Obama OK'd ‘Live Born’ Abortion

[Dos Equis]

Obama OK'd ‘Live Born’ Abortion

Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:38 AM

By: Jim Meyers 

Sen. Barack Obama’s pick of Sen. Joseph Biden, a pro-choice Catholic, will most certainly raise the abortion issue to a new level in the campaign.

Obama’s own record on abortion is steeped in controversy.

Barack Obama not only has a perfect record in opposing pro-life legislation, he even fought against a bill protecting the right to life of a baby born alive.

Author David Freddoso chronicles Obama’s radical pro-abortion record in his best-selling book “The Case Against Barack Obama: The Unlikely Rise and Unexamined Agenda of the Media’s Favorite Candidate.”

In March 2001, a bill was introduced in the Illinois Senate, where Obama was then serving, that stated in part: “A live child born as a result of an abortion shall be fully recognized as a human person and accorded immediate protection under the law.”

The bill came following an investigation of a Chicago-area hospital that left babies born alive to die without medical care.

“This bill was not an abortion law,” Freddoso writes. “It did not confer any right or legal status upon any baby not yet born. This bill had no legal conflicts with Roe v. Wade … Born and living survivors of abortion would be unambiguously considered ‘persons.’ Medically, scientifically, empirically, they were no different from the many premature babies who are born in American hospitals each year.”

Nevertheless, Sen. Obama spoke against the bill on the Senate floor.

He was the only senator to do so.

Arguing against the bill, Obama declared: “This is probably not going to survive constitutional scrutiny. Number one, whenever we define a pre-viable fetus as a person that is protected by the equal protection clause or other elements in the Constitution, what we’re really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to … a nine-month-old child that was delivered to term. That determination, then, essentially, if it was accepted by a court, would forbid abortions to take place … This would be an anti-abortion statute.”

According to Freddoso, Obama’s stance disregarded language in the bill that clearly stated it applied only to babies that have already been born.

Obama voted “present” on the bill. It passed the Senate, but later died in a House committee.

In 2002, the legislation was reintroduced in three separate bills. Obama voted against the two bills that received a vote and, once again, spoke in opposition on the Senate floor.

Obama also has opposed restrictions on partial-birth abortion, a late-term abortion that kills a partially delivered living fetus and is considered by some to be tantamount to infanticide.

Freddoso writes: “Obama has also voted ‘present’ (again, effectively a ‘no’ vote) on requiring parental notification (not parental consent) when minor children obtain abortions…

“I could find no instance in his entire career in which he voted for any regulation or restriction on the practice of abortion.”

Freddoso also quotes conservative columnist Terence P. Jeffrey: “Barack Obama is the most pro-abortion presidential candidate ever.”

And if elected, he would likely become the most pro-abortion president ever. In July 2007, Obama spoke before the Planned Parenthood Action Fund and said: “The first thing I’d do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act.”

Freddoso observes: “This bill would effectively cancel every state, federal, and local regulation of abortion, no matter how modest or reasonable. It would even, according to the National Organization of Women, abolish all state restrictions on government funding for abortions….

“In promising to sign this bill, Obama is promising to abolish state laws that protect doctors and nurses from losing their jobs if they refuse to participate in abortions. He is promising to abolish requirements for parental notification and informed consent for mothers who consider the procedure…

“Politicians’ promises are often empty, but this one deserves to be taken seriously.”
 
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/obama_live_born_abortion/2008/08/26/124988.html

[mightymouse72]

This cat is evil.  No other way to say it.  Despite anyones views on abortion, this act (infanticide) is in a field by itself.  It's hard for me to type while thinking about it. 

Pure murder.

[Hugo Chavez]

I've been undecided on abortion for my whole life.  But in this area, we're talking about late term abortion since I'm pretty sure you cannot have a viable baby in the early terms, correct me if I'm wrong, please.  I'm no expert on this.  So if we're only talking about late term, here's what we're looking at.

In 1997, the Guttmacher Institute estimated the number of abortions in the U.S. past 24 weeks to be 0.08%, or approximately 1,032 per year.[14]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-term_abortion

Now this is the shocker for me, reading this:
In 1987, the Alan Guttmacher Institute collected questionnaires from 1,900 women in the United States who came to clinics to have abortions. Of the 1,900 questioned, 420 had been pregnant for 16 or more weeks. These 420 women were asked to choose among a list of reasons why they had not obtained the abortions earlier in their pregnancies. The results were as follows:[3]


71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other

Now that's just some ignorant shit.  At this point in time based on these kind of reasons for late term abortion, I will only recognize the "2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy." and possibly the something changed if that something is the mother's life at risk.  The rest should be carried to term.  They should not lose their life due to the mother's ignorance.

[youandme]

I think it's pretty sick. Not even Barbra Boxer the famous (or infamous) pro choice supporter voted against this. She understood as did everyone else that once a baby is out of the mother crying and screaming it is alive....no matter what your definition of conception is.

Many doctors have quit the whole abortion procedure as a result of this conflicting with their hippocratic oath.

