About to get a personal handgun - suggestions?

[www.BrinkZone.com]

poor mans Glock

Glock is a poor mans HK son. HK invented the polymer pistol BTW, not Glock.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

I'd rank them

1. HK
2. Sig
3. Glock

For what use and what population? The average non dedicated shooter? Basic civi and or general LEO? For people that just want a well made reliable gun that needs little upkeep, I agree, get a Glock, etc. As Hilton Yam said:

"For non-dedicated personnel, they are better served by a modern, low maintenance weapon such as a Glock, SIG, or HK."

However, there is one gun and one gun only that sits on top of the handgun world, and that's the 1911. That's why
LAPD SWAT, USSOCOM, USMC Det-1, USMC MEUSOC, FBI HRT, FBI SWAT, and many other top combat shooters use it. The average cop will get a Glock, and the high end combat shooters on their SWAT/RRT teams will use a 1911. The average LEO is not a gun person by nature, nor very well trained in the use of their service weapons. The 1911 also owns all your shooting competitions also, and for good reason. As Mr Yam says:


"A tuned 1911 is a high performance machine capable of allowing the skilled user to reach his maximum performance potential.For a dedicated and knowledgeable end user, the 1911 has no equal."

Or as Larry Vickers put it so well:

"GIs carrying 1911s defeated Axis forces, including Austrians. The 1911 was winning battles and saving lives before Gaston Glock was even born - somewhere along the way we probably figured out a thing or two on combat handguns."

They're just so reliable and you can beat the hell out of them and they keep right on working.

They break just like any other gun. In the 10 man SWAT team I was training, 2 Glocks went FUBAR in 12 weeks of training. Not one Sig did that BTW. Glocks are perfectly good well made guns (if you can stand the horrible ergonomics, the crappy trigger, and sh*% sites) but there are far better and most of what people think about Glocks is perpetuated by Glock...

[laurion]

H&K Compact USP .40 caliber.   End of thread

Exactly what I own...... nice

[laurion]

I own several firearms but when I carry, I carry a .22.  Unless you just plan on taking on an entire military you have no need for anything else.  That being said I prefer the Walther P22
1. THE highest level of concealability (this isn't the wild west no need to show off)
2. More than enough powerful (you'll never need to shoot from a greater distance than a P22 is capable)
3. Big caliber = ignorance or small penis'    Considering if you do have to defend yourself and you use a large caliber, in court it's hard to     prove that you were only acting for personal defence.  Trust me there's precedence

[laurion]

Or just ask his guy

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj69/jdfarnsy/august2009-thumb.jpg

 

[benchmstr]

how big are your hands?

i have rather large hands, so most of my handguns are .45s. the handles on a 45(except the 1911) are always going to be bigger due to a large round that is double stacked in a magazine.

if you go with 45
1)h&k USP tactical 45 (what i carry at work, and some tours in the sandbox)
2)glock 21 (the aftermarket is endless,i really recommend this one.i love mine)

40s&w
1)glock 23 (it is the midsize version, but it is the best feeling and shooting handgun i own)
2)glock 22 (i really don't like to shoot this one,but it is a prooven shooter)

9mm
1)glock 17
2)berretta 92f

i listed no compacts for a reason,you really need to practice basic shooting fundamentals before you make a decision to get a CHL. then when your ready, you can do whatever you want and you will acquire a taste for what you like in a gun.But as far as practice goes the learning process goes, compacts only make you develop bad habits

now if you choose a glock,send me a pm or start a thread. because i can help you make that thing a beast that will put $2000+ handguns to shame.

bench

[chaos]

how big are your hands?

i have rather large hands, so most of my handguns are .45s. the handles on a 45(except the 1911) are always going to be bigger due to a large round that is double stacked in a magazine.

if you go with 45
1)h&k USP tactical 45 (what i carry at work, and some tours in the sandbox)
2)glock 21 (the aftermarket is endless,i really recommend this one.i love mine)

40s&w
1)glock 23 (it is the midsize version, but it is the best feeling and shooting handgun i own)
2)glock 22 (i really don't like to shoot this one,but it is a prooven shooter)

9mm
1)glock 17
2)berretta 92f

i listed no compacts for a reason,you really need to practice basic shooting fundamentals before you make a decision to get a CHL. then when your ready, you can do whatever you want and you will acquire a taste for what you like in a gun.But as far as practice goes the learning process goes, compacts only make you develop bad habits

now if you choose a glock,send me a pm or start a thread. because i can help you make that thing a beast that will put $2000+ handguns to shame.

bench

No SIG in the 40S&W ?

