Author Topic: Keto for dummies  (Read 4396 times)

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Keto for dummies
« on: August 19, 2008, 03:59:59 PM »
I'm kicking ass on gaining weight, but curious about a short-term diet to cut up a bit. 

Anyone had success with a low-carb diet?  I don't want to go messing myself up with longterm anything, just cutting back for a few weeks.

Good idea, bad idea?  Any resources to share? thanks!

YoungBlood

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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2008, 04:07:13 PM »


Why would you be messed up on it?

There's no such thing as an essential carb!!!

As long as you aren't eating 200g+ of fat a day, you should be fine.

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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2008, 04:14:03 PM »
I don't know... heard bad things about people messing up kidneys with high protein, too much fat being bad for heart, etc.  Much of it could be BS.

I did a low carb diet on a whim 5 years ago when I was a fatass, and I got really close to having visible abs in less than a week.  It was very effective.  normally I'd just try it, but since I'm paranoid about health now, I wanted to check with my getbig phd brethren for input or resources.

NaturalWonder83

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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2008, 04:46:58 PM »
I did keto diet for about 12 weeks...i went from 225 down to 205...bodyfat dropped a lot...first few days are rough until your brain switches over to using ketones(fats) as a fuel source...during the diet i had good pumps and energy and strength in gym, my mood was good and steady, my complexion cleared up very well, and bodyfat dropped quite well...about 1-2 pounds every week...the diet has a lot of heart healthy fats in it...my bloodpressure and chlosterol improved on it...i had to do a lot of steady state cardio every day...usually 40 mins in the beginning to an hour in the AM, and then 30 minute post workout...for a natural i wouldnt stay on it longer than 16 weeks...plus u get a cheat meal once a week which is great

i loved the diet
w

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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 07:11:03 PM »
Try carb cycling, and going low to no carb on your days off, to test the waters..I got to say I've been doing it and it's pretty effective. Example Mon (400 g carbs), Tues (300 g carbs) Wed (200 g carbs) Thurs off day ( no carb) Friday (300 g carb) Sat (200 g carbs) Sunday off day ( no carb)..
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NaturalWonder83

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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 07:22:51 PM »
Try carb cycling, and going low to no carb on your days off, to test the waters..I got to say I've been doing it and it's pretty effective. Example Mon (400 g carbs), Tues (300 g carbs) Wed (200 g carbs) Thurs off day ( no carb) Friday (300 g carb) Sat (200 g carbs) Sunday off day ( no carb)..
do u keep fats in the diet like peanut butter olive oil etc? or is it just protein and carbs?
w

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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 07:43:49 PM »
do u keep fats in the diet like peanut butter olive oil etc? or is it just protein and carbs?

Yeah, lower fat on the higher carb days, and on the no carb days I take in some fats from eggs, oils, nuts. meats/fish.
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Markoni

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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008, 11:19:29 PM »
read Katogenic diet , from Lyle McDonald

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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2008, 10:33:17 AM »
some awesome info here, thanks guys~!

mar10s

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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2008, 02:02:39 PM »
I did keto diet for about 12 weeks...i went from 225 down to 205...bodyfat dropped a lot...first few days are rough until your brain switches over to using ketones(fats) as a fuel source...during the diet i had good pumps and energy and strength in gym, my mood was good and steady, my complexion cleared up very well, and bodyfat dropped quite well...about 1-2 pounds every week...the diet has a lot of heart healthy fats in it...my bloodpressure and chlosterol improved on it...i had to do a lot of steady state cardio every day...usually 40 mins in the beginning to an hour in the AM, and then 30 minute post workout...for a natural i wouldnt stay on it longer than 16 weeks...plus u get a cheat meal once a week which is great

i loved the diet

Natural, do you have any examples of daily food intake/meal plans?  I would like to try this also.  Are you saying no:  broccoli, oatmeal, etc?

