high pulls. 12pm 30 mins half squat snatches, 3pm 30 mins jerks, 6pm, 45 mins heavy deep squat session.

3 - the countries that do well have really great coaches. They outdo the US in training technique, stretching/flexibility training, lift training, but also in using training related exercises, such as jumps, as well as recovery therapies such as massage/sauna etc.

4. the countries that do well in general have people who can really just eat, sleep, train, and recover. 100% focused on creating a body that will achieve record lifts.

5. the countries that do well in general actually select people who are suitable to be future stars at an early age. Body shape, bone density, speed, flexibility, explosiveness, strength etc, whereas for the US, there is much less of a national selection process.

6. the countries that do well in general have way more female competitors. In the US, its really still pretty rare for a women to be a weightlifter.

OK, and now finally a point on performance enhancement. Unfortunately (depending what view you take on this) the US is now pretty strict on drug testing, which makes it pretty hard for competitors to use substances in a way that gives them a significant benefit without getting caught.

Compare this to countries such as China, Greece, Iran, Poland, Russia, Bulgaria, India, etc, where athletes can take (or are given) what they need. They key substances for a weightlifter are, depending upon age, sex, and stage of development, testosterone, winstrol, and increasingly GH. (Other popular substances, are dbol and also deca, among others).

In the countries that do well in general, an athelete can, leading up to a major contest do a strength phase for half year test/gh, and then spend the next 3 months moving into a competition phases test/gh/win, and then the last 3 months in contest build up take gh, and come in "clean". This is pretty much how its done right now. The athletes can stay hidden away from testing by avoiding international contests, and meanwhile these countries send up an coming younger competitors to international contest who are clean, while their true stars are kept at home to aviod testing.

So, this is how its done, and why the US sux at weightlifting.

Do you also think that the learning curve is really hard in Olympic lifting.It takes tons of skill to perform the lifts and they are very difficult to learn.Plus ,so many Americans are benching from day one that they loose the flexibility in their shoulders to then learn Olympic lifting becomes impossible.I also agree that our strongest,best athletes go into football and then start lifting for football.In other countries,if your strong,you lift.Here,if your strong or large,you play football.

[m8]

That's why:

[gib]

"Do you also think that the learning curve is really hard in Olympic lifting.It takes tons of skill to perform the lifts and they are very difficult to learn.Plus ,so many Americans are benching from day one that they loose the flexibility in their shoulders to then learn Olympic lifting becomes impossible.I also agree that our strongest,best athletes go into football and then start lifting for football.In other countries,if your strong,you lift.Here,if your strong or large,you play football."

I think ideally for a lifter, you should start before 12. I started at 13. The top countries start their people at 5 or 6. That does not mean that at 5 or 6 they are doing actual lifts. Rather, they spend 2-3 years doing a combination of jumping, stretching, gymnastics, and things like throwing medicine balls, and doing things like burpies (kind of a squat, pressup, jump exercise), and doing lifts with a wooden stick, with a total focus on speed, flexibility technique. So, at age 9 you then have kids with awesome flexibility, great technique, good exposiveness. And then you gradually start introducing weight on the bar (still very light) perhaps total 10kg for the lifts, and a little more for squats and pulls. Bones are still growing and developing at this age. The, during the ages of 10-13 you very gradually start increasing the weight, still with the major focus on speed and technique. Then, at ages 13-18 the weight really starts increasing, in a controlled way, making very sure to avoid injury. And then at 18 onwards, depending on maturity and growth the weight starts increasing quite rapidly (and at the right time, performace enhancing substances are added). And then 18-28 is when the really big gains start coming, and the real muscle development takes place.

Now, compare that to your average American kid. Perhaps at age 14-15, he walks into a gym, and starts doing a few bicep curls, and some benches. He is usally a bit overweight, has poor flexibility, and its simply too late to develop the kind of base that the kids have who started at 5.

You get the picture, right? This is really how is starts in the Eastern European countries, and in China. The US does this with gymnastics, and swimming, and they get good results, but they are way way way behind in weightlifting.

[Stavios]

awesome posts GIB !

I did some weightlifting in high school but I sucked big time because I have absolutely no athlete skills and I suck as sports 
I lifted some good weights while training but my technique sucked ass so fucking hard I wasn't even bending my knees for the clean and jerk or the snatch 

That sport is not for me cause I suck at it but I enjoy watching weightlifting meet, one of my friends is doing pretty good in those competitions.

his name is Marc-Olivier Provost from Canada, he competes in the heavier classes (I think he weight 280 lbs now cause he lost some fat, he was 320 in high school. fat but strong as a fucking bull)