[benchmstr]

No SIG in the 40S&W ?

its all about preference, and even though i think Sig make a damn fine handgun(one of the best) they are the most uncomfortable handguns made.

you will not find many novice shooters(like the one who started this thread) that will be comfortable behind a Sig. the Sig lacks a major ergonomic that a novice shooter needs. that ergo is a natural point of aim which the other weapons i mentioned have.

and if you read my previous post, you will see where i mentioned he would eventually acquire a taste for what he wants in a handgun. when that time comes he might really like the Sig, but for now i think it would just be a expensive investment that he wouldn't be satisfied with.

bench

[240 is Back]

brink- agree completely on the 1911 for those purposes.

i was just keeping it simple for him in the personal handgun defense department.

the last thing i'd recomment to a newbie for carry is a 1911.

glock 26 or 27 is the best bat, value, dependability, IMO.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

the last thing i'd recomment to a newbie for carry is a 1911.

Agreed. 

[www.BrinkZone.com]

I own several firearms but when I carry, I carry a .22.  Unless you just plan on taking on an entire military you have no need for anything else.  That being said I prefer the Walther P22
1. THE highest level of concealability (this isn't the wild west no need to show off)
2. More than enough powerful (you'll never need to shoot from a greater distance than a P22 is capable)
3. Big caliber = ignorance or small penis'    Considering if you do have to defend yourself and you use a large caliber, in court it's hard to     prove that you were only acting for personal defence.  Trust me there's precedence

The only precedence in the above is you clearly don't know sh&^ about guns, terminal ballistics, or the laws regarding SD. I have not seen that much terrible advice and incorrect advice in a single post in a long time and why I tell people not to get their advice on such issues on bb.ing forums.

If you want to trust your life to a .22, that's your business, but don't spew ignorance about the topic with "you have no need for anything else." The "precedence" is, the 9mm is considered the minimum SD rnd by the experts in the field, and the reason most police depts have switched from the 9mm to the .40., was due to the lack of potency of the 9mm, much less a .22

Terminal ballistics for the handgun rnds are well known and well established. Legally, from personal defense perspective, your best bet is to find out what caliber and brand your local PD uses and carry that,  generally Speer Gold Dot, Winchester SXT, or Federal, in 9mm or .40., with a small % of depts using .357 Sig or .45 ACP

That's the advice you will get from those who actually deal with such things. 

[chaos]

its all about preference, and even though i think Sig make a damn fine handgun(one of the best) they are the most uncomfortable handguns made.

you will not find many novice shooters(like the one who started this thread) that will be comfortable behind a Sig. the Sig lacks a major ergonomic that a novice shooter needs. that ergo is a natural point of aim which the other weapons i mentioned have.

and if you read my previous post, you will see where i mentioned he would eventually acquire a taste for what he wants in a handgun. when that time comes he might really like the Sig, but for now i think it would just be a expensive investment that he wouldn't be satisfied with.

bench

My SIG fits my hand just fine, thank you......then again, so does my S&W.

[Brixtonbulldog]

It's not amazing... a walther PPK might be a tad preferable.
Its not the most fun thing to shoot, but for a pocket rocket when you can't carry a glock comfortably, it gets the job done.
I forgot about the Walther PPk, james bond's old gun.  Very cool weapon.  Turns your thumb into grated cheese when you put 400 rounds thru it in an afternoon, but has a safety and is built very well.

I love my PPK/S but if given the chance to do over I wouldn't buy one. 

Accuracy is marginal and this gun LOVES to jam up. 

I like the new Walther P99 series.. much better quality. 