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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2008, 12:49:09 PM »
Natural, do you have any examples of daily food intake/meal plans?  I would like to try this also.  Are you saying no:  broccoli, oatmeal, etc?

Ok lets say for your average 200 lbs guy trying to lean up this would be a "palumbo like diet "

Meal 1: 4 omega 3 eggs with 6 whites

Meal 2: 6 oz Chicken Breast with 1/3 cup of nuts ( almonds, walnuts, cashews vary them )

Meal 3: 40 grams of whey protein with 1.5 tbsp natural peanut butter.

Meal 4: Same as meal 2

Meal 5: 6 oz lean red meat/salmon w/one cup green veggies

Meal 6: Repeat Meal 1 or 3.

There u go !!!!

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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2008, 09:47:27 AM »
here you go 240...this should help some

The premise of the diet is high protein (about 1- 1 1/2 gram per pound), moderate fat (about 1/2 g per lb) and low low carbs (no direct sources of carbs). During this diet, the brain goes into ketosis (it uses ketone bodies for energy-- fats) and thus the energy requirements by the body can almost all be supplied by fats (which you'll be taking in plenty of). The only activity that uses carbs will be the weight workout which may use 40grams per workout. You will get these 40g indirectly through the foods you'll be eating. As a backup, the cheat meal you'll be having once per week will provide a storehouse of glycogen (glucose) in case of emergency. So, you see, very little gluconeogenesis in the liver will be occurring. If we keep cortisol low (by
restricting STIMULANTS) we'll ensure that muscle is spared!

HAVE YOUR CHEAT MEAL ON THE SAME DAY EVERY WEEK, last meal of the
day so you dont cheat again.

Fiber helps burn fat! Everyone should take fiber 2x per day. Fiber actually helps increase the absorption of calcium.
When following my diet plan (which includes getting your brain into ketosis), there can be NO starchy carbs eaten!



For a 200lb man:

MEAL #1
5 whole eggs (make sure to buy OMEGA-3 EGGS from the supermarket. They contain virtually NO saturated fat and tons of good OMEGA-3 fats); add another 4 egg whites to this (they don?t need to be the Omega-3 ones; you can use liquid egg whites)

MEAL #2
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)

MEAL #3
"Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken with 1/2-cup cashew nuts (almonds, or walnuts)

MEAL #4
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoons of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar added)

MEAL #5
"Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar

MEAL #6
SHAKE: 50g Whey with 1 ? tablespoon all natural peanut butter or 4 whole (Omega-3) eggs and 4 extra whites

For a 250lb+ man:
Meal 1 6 whole Omega-3 eggs
Meal 2 8oz chicken with 1/2 cup raw almonds
Meal 3 50g whey with 2 tablespoons all natural peanutbutter
Meal 4 8oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut oil
Meal 5 50 g whey with 2 tablespoon PB
Meal 6 6 whole eggs

Remember, it takes 3-4 days to get into a strong ketosis where your brain is using ketone bodies (fats), instead of carbs, for energy. Be patient.

Many times I'll switch to an alternatiing diet where one day it will be protein/fat......then another protein/vegetables (very little fat). The great thing about the body and fat is that ESSENTIAL FATTY ACIDS can be stored in the muscle for several days, up to 2 weeks......therefore, once an adequate storehouse of Essential Fats are built up, the body can be "tortured" a little and it still won't give up muscle (that's assuming you're still taking in adequate protein. Protein can't be stored).

1oz almonds equals 6g carbs (2 of those grams are fiber) and 2oz equals 12g of carbs.

With the beef meal (any fatty protein meal), you should have the green salad with 1 tablespoon of Olive or Mac oil INSTEAD of the nuts. Only eat the nuts with the LEAN PROTEIN MEAL (chicken, turkey, lean fish)

The best fat sources come from the essential fatty acids-- Omega-6 and Omega-3's. Most of us get plenty of Omega-6s from cooking oils, ect..........however the Omega-3's are harder to get. I recommend WHOLE OMEGA-3 EGGS, FaTTY FISHS like SALMON and SWORDFISH and TUNA and MACKEREL, ALMONDS and WALNUTS have some OMEGA-3's (as well as OMEGA-6s). ANother great fat source is MONOUNSATURATES such as EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL and MACADAMIA NUT OIL.....they aren't essential but they are great for the metabolism (great source of energy) and they are extremely good for your heart.