[bears]

obama is right though in the fact that this bill leads to a very slippery slope in favor of the pro lifers.  you're talking about a matter of seconds that separates the babies seeking protection under this bill and the babies that are aborted correctly through partial birth abortion.  a ban on partial birth abortion would soon follow.  then who knows.  liberal democrats will not allow this to happen.  no how no way.  obama is no dummy.

[Hugo Chavez]

obama is right though in the fact that this bill leads to a very slippery slope in favor of the pro lifers.  you're talking about a matter of seconds that separates the babies seeking protection under this bill and the babies that are aborted correctly through partial birth abortion.  a ban on partial birth abortion would soon follow.  then who knows.  liberal democrats will not allow this to happen.  no how no way.  obama is no dummy.

I was thinking that too.  Pretty clear that there is an agenda here for all abortion.  With the late terms stuff, I don't know why everybody can't just be reasonable, but they're not.  They can't do anything without pushing for the whole deal.

[Cap]

I've been undecided on abortion for my whole life.  But in this area, we're talking about late term abortion since I'm pretty sure you cannot have a viable baby in the early terms, correct me if I'm wrong, please.  I'm no expert on this.  So if we're only talking about late term, here's what we're looking at.

In 1997, the Guttmacher Institute estimated the number of abortions in the U.S. past 24 weeks to be 0.08%, or approximately 1,032 per year.[14]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-term_abortion

Now this is the shocker for me, reading this:
In 1987, the Alan Guttmacher Institute collected questionnaires from 1,900 women in the United States who came to clinics to have abortions. Of the 1,900 questioned, 420 had been pregnant for 16 or more weeks. These 420 women were asked to choose among a list of reasons why they had not obtained the abortions earlier in their pregnancies. The results were as follows:[3]


71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other

Now that's just some ignorant shit.  At this point in time based on these kind of reasons for late term abortion, I will only recognize the "2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy." and possibly the something changed if that something is the mother's life at risk.  The rest should be carried to term.  They should not lose their life due to the mother's ignorance.

My favorite post of yours yet man.   

[Hugo Chavez]

My favorite post of yours yet man.   

I'm still undecided on early abortion, but these are disgusting reasons for late term abortions and I'm disappointed with the women who had abortions late term for those reasons.  I would have never guessed ignorance would top the list of reasons but it does.  At that point in the pregnancy, ignorance is not any reason to terminate a life.

[240 is Back]

This cat is evil. 

100 years of war - for - energy.

Evil also?

[Hugo Chavez]

100 years of war - for - energy.

Evil also?

I would say it's even more evil.  Not for energy, for profit and power.  There is no serious effort for alternative energy and alternative power innovations end up getting suppressed all the way back to Tesla.  Power, control and profit and yea, it's evil and downright tyrannical.  On Obama's decision here, I'm not sure because I'm not sure on the abortion issue and there are clearly other factors here.

[Deedee]

I would say it's even more evil.  Not for energy, for profit and power.  There is no serious effort for alternative energy and alternative power innovations end up getting suppressed all the way back to Tesla.  Power, control and profit and yea, it's evil and downright tyrannical.  On Obama's decision here, I'm not sure because I'm not sure on the abortion issue and there are clearly other factors here.

Total non-issue.  Obama objected to the slippery slope wording of the original bill.  It was rewritten and passed into effect. * 

That wiki list of why women have late term abortions differs from others which state that the most prevalent reason has been severe malformation or congenital disease in the infant.  Once a late term abortion was performed, even if the new-born was breathing, generally they were not expected to survive beyond hours, day or days, so the point is moot. 

It's more of an issue that people don't have adequate health care to cover the costs of caring for severely deformed children, or those suffering from spina bifida, etc... and so have opted to abort their pregnancies instead.

The Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act (Public Law 108-105, HR 760, S 3, 18 U.S. Code 1531)[1] (or "PBA Ban") is a United States law prohibiting a form of late-term abortion that the Act calls partial-birth abortion. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that the term "partial-birth abortion" in the act pertains to a procedure that is medically called intact dilation and extraction.[2] Under this law, "Any physician who, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, knowingly performs a partial-birth abortion and thereby kills a human fetus shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both." The law was enacted in 2003, and in 2007 its constitutionality was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court, in the case of Gonzales v. Carhart.

[Hugo Chavez]

Total non-issue.  Obama objected to the slippery slope wording of the original bill.  It was rewritten and passed into effect. * 

That wiki list of why women have late term abortions differs from others which state that the most prevalent reason has been severe malformation or congenital disease in the infant.  Once a late term abortion was performed, even if the new-born was breathing, generally they were not expected to survive beyond hours, day or days, so the point is moot. 

It's more of an issue that people don't have adequate health care to cover the costs of caring for severely deformed children, or those suffering from spina bifida, etc... and so have opted to abort their pregnancies instead.

The Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act (Public Law 108-105, HR 760, S 3, 18 U.S. Code 1531)[1] (or "PBA Ban") is a United States law prohibiting a form of late-term abortion that the Act calls partial-birth abortion. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that the term "partial-birth abortion" in the act pertains to a procedure that is medically called intact dilation and extraction.[2] Under this law, "Any physician who, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, knowingly performs a partial-birth abortion and thereby kills a human fetus shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both." The law was enacted in 2003, and in 2007 its constitutionality was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court, in the case of Gonzales v. Carhart.

