Let's settle the experience debate once and for all

[240 is Back]

Really, let's compare Palin and Obama objectively, since the Republicans claim Palin is Obama's equal, or even that Palin is more qualified to possibly be President.

Undergraduate
Obama
-early undergrad at Occidental college, ranked 37th among liberal arts colleges by US News and World Report
-he did well enough to transfer to Columbia, the third most selective Ivy League college, Columbia being only slightly less selective than Harvard and Yale

Palin
-Went to the University of Idaho. While a decent school, it's considered a third tier school by the US News rankings.


Graduate
Obama
Harvard Law School.
-editor of law review in first year based on grades and writing ability. For those of you who are unaware, this essentially marks him as among the smartest and most able in a group full of very smart and able people.
-President of Law review in his second year. First black president of Harvard Law Review. Again, a very prestigious position, and marks him as both a leader, and as someone of exceptional ability.
-Graduated Magna Cum Laude (highest academic honors), again a significant achievement among a group of significant achievers.

Palin
N/A

Objectively then, Obama is either significantly smarter, harder working or both than Palin. His undergraduate education is objectively and provably better. His grad work proves that he was leaps and bounds beyond Palin in terms of intellectual and leadership ability. You don't get to be President of Harvard Law Review by being average, or a shrinking violet.

Advantage: Obama

Work, non governmental:
BIC-1983-1984
NY Public Interest Research Group-1984-85
Developing Communities Project, Director-85-88
University of Chicago School of Law-Constitutional law lecturer, 92-2004
(University of Chicago is ranked 7th among US Law schools. The fact that Obama got emplyment here, and then was able to continue, marks him as someone exptionally smart and able)
Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, 1993-2004, attorney

Palin
with husband in commercial fishing
and a brief stint as a TV reporter

Advantage: Obama His non-governmental work experience is more diverse, and objectively marks him as someone smarter and more able than Palin.

Governmental Experience

Obama
1997-2004 State senator of Illinois' 13th district. That district has nearly 800,000 people in it.

2005-present Illinois Senator

Palin
City councilwoman of Wasilla, a town of 6k, 1992-1996
Mayor of Wasilla, 1996-2004
governor of Alaska, 2006-present. Note that Alaska has 600k people in the whole state.

Advantage: Obama As both senator and state representative, Obama has experience representing more people, and larger districts with larger issues than does Palin.

Honestly, if you were on the search committee for, say, a board of director's position of a fortune 500 company, who would get the nod, Obama or Palin? It's Obama, if you have even a shred of honesty in your body. Given that, why is Palin even in the ballpark as number 2 in line for the Presidency? Don't get me wrong, Sarah Palin has some achievements, and she has a right to be proud of them. But realistically, in any category that matters Obama is better than Sarah Palin.

[shootfighter1]

From your post, his education is superior.  Your also comparing a presidential candidate to a vice presidential candidate.  Now compare McCain or Biden's political experience to Obama.

Your ability to lead is not always reflective of schooling.  I know tons of people who went to great schools with graduate degrees who are horrible leaders.  Something thats not measured by school diplomas is common sense.  I swear some of these highly educated lawyers turned senators are why we have so much gridlock in Washington.  Having a strong govenor from outside washington could help balance McCain because he, like Biden, have been in Washington for so long.

[Benny B]

From your post, his education is superior.  Your also comparing a presidential candidate to a vice presidential candidate.  Now compare McCain or Biden's political experience to Obama.

The VP has to be just as ready to lead as the President, genius. What if McCain chokes on a pretzel on January 22nd?

Your ability to lead is not always reflective of schooling.  I know tons of people who went to great schools with graduate degrees who are horrible leaders.  Something thats not measured by school diplomas is common sense.  I swear some of these highly educated lawyers turned senators are why we have so much gridlock in Washington.  Having a strong govenor from outside washington could help balance McCain because he, like Biden, have been in Washington for so long.

18 million plus voters expressed a belief in Obama's readiness to lead during the democratic primaries. How many have voted for McCain's irresponsible selection to be his VP? 

[shootfighter1]

Why do you continue with your insults?  "genius".  A good debate is devoid of all that bullshit benny.
I'd be happy to compare my resume against yours any day.   

[Benny B]

Why do you continue with your insults?  "genius".  A good debate is devoid of all that bullshit benny.
I'd be happy to compare my resume against yours any day.   

Are we on are period today, sweetie? 
I don't give a fuck about your "resume".
Respond to my post above...if you can. I don't give a shit.

[calmus]

i'd be more inclined to rely on someone who had a Columbia BA with distinction than on someone who had a second-tier MD...

[Straw Man]

For me the much more important question is which candidate has the better judgement.

Everyone will look at the facts (or spin) and make their own decision.

For me it's Obama

[Cap]

Just for clarification Rob, isn't Summa Cum Laude the highest honor one could receive?

BTW, you'd think with Obama's experience he'd be able to handle questions better, even without his script.

People forget, Hitler was a great orator too.  

[Benny B]

i'd be more inclined to rely on someone who had a Columbia BA with distinction than on someone who had a second-tier MD...

Yes, people constantly reference Obama's Harvard Law degree, which is clearly impressive. However, his undergrad was at Columbia (also Ivy League, for those who not know) majoring in International Affairs. That is partially why Obama feels so confident on issues of international diplomacy. Columbia has an excellent International Affairs department, and I should know. 

I am not really a "school elitist", however. Some of the smartest people around are from small schools and/or large state universities. It is the academic achievement required to be accepted that is the hardest part of getting into a "top 20 school". Accounting is accounting no matter where you learn it. The principles do not change. The advantage of the "elite" schools are the contacts you make and the doors opened to you from all of the successful alumni who ONLY hire from the so-called top tier schools. Top investment banks on Wall Street like Goldman Sachs, for example, pretty much limit their hiring to about 10 schools. That's why I admire Obama...He could have taken a job at Goldman or Morgan Stanley and have been making $250K two years out of grad school.

