Author Topic: Ex-Marine decries prosecution in civilian court  (Read 1123 times)

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63777
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Ex-Marine decries prosecution in civilian court
« on: August 17, 2008, 02:45:42 PM »
I don't like this.  They need to change the law.  He should be prosecuted in a military court, with a military judge and jury. 

Ex-Marine decries prosecution in civilian court

By CHELSEA J. CARTER
AP Military Affairs Writer

IRVINE, Calif. (AP) -- A former Marine sergeant facing the first federal civilian prosecution of a military member accused of a war crime says there is much more at stake than his claim of innocence on charges that he killed unarmed detainees in Fallujah, Iraq.

In the view of Jose Luis Nazario Jr., U.S. troops may begin to question whether they will be prosecuted by civilians for doing what their military superiors taught them to do in battle.

Nazario is the first military service member who has completed his duty to be brought to trial under a law that allows the government to prosecute defense contractors, military dependents and those no longer in the military who commit crimes outside the United States.

"They train us, and they expect us to rely back on that training. Then when we use that training, they prosecute us for it?" Nazario said during an interview Saturday with The Associated Press.

"I didn't do anything wrong. I don't think I should be the first tried like this," said Nazario, whose trial begins Tuesday in Riverside, east of Los Angeles.

If Nazario, 28, is convicted of voluntary manslaughter, some predict damaging consequences on the battlefield.

"This boils down to one thing in my mind: Are we going to allow civilian juries to Monday-morning-quarterback military decisions?" said Nazario's attorney, Kevin McDermott.

Others say the law closes a loophole that allowed former military service members to slip beyond the reach of prosecution. Once they complete their terms, troops cannot be prosecuted in military court.

Scott Silliman, a law professor and executive director of the Center on Law, Ethics and National Security at Duke University, says it has little to do with questioning military decisions and everything to do with whether a service member committed a crime.

"From a legal point of view, there is no difference in law between war and peace," he said.

The Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act law was written in 2000 and amended in 2004 primarily to prosecute civilian contractors who commit crimes while working for the U.S. overseas. One of the authors contends prosecuting former military personnel was "not the motivation."

"I don't fault the Department of Justice for using what legal authority they have if a clear criminal act has been committed. But I do think that it would be preferable for crimes committed on active duty be prosecuted by court martial rather than in civilian courts," said Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala.

"I think maybe what it says is we need to rethink the question of military personnel who are subject to prosecution."

Telephone messages for a spokesman in the U.S. attorney's office in Los Angeles seeking comment were not returned.

Nazario, of Riverside, is charged with one count of voluntary manslaughter on suspicion of killing or causing others to kill four unarmed detainees in November 2004 in Fallujah, during some of the fiercest fighting of the war. He also faces one count of assault with a deadly weapon and one count of discharging a firearm during a crime of violence.

If convicted of all charges, he could face more than 10 years in prison.

The case came to light in 2006, when Nazario's former squadmate, Sgt. Ryan Weemer, volunteered details to a U.S. Secret Service job interviewer during a lie-detector screening that included a question about the most serious crime he ever committed. Weemer was ordered this month to stand trial in military court on charges of unpremeditated murder and dereliction of duty in the killing of an unarmed detainee in Fallujah. He has pleaded not guilty.

According to a Naval Criminal Investigative Service criminal complaint, several Marines allege Nazario shot two Iraqi men who had been detained while his squad searched a house. The complaint claims four Iraqi men were killed during the action.

The complaint states the squad had been taking fire from the house. After the troops entered the building and captured the insurgents, Nazario placed a call on his radio.

"Nazario said that he was asked, 'Are they dead yet?'" the complaint states. When Nazario responded that that the captives were still alive, he was allegedly told by the Marine on the radio to "make it happen."

Nazario later received the Navy-Marine Corps Commendation Medal with a 'V' for valor for combat and leadership in Fallujah.

Though Nazario and his attorneys declined to discuss the facts of the case with the AP, the former Marine has always maintained his innocence.

After leaving the military, Nazario worked as an officer with the Riverside Police Department and was close to completing his one-year probation. He said he knew nothing of the investigation until he was arrested Aug. 7, 2007, after being called into the watch commander's office to sign a performance review.

