Evangelicals rally behind Palin after pregnancy news

[CQ]

Since when do teenagers have a "right" to condoms? 

They don't.

I guess some like Palin prefer their kids pregnant, which is of course the more preferable option than getting a terminal disease like AIDS.

I'll take my kid using a condom, before I stand over her grave and bury her personally

[CQ]

And she's poking into other kids' sex life HOW?

Read up on her plans she wanted to implement in Wasilla [sp?] I mentioned them already.

But, the left is talking out of both sides of their mouth. As I said, it doesn't matter which kind of sex education was advanced, the girl didn't heed it. If Palin backed "comprehensive sex education" and her daughter got knocked up anyway, NOBODY ON THE LEFT would be talking about worthless and ineffective "comprehensive sex education" is or demand that it stopped being funded.

Totally agree with you on not heeding. I think it is safe to say most teens who get pregnant weren't advised by their parents to do so.

But in the end, if she didn't want ppl to talk about it, common sense says don't slap your family in the spotlight. Right or wrong, fact is it will be talked about. She's the google news headline when I logged on this morning! She's all over the TV and magazines. CNN spent forever discussing it last night. Sites are calling her deplorable nasty names. CQ posting her opinions is nothing, she is headline news. I didn't make that choice - Palins did.

[MCWAY]

They don't.

I guess some like Palin prefer their kids pregnant, which is of course the more preferable option than getting a terminal disease like AIDS.

I'll take my kid using a condom, before I stand over her grave and bury her personally

No. Some like Palin prefer that their kids NOT ENGAGE IN what causes people to get pregnant or get AIDS, in the first place.

Would you encourage your teen daughter that it's OK to go to a sperm bank, as long she has a healthy dose of pills or a diaphragm?

I guess some people (particularly on the left) keep forgetting that sexual intercourse is HOW WE MAKE BABIES ON THIS PLANET.

If you don’t want, or aren’t in a position to take care of, a baby, engaging in baby-making procedures is just plain dumb.

Then opt your kid OUT of sex education then, ...but the fact remains that kids are going to do what they're going to do. And not ALL parents educate their children, and if educating them means they do what they're going to do in a safer, more responsible way, ...then more power to them.

What you forget, Jaguar, is that teenages ALSO think that they're invincible, that nothing is going to happen to them. What happens if you teach them about using condoms, yet they DON'T use them? They won't be any less knocked up; The clap or genital warts (which condoms CAN'T STOP, by the way) aren't any less there.

Only in the sense that most Democrats don't get worked into a frenzy frothing at the mouth over these things.
it's the evangelical right that get's rabid about a teen fornicating, and getting pregnant. Quite the hypocritical about face for them.

Yep, I'm sure Democrats, whose teen daughters are screwing around, are just cool as cucumbers when they find out about it.

And, what's hypocritical about the stance? The sin is the fornicating, not the baby that resulted from it. That's a human life, which many feel doesn't deserve to be dismembered, simply because Bristol Palin couldn't keep her panties on.

[CQ]

No. Some like Palin prefer that their kids NOT ENGAGE IN what causes people to get pregnant or get AIDS, in the first place.

Yes, and to use Bush's term - Heckofva job there Palin.

I see her teen really avoided haviing sex, thats obvious. Bang up job there.

Would you encourage your teen daughter that it's OK to go to a sperm bank, as long she has a healthy dose of pills or a diaphragm?

I guess some people (particularly on the left) keep forgetting that sexual intercourse is HOW WE MAKE BABIES ON THIS PLANET.

If you don’t want, or aren’t in a position to take care of, a baby, engaging in baby-making procedures is just plain dumb.

I totally agree baby making efforts when not ready are dumb, not like I went that route, not my kid either.

What you forget, Jaguar, is that teenages ALSO think that they're invincible, that nothing is going to happen to them. What happens if you teach them about using condoms, yet they DON'T use them? They won't be any less knocked up; The clap or genital warts (which condoms CAN'T STOP, by the way) aren't any less there.

And exactly - teens do think they are invincible. And they all do what we tell them not to. Did Palin tell her kid to take pics with liquor and post them online? Tell her to get knocked up from a high school dropout?

So why think telling them not to have sex is foolproof lol.

Yep, I'm sure Democrats, whose teen daughters are screwing around, are just cool as cucumbers when they find out about it.

And, what's hypocritical about the stance? The sin is the fornicating, not the baby that resulted from it. That's a human life, which many feel doesn't deserve to be dismembered, simply because Bristol Palin couldn't keep her panties on.

We actually agree more than we disagree. No baby in my minds is ever a "sin", and the thought of that isn't cool with me.