For me the much more important question is which candidate has the better judgement.

Everyone will look at the facts (or spin) and make their own decision.

For me it's Obama

Absolutely. I feel very assured by Obama's judgment. Everything from the smoothness with which his campaign has been run to his thoughtful consideration before he speaks and his opinion on key issues leads to me to believe we will have a rational thinking man in the White House once again should Obama become president.

[calmus]

Yes, people constantly reference Obama's Harvard Law degree, which is clearly impressive. However, his undergrad was at Columbia (also Ivy League, for those who not know) majoring in International Affairs. That is partially why Obama feels so confident on issues of international diplomacy. Columbia has an excellent International Affairs department, and I should know. 

I am not really a "school elitist", however. Some of the smartest people around are from small schools and/or large state universities. It is the academic achievement required to be accepted that is the hardest part of getting into a "top 20 school". Accounting is accounting no matter where you learn it. The principles do not change. The advantage of the "elite" schools are the contacts you make and the doors opened to you from all of the successful alumni who ONLY hire from the so-called top tier schools. Top investment banks on Wall Street like Goldman Sachs, for example, pretty much limit their hiring to about 10 schools. That's why I admire Obama...He could have taken a job at Goldman or Morgan Stanley and have been making $250K two years out of grad school.

I thought he did work for Goldman or some other i-bank for a short time as an analyst. didn't like it much. can't blame him.

[Benny B]

Just for clarification Rob, isn't Summa Cum Laude the highest honor one could receive?

BTW, you'd think with Obama's experience he'd be able to handle questions better, even without his script.

People forget, Hitler was a great orator too.  

I think he handles questions thoughtfully and intelligently.
 
Abraham Lincoln, Frederick Douglass, FDR, and JFK were great orators too, yet you choose to mention Hitler. 

[Cap]

I think he handles questions thoughtfully and intelligently.
 
Abraham Lincoln, Frederick Douglass, FDR, and JFK were great orators too, yet you choose to mention Hitler. 

Benny, you know I like to stir the pot.

His scripted speeches are close to flawless.  The others, IMO, are not.

Remember, I'm not a big fan of either candidate so understand my comments in that context.

[Benny B]

I thought he did work for Goldman or some other i-bank for a short time as an analyst. didn't like it much. can't blame him.

You may be right. I don't know bro...I'd have stuck it out at Goldman.  I worked for a smaller finaincial startup in one of the same buildings as Goldman in Lower Manhattan (just a couple of blocks from the "official" Wall Street). I was treated well, with late night car service on Navigators to take me home late at night and other little perks. But the Goldman boys are treated like kings with their catered lunches and limo service after their long ours at the office. Some of those guys would leave after 10pm every night.  But five years of the big bucks and after burnout you can try something less intense. I just think with Obama the passion wasn't there and his mom instilled in him the concept of making a difference in the world instead of just making money.

[Benny B]

Benny, you know I like to stir the pot.

Yes you do! But I have to bust ya' when you're off base. 

His scripted speeches are close to flawless.  The others, IMO, are not.

I don't agree, but that is my opinion. He speaks off the cuff all the time in campaign rallies, and his humor and biting attacks on Bush-McCain really connect with the audience.

[Dos Equis]

lol . . . This is really comical.  Talk about protesting too much. 

In any event, if you're going to "settle the experience debate once and for all," you would do what shoot said and compare Obama with McCain.   

Regarding Obama and Palin, she has grassroots executive experience and Obama does not. 

[Benny B]

Regarding Obama and Palin, she has grassroots executive experience and Obama does not. 

"Grassroots executive experience" doesn't been shit to me, personally. Not when it is 20 months of governing a population of less than 700K.  I wouldn't trust the Bronx Borough President to run the country either, and the Bronx alone probably has 2 million people. Obama has over a DECADE of legislative experience on a whole host of issues.

[Cap]

Yes you do! But I have to bust ya' when you're off base.  ;)I don't agree, but that is my opinion. He speaks off the cuff all the time in campaign rallies, and his humor and biting attacks on Bush-McCain really connect with the audience.

I guess we can leave it at that then.   

I think McCain made a wise choice with Palin.  She appeals to conservatives and women, who are looking for a reason not to vote for Obama after Hilary lost.

You can make negative comments about either but in the end, only one has had multiple ties to radical groups.  To me that is a bigger danger than no Master's degree.  

Rob, if you want to vote Dem then go for it but don't keep up the Republican claims.

[Dos Equis]

"Grassroots executive experience" doesn't been shit to me, personally. Not when it is 20 months of governing a population of less than 700K.  I wouldn't trust the Bronx Borough President to run the country either, and the Bronx alone probably has 2 million people. Obama has over a DECADE of legislative experience on a whole host of issues.

Obviously your opinion.  As I've said in other threads, grassroots experience makes a person better qualified to be president.  Serving on the city council, as mayor, state legislature, and governor is ideal training for president, along with military training. 

Obama has zero experience as an executive.   

[Benny B]

Obviously your opinion.  As I've said in other threads, grassroots experience makes a person better qualified to be president.  Serving on the city council, as mayor, state legislature, and governor is ideal training for president, along with military training. 

Obama has zero experience as an executive.   

Of course it is "obviously my opinion", nimrod. It's my post. 

We'll see come election day. You better hope this woman whose vast "executive experience" you are enamored with doesn't fuck up prior to election day. She's had zero experience under the glaring national spotlight.

[Soul Crusher]

Bump