He said he was leaning forward to sign when he was grabbed from behind by his fellow officers, told he had been charged with a war crime and was turned over to Navy investigators waiting in a nearby room. Because he had not completed probation, the police department fired him.

Since then, he said, has been unable to find work.

"You're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty," he said. "I've put in applications everywhere for everything. But nobody wants to hire you if you have been indicted."

Without income, Nazario said, he has been forced to move in with his parents in New York. He and his wife resorted to selling some of their household goods, such as electronics equipment, to a pawn shop.

His wife, once a stay-at-home mother to their 2-year-old son, has gone to work as a customer service receptionist, he said. She will be unable to attend his trial.

"She has to work. We need the money," he said, his eyes reddening as he blinked away tears.

Nazario said he has no regrets about being a Marine, only regrets about what has happened since.

"My faith in the system is shaken. There's no doubt about that," he said.

One of Nazario's defense attorneys, Doug Applegate, said he believes that ultimately the former Marine will be acquitted because of lack of evidence.

"There are no bodies, no forensic evidence, no crime scene and no identities," he said.

It is unclear what, if anything, Marines being subpoenaed to testify will say about the events in the house in Fallujah.

Another Marine, Sgt. Jermaine Nelson, 26, of New York is slated to be court-martialed in December on charges of unpremeditated murder and dereliction of duty for his role in the deaths.

Although he has not entered a plea in military court, Nelson's attorney has said his client is innocent.

Nelson and Weemer were jailed in June for contempt of court for refusing to testify against Nazario before a federal grand jury believed to be investigating the case. Both were released July 3 and returned to Camp Pendleton.

---

Chelsea J. Carter covers military affairs in Southern California. Associated Press writer Ben Evans in Washington contributed to this report.
 
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MARINES_FALLUJAH?refresh=1

youandme

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10957
Re: Ex-Marine decries prosecution in civilian court
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2008, 03:16:09 PM »
Ridiculous.

We are letting terrorist from Gitmo go free, but our boys suffer the consequences.

One of Nazario's defense attorneys, Doug Applegate, said he believes that ultimately the former Marine will be acquitted because of lack of evidence.

"There are no bodies, no forensic evidence, no crime scene and no identities," he said.


Hell if this was a terrorist at Gitmo, not only would he go free, we would probably have to pay him, for his time spent at resort club gitmo.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63777
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Ex-Marine decries prosecution in civilian court
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2008, 04:04:25 PM »
Ridiculous.

We are letting terrorist from Gitmo go free, but our boys suffer the consequences.

One of Nazario's defense attorneys, Doug Applegate, said he believes that ultimately the former Marine will be acquitted because of lack of evidence.

"There are no bodies, no forensic evidence, no crime scene and no identities," he said.


Hell if this was a terrorist at Gitmo, not only would he go free, we would probably have to pay him, for his time spent at resort club gitmo.


If he was a suspected terrorist we would turn up the AC and feed him cheeseburgers.

Hereford

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4028
Re: Ex-Marine decries prosecution in civilian court
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2008, 09:34:20 AM »
Soldiers should be held immune from prosecution for all but the worst actions when deployed.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63777
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Ex-Marine decries prosecution in civilian court
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2008, 10:49:17 AM »
Not immune, but at least handled by the military justice system.  Most civilians know nothing about rules of engagement. 

Tre

  • Expert
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16549
  • "What you don't have is a career."
Re: Ex-Marine decries prosecution in civilian court
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2008, 07:21:41 AM »

Ugh, this is so dicey.

In principle, I agree with what you're saying, Beach, but the military has never had a problem with scapegoating either. 

Yes, the U.S. military is overrun with dirtbags and although I wasn't there, my gut tells me this kid was more than likely doing what he felt he was supposed to do based on the directives he'd received from his superiors. 

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63777
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Ex-Marine decries prosecution in civilian court
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2008, 11:12:11 AM »
Updated at 7:49 a.m., Friday, August 29, 2008

Jury acquits former Marine in killing of Iraqis

By CHELSEA J. CARTER
AP Military Affairs Writer

RIVERSIDE, Calif. (AP) — Jurors wept and embraced former Marine Jose Luis Nazario Jr. after acquitting him of voluntary manslaughter in the killings of unarmed Iraqi detainees during a fierce 2004 battle.