[www.BrinkZone.com]

I love my PPK/S but if given the chance to do over I wouldn't buy one. 

Accuracy is marginal and this gun LOVES to jam up. 

I like the new Walther P99 series.. much better quality. 

Makes no sense in this day and age to carry a Walther ppk. You now have modern handguns that are approx the same size shooting a more effective rnd (9mm or .40) that are very reliable. For example, the Kahr PM series:

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_9mm_pm.html

Very reliable, well built, and amazingly accurate. If one wants a PPK for the historical factor, that's cool, but it's time has passed a long time ago as a choice for personal SD.

[noworries]

44 Automag with a 9" barrel

[Brixtonbulldog]

Makes no sense in this day and age to carry a Walther ppk. You now have modern handguns that are approx the same size shooting a more effective rnd (9mm or .40) that are very reliable. For example, the Kahr PM series:

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_9mm_pm.html

Very reliable, well built, and amazingly accurate. If one wants a PPK for the historical factor, that's cool, but it's time has passed a long time ago as a choice for personal SD.

Agreed.  I would definitely like a 40 S&W with a few more rounds in the clip and better reliability and accuracy.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

Agreed.  I would definitely like a 40 S&W with a few more rounds in the clip and better reliability and accuracy.

Kahr is the way to go then. 

[benchmstr]

My SIG fits my hand just fine, thank you......then again, so does my S&W.

you know whats funny, all these people try real hard to get a CHL and i am REQUIRED to carry one when i am not at work, and i still dont.I always have my AR in the truck, and most of the time i have one of my sniper rifles, not because i might need it, just because i was too lazy to carry it in the house

bench

[benchmstr]

Kahr is the way to go then. 

kahr does make a fine concealed handgun,when i was in iraq and astan a few guys would carry them as a last ditch back up.I see alot of guys in LE use them for off duty now that i am in this line of work .

i have never shot one though

bench

[www.BrinkZone.com]

kahr does make a fine concealed handgun,when i was in iraq and astan a few guys would carry them as a last ditch back up.

Man, if you are reaching for your sub compact Kahr in Iraq, now THAT'S some last ditch sh&% right there! 

I see alot of guys in LE use them for off duty now that i am in this line of work .

They are approved as back up for NYPD and other major depts.

i have never shot one though

bench

They shoot AMAZINGLY well for such a small gun with a great out of the box smooth trigger, although a long pull being DAO.

[~weed~]

You should ask this dude:

[benchmstr]

Man, if you are reaching for your sub compact Kahr in Iraq, now THAT'S some last ditch sh&% right there! 

They are approved as back up for NYPD and other major depts.
They shoot AMAZINGLY well for such a small gun with a great out of the box smooth trigger, although a long pull being DAO.

that aint no shit, its more appealing than a KBAR though.That shit makes it almost impossible to clean out your fingernails

bench

[240 is Back]

I agree -

a .22 isn't enough to save your life in a shootout.  You can kill small varmints with it.  But you sure can't stop a man from killing you should he also be firing a weapon. 

a 45, 40, and maybe 9, hit center mass, may make him reconsider. 

[chaos]

I agree -

a .22 isn't enough to save your life in a shootout.  You can kill small varmints with it.  But you sure can't stop a man from killing you should he also be firing a weapon. 

a 45, 40, and maybe 9, hit center mass, may make him reconsider. 

What about the good ole trusty .357 revolver? Would that make him reconsider?

[benchmstr]

What about the good ole trusty .357 revolver? Would that make him reconsider?

i took a .357 revolver off of a crackhead last night, i really dont think the damn thing would shoot though. the handle was broken and was wrapped with packing foam and scotch tape, the inside of the barrel was really rusty (think clumps)  and the outside surface was pitted. He only had one bullet in it too, and it was in worse shape than the gun

or you can do what i do, just leave your EDM windrunner 408 in the backseat of your truck. nothing says get the fuck away like a bullet that puts a 50BMG to shame

after how much i paid for the gun + optics, you would think i would take it out of my truck at night

http://www.edmarms.com/products/m408.htm

bench