Organic Foods

[The True Adonis]

...and there's a huge difference between what I'm talking about and taste variations. Taste variations can be subtle and sometimes hard to pick out; what I'm talking about is a distinctly toxic, metallic, or bitter taste-specifically meats, eggs, and rinds.

Humans don`t even  have the tasting or nasal ability to even come close to isolating such nano-particulates. 

[Swedish Viking]

What would make you doubt that?  Like I said, I buy only the highest quality foods-which Kobe doesn't fall under imo, because they are grain fed.  The seed may determine the taste of the fruit but if you add something to the fruit, this can also change the taste-if you'll read above I think you'll find that that has been my argument the whole time.

[The True Adonis]

I`m laughing at Swedish Viking`s attempt to justify his reasoning.

In the meantime, he can have a look at what we harvested yesterday from the farm.

[Method101]

Organic chicken breasts are usually half the size non-organic ones, it tells you somthing about the wonders drugs do.

[The True Adonis]

What would make you doubt that?  Like I said, I buy only the highest quality foods-which Kobe doesn't fall under imo, because they are grain fed.  The seed may determine the taste of the fruit but if you add something to the fruit, this can also change the taste-if you'll read above I think you'll find that that has been my argument the whole time.

If you ate Kobe, you would have a change of mind.  Not much can taste better than Kobe.

[Swedish Viking]

It might taste good but a cow is a primarily grass eating animal, not a grain eating animal. 

Nice picture. Take one of your peaches, take a bite out of it and reflect on the taste, then spray it with Roundup, don't wash it, and take another bite. Tell me if it tastes the same the second time as it did the first time.  If that isn't enough good reasoning for you(and I don't see why it wouldn't be) then take those pits, plant them, mix all the water you use with Roundup or something like it, water them with that as well as coating the fruit with it, again don't wash it, pick it and eat it, and then tell me if you don't tell me the difference.  I'm not talking quantum mechanics here, I'm talking about taking something...nuetral, we'll say, adding something to it that definitely does not have a nuetral taste and then eating it.  That simple.

[The True Adonis]

It might taste good but a cow is a primarily grass eating animal, not a grain eating animal. 

Nice picture. Take one of your peaches, take a bite out of it and reflect on the taste, then spray it with Roundup, don't wash it, and take another bite. Tell me if it tastes the same the second time as it did the first time.  If that isn't enough good reasoning for you(and I don't see why it wouldn't be) then take those pits, plant them, mix all the water you use with Roundup or something like it, water them with that as well as coating the fruit with it, again don't wash it, pick it and eat it, and then tell me if you don't tell me the difference.  I'm not talking quantum mechanics here, I'm talking about taking something...nuetral, we'll say, adding something to it that definitely does not have a nuetral taste and then eating it.  That simple.

Roundup is not a pesticide. Roundup is an herbicide not used in agriculture cultivation. Roundup would NEVER be used in any instance.  Furthermore, pesticides are not used on half-eaten fruit.  That is not how pesticides are implemented or used.   Pesticides also carry such a broad term.  Citronella is classified as a pesticide, but we don`t go around calling that toxic now do we? 

[Swedish Viking]

Roundup is not a pesticide.  Roundup would NEVER be used in any instance.  Furthermore, pesticides are not used on half-eaten fruit.  That is not how pesticides are implemented or used.   Pesticides also carry such a broad term.  Citronella is classified as a pesticide, but we don`t go around calling that toxic now do we? 

  If you think Roundup isn't used you are fooling yourself.  The reason I said put it on half eaten fruit was so you could have a taste of it nuetral and then a taste of it altered-I think you know that I know people don't go around spraying their fruits mid-meal.  I also think you know that I am talking about mainstream pesticides that have been deemed or suspected toxic for human consumption in great quantities. 

[Hereford]

It might taste good but a cow is a primarily grass eating animal, not a grain eating animal. 

Nice picture. Take one of your peaches, take a bite out of it and reflect on the taste, then spray it with Roundup, don't wash it, and take another bite. Tell me if it tastes the same the second time as it did the first time.  If that isn't enough good reasoning for you(and I don't see why it wouldn't be) then take those pits, plant them, mix all the water you use with Roundup or something like it, water them with that as well as coating the fruit with it, again don't wash it, pick it and eat it, and then tell me if you don't tell me the difference.  I'm not talking quantum mechanics here, I'm talking about taking something...nuetral, we'll say, adding something to it that definitely does not have a nuetral taste and then eating it.  That simple.