You're not getting any indirect sources of carbs (just from the 1 spoonful of PB.... you may want to have at least one 1/3cup nuts meal. Remember, Olive or Macadamia nut oil is predominantly a MONOUNSATURATED FAT (good for the heart, but not essential)........ the nuts, and fish oil have the essential fats in them. Also, with regard to FLAX SEED OIL, the OMEGA-3 Fatty Acids found in them (alpha-linolenic acid) has a very poor conversion to DHA and EPA (Essential Omega-3 intermediates) in the HUMAN........therefore, you're much better off taking in FISH OILS (that already contain DHA/EPA) than FLAX SEED OIL.

Once fat loss slows, I always increase cardio first, then I increase the amount of fat burners (clen, cytomel, lipolyze).........After those other methods are exhausted, only then, do I play with the diet.

Always eat BEFORE lifting........never BETWEEN lifting and cardio.
Artificial Sweetners:
The artificial sweetener itself (eg. aspartame, sucralose) wont cause a problem. It's what some companies complex it with. For example, EQUAL and SPLENDA combine their aspartame and sucrolose with 1g of maltodextrin........wher eas, in diet drinks, they don't do that. So, diet drinks are okay, SPLENDA and EQUAL must be used in moderation (STEVIA BALANCE is fine though since they use inulin fiber instead of maltodextrin

Forget using:
-MCT's are a waste when you're dieting. If you're gonna use FATS for an energy source, they might as well serve a function in the body. MCTs are useless. They can only serve as a source of energy!
-Arginine is not going to do anything. It will DO something; just not dramatic.

Cardio:
CARDIO should be performed at a low intensity (under 120bpm heartrate). This will ensure that you use FAT as a fuelsource since as your heartrate increase, carbohydrates begin to become the preferred fuel of choice for the body. When on a low carb diet, you're body will break down muscle and turn that into carbs. Remember, Fat CANNOT be changed into carbs. Therefore, for bodybuilding, the rule of cardio should be LONG DURATION, LOW INTENSITY

never do less than 20 min per session

The BOTTOM LINE is that low intensity cardio (while you might need more of it) ensures that fat is utilized and muscle is spared (especially while on my high protein/moderate fat/low carb diety).

Do you feel the treadmill is better for cardio, or is the bike(stationary or recumbent) just as good? As long as the intensity is LOW, it doesn't matter which piece of equipment you use

Q&A:
Q: Is gluconeogenesis inevitable in your diet?
Dave Palumbo: NO

Q: If so do I need to consume more than 1.5 grams of protein per lb of LBM so as not to lose muscle?
Dave Palumbo: The fat spares the protein....when the brain is in ketosis, the carbohydrate requirements are very very low.

Q: How much (percentage) of my protein intake would be turned into glucose (gluconeogenesis)?
Dave Palumbo: Very little (maybe 10%)

Q: What do you think of submersion in cold water as a means of burning bodyfat (thermogenesis)?
Dave Palumbo: HOCUS POKUS!

Q: How about drinking lots of cold water (I think this was even suggested by Elligton Darden) to help lose bodyfat?
Dave Palumbo: RIDICULOUS

Q: Do you think drinking lots of Green Tea is beneficial to fat loss?
Dave Palumbo: Somewhat helpful.