I really hope that list is BS that I posted.

[Deedee]

I really hope that list is BS that I posted.

The list you posted is from 1987 and concerns a little over 1,000 abortions a year.  The botched ones accounted for about 50.

But even so, even if it were true what does that say? Top two %: There are uneducated women, likely extremely obese so they can't tell heartburn from morning sickness, who wait till the last minute to get health care because they can't afford it.  Or early abortion was so unavailable or too costly that the pregnancy went on too long. People not being able to care for down's syndrome, spina bifida, congenitally ill children... goes back to inadequate health care... and THAT of course is not an issue at ALL for some people.

[Straw Man]

Here's Obama addressing this fake issue on Pat Robertsons CBN


http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/429328.aspx

[Hugo Chavez]

Here's Obama addressing this fake issue on Pat Robertsons CBN


http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/429328.aspx

BOOOOOM!!!!!  That certainly shines light on the original post above.  good post.

[Cap]

I'm still undecided on early abortion, but these are disgusting reasons for late term abortions and I'm disappointed with the women who had abortions late term for those reasons.  I would have never guessed ignorance would top the list of reasons but it does.  At that point in the pregnancy, ignorance is not any reason to terminate a life.

I am not for abortion at all but how someone could be so dumb or heartless really bothers me.  If that list is true, then only 2% of women could begin to make a compelling argument.  Regardless of the year, that says something.  With how liberal women have gotten with their bodies in the past 20 years, I imagine the numbers would at least be the same.

They should just deliver condoms to lower income areas by the millions.

[Hugo Chavez]

I am not for abortion at all but how someone could be so dumb or heartless really bothers me.  If that list is true, then only 2% of women could begin to make a compelling argument.  Regardless of the year, that says something.  With how liberal women have gotten with their bodies in the past 20 years, I imagine the numbers would at least be the same.

They should just deliver condoms to lower income areas by the millions.

well don't forget we're talking about a 2% of late term abortions which is a small percent of abortions so we're dealing with a very small number here.  But regardless, and I know that is an old list from 87, the majority of reasons given for late term are out of ignorance.  I would hope that the majority of women having late term abortions are doing so out of absolute need and not because they didn't know or whatever.

[Dos Equis]

Here's Obama addressing this fake issue on Pat Robertsons CBN


http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/429328.aspx

This interview adds nothing to his comments stated in the story: 

Arguing against the bill, Obama declared: “This is probably not going to survive constitutional scrutiny. Number one, whenever we define a pre-viable fetus as a person that is protected by the equal protection clause or other elements in the Constitution, what we’re really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to … a nine-month-old child that was delivered to term. That determination, then, essentially, if it was accepted by a court, would forbid abortions to take place … This would be an anti-abortion statute.”

He was apparently the only senator who had this concern. 

[Straw Man]

This interview adds nothing to his comments stated in the story: 

Arguing against the bill, Obama declared: “This is probably not going to survive constitutional scrutiny. Number one, whenever we define a pre-viable fetus as a person that is protected by the equal protection clause or other elements in the Constitution, what we’re really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to … a nine-month-old child that was delivered to term. That determination, then, essentially, if it was accepted by a court, would forbid abortions to take place … This would be an anti-abortion statute.”

He was apparently the only senator who had this concern. 

he understood that the purported claim of the bill was moot since all babies were legally entitled to care by both Federal and State law

he also understood/believed that the real intent of the bill was to set a state level  precedent to overturn R v. W

[Hereford]

They should just deliver condoms to lower income areas by the millions.

They should conduct mass-sterilization programs in the lower income areas.....

[youandme]

They should just deliver condoms to lower income areas by the millions.

They do 

And they use them as ballons for Birthdays


Bada bam


Here all night folks

[shootfighter1]

I can't believe he got off so quickly on this one.  he had a very radical position on this.  Probably not because he is a sadist, but because he sees it as a slippery slope to overturning Roe v Wade.  nonetheless, its a very scary vote that should shock people.

Personally, I have far more problems with elective late term abortions (outside of risk to the mother) compared to 1st trimester abortions.

[Decker]

Doesn't McCain oppose abortion even if the mother's life is at risk?

I suppose he's never heard of an ectopic pregnancy.  An EP occurs when the embryo attaches to some area other than the uterus...usually it's the fallopian tubes.

EPs can be extremely painful to the mother and result in the destruction of her reproductive organs and/or her death from internal bleeding.  The chance of the embryo surviving an EP is almost nonexistent while the risk to the mother is huge.

Anyone claiming that abortion in an Ectopic pregnancy is wrong needs his/her head examined.

[shootfighter1]

I don't believe so Decker, but I could be wrong. 

No doubt that an ectopic pregnancy can be deadly and there should be no issue there.

[Decker]

I don't believe so Decker, but I could be wrong. 

No doubt that an ectopic pregnancy can be deadly and there should be no issue there.

I'm going off-topic again.  This thread is about Obama. 

Thanks for the info on McCain.