1. Roundup is not used on Peaches or ony other orchard-type crop

2. Round-up is a glyphosate that has a functional life of 3-7 days. It is degraded by microorganisms in the soil.

3. Roundup is a herbicide, not a pesticide. Why would you spray it onto a tree.

[Swedish Viking]

Excuse me, replace the words Round Up with another common brand name pesticide.  In an attempt to put me down you still haven't adressed the real simple issue that you have something 'nuetral' tasting to begin with, treat it with something non-nuetral tasting, and expect no taste change. 

[The True Adonis]

Excuse me, replace the words Round Up with another common brand name pesticide.  In an attempt to put me down you still haven't adressed the real simple issue that you have something 'nuetral' tasting to begin with, treat it with something non-nuetral tasting, and expect no taste change. 

"Nuetral" is not a word and therefore I am not able to comprehend your point. Taste is genetic. In fact, one could argue that the non-organic variety may taste better due to the fact that it does not have to fight as hard for survival, thus the genes/alleles for flavor can be enhanced and manipulated a whole lot easier as survival is not an issue.   As you should know, wild berrys for instance will ALWAYS be way more bitter and largely inedible as Natural Selection has ensured their survival via chemical defense.

[Hereford]

SV, I am not attacking you personally, I just don't buy into your argument.

Pesticides and herbicides that are used in modern agriculture are designed to not have the lingering residues that you are refering to. Yes, this WAS the case in years past, with the use of DDT and such, but I don't believe it to be the case anymore.

I work in this industry, and the regulations that are in place by the USDA and industry co-ops and such are very tightly tested and regulated. No respectible farmer is going to go spray their crops with a substance that will leave a toxic fingerprint. They test for these substances. It is professional (and financial) suicide to not follow the rules put forth by the USDA.

As for something being 'neutral' tasting..... No way. I can take 9 conventional peaches and 1 organic one.... And you can tell me which one is the 'natural' one?

[Swedish Viking]

"Nuetral" is not a word and therefore I am not able to comprehend your point. Taste is genetic. In fact, one could argue that the non-organic variety may taste better due to the fact that it does not have to fight as hard for survival, thus the genes for flavor can be enhanced.   As you should know, wild berrys for instance will ALWAYS be way more bitter and largely inedible as Natural Selection has ensured their survival via chemical defense.

   You're using the same argument that doesn't qualify because we are talking about a genetic taste with something added to it.  I agree with you that the taste is genetic, that has never been the argument.  The argument has been weather something that begins tasting a certain way will still taste that same way after something else, with a distinctly different taste, has been added to it.  I think I could even write a proof for this, which I haven't done since college.
   I have watched you mispell and mis-use words with almost a voracity over the years; we all have and people have called you out on it(although there were far too many mistakes to waste time pointing out), so now I guess you are calling me out on the backwards placing of two letters.  I'm going to go ahead and assume that a spelling or grammatical error or two doesn't change many of the arguments on this board.

[Camel Jockey]

I've been doing some organic tomato and pepper farming. My soil is peatmoss, perlite, 1 tbl spoon hydrated lime per gallon of soil, and for nutrients I used blood meal, bone meal, glacial dust, and some weird salt for potassium. Results were different from what I buy at the supermarket(smaller tomatoes), but I could not taste the difference between what I grew and what I'd normally buy. I think when a person is told when they're eating organic they automatically assume that it's better, so naturally to them it tastes different when it actually doesn't. Like idiots who think the Advil brand of ibuprofen is any better than the cheaper RiteAid brand.

[Hereford]

I've been doing some organic tomato and pepper farming. My soil is peatmoss, perlite, 1 tbl spoon hydrated lime per gallon of soil, and for nutrients I used blood meal, bone meal, glacial dust, and some weird salt for potassium. Results were different from what I buy at the supermarket(smaller tomatoes), but I could not taste the difference between what I grew and what I'd normally buy. I think when a person is told when they're eating organic they automatically assume that it's better, so naturally to them it tastes different when it actually doesn't. Like idiots who think the Advil brand of ibuprofen is any better than the cheaper RiteAid brand.