Q: How much is the ideal dosage of Omega 3 for a 220 lb. individual ?
Dave Palumbo: Try to take in about 9g per day

Q: How many Tbs of peanut butter could I have instead of 1/2 cup of cashewnuts?
Dave Palumbo: 2 tablespoons, two tablespoons of Peanut Butter contains 190 calories and 16 grams of fat (so 1.5 tablespoon equals about 12 grams fat) ...whereas......... 2oz (1/3 cup) almonds (about 40 almonds) = 12g fat

Q: I want to add that if I cant find the omega eggs here locally. Can I use international egg whites and just take an omega supplement?
Dave Palumbo: You can get away with 5 whole eggs (regular ones) once a day........not a big deal. You'll be burning up all that fat anyway.

Q: Whats the max cups # of coffee ( no sugar ) can consume on Dave's diet ?
Dave Palumbo: Try to limit to 2 cups per day.......I realize that towards the end of the diet you may need more to help you get through the day.

Q: If you cook tilapia in macadamon nut oil?do you coun't the oil as your fat for that meal! Depends how much you use.
Dave Palumbo: If you just grease the pan with it, no!

Q: what is the protein,carb and fat ratio for offseason
Dave Palumbo: 50% Protein, 25% fat, 25% carbs

Q: and the ratio for contest prep.
Dave Palumbo:60% protein, 30% fat, 10% carbs

HTH
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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2008, 10:53:44 AM »
I wouldn't dive straight into it.  Try a carb restricted diet first at around 100-150g/day and see how you do.  You can always drop it further.  My workout intensity suffers badly on low carbs.  No "brain trouble" for me but cravings will occur and I don't see the need to deal with it.  I never saw the need to carb cycle for my purposes either.  That seems like an approach for those who are already very lean, or who have stalled, but some experts like Wes swear by it so it could be the best approach around for all I know.

Obviously, avoid carb dense foods like bread, pastas, potatoes, rice, etc.  Go for stuff like beans (check the label for carb density) and veg.  You won't be missing out on food volume if you make good food choices.  150g of carbs from lentil beans and veggies is probably more volume than you could eat in a day, whereas you could eat it in bread in a single sitting.

Be aware of the fats in your protein sources and don't overconsume things like beef which are high in unhealthy fats (nothing wrong with a few steaks a week tho).  Try to get plenty of fats from fish oils.  Better if it's from the actual piece of fish so you get to eat something instead of just drinking oil or taking a pill.  Monounsaturateds are good too, as stated above (although I'm not so sure about the macadamia nuts - I think that's high in saturated fats).

Calorie restriction is key too obviously.  Avoid powders and shakes since they will just leave you hungry.  The biggest mistake I ever made while dieting was to think I had to feel hungry.  Just choose very calorie sparse foods (with water only to drink) and moderate your oil consumption, and I bet you won't be able to even eat 2000 cals/day and your gut will never be empty.

BTW, I find a digital food scale indispensable.

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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2008, 11:59:18 AM »
Still love how he claims this diet but then goes on to list cytomel, clen etc.... HAHAHA.  Even on a normal low carb diet, by doing cardio and taking in cytomel and clen you'll still get nice and lean.  What a tool palumbo is.  Also he forgets to mention the anavar, primo,deca,winny, test etc... that he's on to limit muscle loss.

NaturalWonder83

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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2008, 05:26:58 PM »
Natural, do you have any examples of daily food intake/meal plans?  I would like to try this also.  Are you saying no:  broccoli, oatmeal, etc?
all the info posted about the diet is right on the money

i also took 3000mg fish oil and 2600mg evening primrose oil per day

try to take a non stimulant fat burner on the diet

no ketchup and no tomatoes on diet
w

mar10s

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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2008, 06:13:45 PM »
all the info posted about the diet is right on the money

i also took 3000mg fish oil and 2600mg evening primrose oil per day

try to take a non stimulant fat burner on the diet

no ketchup and no tomatoes on diet

Cool, thanks natural.

NaturalWonder83

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Re: Keto for dummies
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2008, 05:55:55 PM »
Cool, thanks natural.
no problem
if u weigh less than 250lbs adjust the portions a bit
w