Tears rolled down Nazario's cheeks and courtroom spectators openly sobbed and cheered Thursday. He is the first U.S. veteran tried by a civilian court for alleged actions in combat.

"It's been a long, hard year for my family," Nazario said outside the courtroom. "I need a moment to catch my breath and try to get my life back together."

Jurors took less than six hours over two days to find the former sergeant not guilty of charges that he killed or caused others to kill four detainees in Fallujah, Iraq, on Nov. 9, 2004. The detainees were shot during a battle — marked by house-to-house fighting — that was considered one of the fiercest of the Iraq war.

Nazario had been charged with voluntary manslaughter, assault with a deadly weapon and discharging a firearm during a crime of violence. He could have faced more than 10 years in prison if found guilty.

Prosecutors had urged the jury to convict Nazario, saying he violated his duty as a Marine and must be held accountable for his actions in Fallujah.

Juror Ted Grinell said the panel acquitted Nazario because no witnesses testified to actually seeing the shootings and there was "not enough evidence to point that he was guilty."

Jury forewoman Ingrid Wicken said the panel was not making a statement with its verdict, but added: "I think you don't know what goes on in combat until you are in combat."

Minutes after the verdict was read, jurors shook hands with and hugged Nazario and his sobbing mother, Sandra Montanez.

Nazario's attorney, Kevin McDermott, said he believes the verdict will curb similar federal prosecutions in the future.

"I don't think they are going to put on a case in the future with a lack of evidence," he said.

Nazario, 28, was the first former military service member brought to trial under the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act, which was written in 2000 and amended in 2004 primarily to allow prosecution of civilian contractors who commit crimes while working for the U.S. overseas.

It also allows the prosecution of military dependents and former military service members accused of committing crimes outside the United States.

His attorneys did not call any witnesses. They argued during the trial that a conviction by a civilian jury would have lasting effects on combat troops, who might fear their actions could be judged long after they left the military.

The case against Nazario rested primarily on the accounts of former comrades, including two of his squad members who have been found in contempt of court for refusing to testify in court. Other former Marines testified during the five-day trial that they did not see Nazario kill the detainees but heard the gunshots.

The squad members who refused to testify, Ryan Weemer and Jermaine Nelson, are still in the Marines. They are facing murder charges in military court in connection with the shootings.

Outside court, Nazario told The Associated Press that he had no ill will against the Marines who testified against him.

"After all this, they are still my brothers. I wish them the best," he said.

Nazario said he wants to return to his job as a Riverside police officer. He was fired by the department shortly after his arrest last year.

"I just want my life back. I want my life to be how it was before this all started," he said.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080829/BREAKING/80829012

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Ex-Marine decries prosecution in civilian court
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2008, 11:27:32 AM »
Ugh, this is so dicey.

In principle, I agree with what you're saying, Beach, but the military has never had a problem with scapegoating either. 

Yes, the U.S. military is overrun with dirtbags and although I wasn't there, my gut tells me this kid was more than likely doing what he felt he was supposed to do based on the directives he'd received from his superiors. 

The US military is NOT overrun with dirtbags and most try and do the right thing., Ur right u weren't there and really can't comment or second guess him. Neither can I. These kids are hero's. The point of this was that he was out of uniform and was still tried, by a law really directed against US contractors more so then uniformed military.
L

w8tlftr

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5111
  • I ♥ ( o Y o )
Re: Ex-Marine decries prosecution in civilian court
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2008, 11:34:26 AM »
The US military is NOT overrun with dirtbags and most try and do the right thing., Ur right u weren't there and really can't comment or second guess him. Neither can I. These kids are hero's. The point of this was that he was out of uniform and was still tried, by a law really directed against US contractors more so then uniformed military.

This should have NEVER went to a civilian court in the first place.


headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Ex-Marine decries prosecution in civilian court
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2008, 11:35:56 AM »
I agree, but based on the law etc.....they put this kid through hell.
L

w8tlftr

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5111
  • I ♥ ( o Y o )
Re: Ex-Marine decries prosecution in civilian court
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2008, 11:37:03 AM »
I agree, but based on the law etc.....they put this kid through hell.

And for what?!

Fucking politics.  >:(


youandme

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10957
Re: Ex-Marine decries prosecution in civilian court
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2008, 11:59:39 AM »
I saw this yesterday, it was really good seeing he was cleared of the charges