Isn't this called the placebo effect?

[Camel Jockey]

Isn't this called the placebo effect?

Yes. Give some patient a sugar pill and tell them it's a brand new breakthrough in medicine and they'll feel better 90% of the time

These hippies feel good with their organic foods.

[Swedish Viking]

SV, I am not attacking you personally, I just don't buy into your argument.

Pesticides and herbicides that are used in modern agriculture are designed to not have the lingering residues that you are refering to. Yes, this WAS the case in years past, with the use of DDT and such, but I don't believe it to be the case anymore.

I work in this industry, and the regulations that are in place by the USDA and industry co-ops and such are very tightly tested and regulated. No respectible farmer is going to go spray their crops with a substance that will leave a toxic fingerprint. They test for these substances. It is professional (and financial) suicide to not follow the rules put forth by the USDA.

As for something being 'neutral' tasting..... No way. I can take 9 conventional peaches and 1 organic one.... And you can tell me which one is the 'natural' one?

  Thanks for the civilized answer directly relating to my post.  9 would be hard, but 3 I could do-especially if they weren't washed.  If it were meat or eggs I could definitely do 9.
   The US may be good with their standards, but South America, definitely Africa, and Asia often aren't.  In addition to that, toxicity is based on quantity(dose), much like everything else-and lower and lower quantities of various substances are being found to be harmful everyday.  

  The placebo effect can always apply and there's not much anyone can do about it.  I have known that organic farming isn't perfect for a long time and I notice it when my organic foods don't taste right, so I'm assuming the placebo affect isn't coming into play too much with me.

[Eyeball Chambers]

How?

Tastes way better, doesn't fill my throat with Phlegm.

Chicken and Beef from Wild Oats also tastes better. 

Don't know if it's because it is just fresher/better quality, or because it's organic?

[Hereford]

If I lived in Africa, South America or Asia I really wouldn't be concerning myself with pesticides in my fruit. I would be a lot more worried about having my ear shaved off by a machete, getting malaria from a mosquito, or meeting that guy Al Ahuakbar.

They still use DDT in Africa.

[Eyeball Chambers]

You don't think the chemicals and antibiotics used on our food can cause health related problems Hereford? 

[Camel Jockey]

You don't think the chemicals and antibiotics used on our food can cause health related problems Hereford? 

I dunno about fruits and veggies, but meat and poultry = different story. I was in Canada recently, and to me the chicken and beef there just tasted better. Even the chicken wings at KFC were smaller and had much more flavor LOL

[Hereford]

You don't think the chemicals and antibiotics used on our food can cause health related problems Hereford? 

Absolutly I do RP, I just don't think that there are the levels present that you guys believe there to be.

I think a lot of people are worried about what might be in the food supply, not what provably is.

[Eyeball Chambers]

As far as I know runoff from these non organic agricultural chemicals cause many environmental problems?

I raise Fruits/Vegetables in raised beds with 1/3 Pete moss, Vermiculite, and good compost.  So fresh and delicious, much cheaper as well. 

[Eyeball Chambers]

Absolutly I do RP, I just don't think that there are the levels present that you guys believe there to be.

I think a lot of people are worried about what might be in the food supply, not what provably is.

Yeah, I pretty much agree.  So don't say "you guys" lol 

[Swedish Viking]

If I lived in Africa, South America or Asia I really wouldn't be concerning myself with pesticides in my fruit. I would be a lot more worried about having my ear shaved off by a machete, getting malaria from a mosquito, or meeting that guy Al Ahuakbar.

They still use DDT in Africa.

  So you're basically saying(overview of all your posts) that there was a possible taste difference in the past but now that standards have gotten better there isn't one any longer.  Doesn't that sound more like a personal opinion to you rather than a fact?  If we know that at least 3 people in this thread alone have said that there is a taste difference, and I know that a great deal of raw foodists, vegetarians, and holistic eaters I have spoken with have said there is a taste difference then we can only assume that they are:
  A. Lying
  B. Right in regards to themselves and their ability to taste
  C. All experiencing the placebo effect on the mass scale

  A&C seem pretty improbable to me given that we are all pretty aware that the organic label has it's pitfalls and we notice them as well.  And like I said, it's not all in taste-the visual difference between a healthy egg yolk and a weak one is night and day.