I've been flamed all over the board saying the issue was the fornicating, but people been telling me thats all good as shes keeping it

So, it's like their premise is - have sex like bunnies, get pregnant, as long as you keep it. If all our teens do that, we'll all be in shambles in 20 years.

[Dos Equis]

They don't.

I guess some like Palin prefer their kids pregnant, which is of course the more preferable option than getting a terminal disease like AIDS.

I'll take my kid using a condom, before I stand over her grave and bury her personally

Giving teenagers the pill and condoms hasn't exactly been a smashing success.     

Also, to think boys will consistently use condoms is unrealistic.  And stopping the spread of disease?  Would you be comfortable with your child having sex with someone who has herpes, so long as he used a condom?   

[Colossus_500]

There is more to the faith than simply "Thou shalt not."
Tom Minnery
Focus Action

The political Left seems determined to cast doubt on Sarah Palin as a strong vice presidential candidate, but in the process it may be learning something about the heart of biblical Christianity.

When it first became widely known that Gov. Palin’s daughter Bristol was pregnant out of wedlock, commentators on the Left – some with palpable excitement – began to wonder whether this would dampen the roar of enthusiasm with which social conservatives greeted Palin’s candidacy. After all, don’t evangelicals oppose the idea of sex apart from marriage?

But that hope on the Left is dying quickly, given the continuing support of Palin by Dr. James Dobson and other evangelical leaders. The fact is that Christianity means more than simply avoiding the wrong, because in this life none of us can accomplish that. It means repenting of the wrong and then making it right, thereby encouraging the wronged parties to forgive.

We don’t know the dynamics inside the Palin family, but it seems these principles are in play. The baby will be born rather than aborted quietly, and the young parents, at least at this point, intend to marry. Repentance seems to be embedded into this set of circumstances, and forgiveness from the family seems evident in the public statements that followed the news of the situation.

[Dos Equis]

There is more to the faith than simply "Thou shalt not."
Tom Minnery
Focus Action

The political Left seems determined to cast doubt on Sarah Palin as a strong vice presidential candidate, but in the process it may be learning something about the heart of biblical Christianity.

When it first became widely known that Gov. Palin’s daughter Bristol was pregnant out of wedlock, commentators on the Left – some with palpable excitement – began to wonder whether this would dampen the roar of enthusiasm with which social conservatives greeted Palin’s candidacy. After all, don’t evangelicals oppose the idea of sex apart from marriage?

But that hope on the Left is dying quickly, given the continuing support of Palin by Dr. James Dobson and other evangelical leaders. The fact is that Christianity means more than simply avoiding the wrong, because in this life none of us can accomplish that. It means repenting of the wrong and then making it right, thereby encouraging the wronged parties to forgive.

We don’t know the dynamics inside the Palin family, but it seems these principles are in play. The baby will be born rather than aborted quietly, and the young parents, at least at this point, intend to marry. Repentance seems to be embedded into this set of circumstances, and forgiveness from the family seems evident in the public statements that followed the news of the situation.

Good commentary.  This Palin selection and her family have liberals in an utter state of confusion. 

[CQ]

Giving teenagers the pill and condoms hasn't exactly been a smashing success.     

Also, to think boys will consistently use condoms is unrealistic.  And stopping the spread of disease?  Would you be comfortable with your child having sex with someone who has herpes, so long as he used a condom?   

Agree they are not 100%. Don't get me wrong, I don't engage in such things myself, and my feelings on these matters are like hers actually, but I am realistic. Palins plan for abstinence for her kids did not work, that's a fact. To wish wash around that is silly. Bush is into abstinence, hear me slamming him?

Fact remains, apart from the fact my kid is not the one who is a teen mom, I am not running for VP as I feel my positions are the best. I only push my positions on my kid [and you guys here ], so they aren't relevant to others.

Bottom line, if this pregnancy wasn't of interest media wouldn't cover it. I'm not in charge of it all, and feel bad for the girl [not the mom though]. A family values party, and abstience preaching mother with a pregnant teen is simply an oxymoron, not matter how anyone plays it.

[Dos Equis]

Agree they are not 100%. Don't get me wrong, I don't engage in such things myself, and my feelings on these matters are like hers actually, but I am realistic. Palins plan for abstinence for her kids did not work, that's a fact. To wish wash around that is silly. Bush is into abstinence, hear me slamming him?

Fact remains, apart from the fact my kid is not the one who is a teen mom, I am not running for VP as I feel my positions are the best. I only push my positions on my kid [and you guys here ], so they aren't relevant to others.

Bottom line, if this pregnancy wasn't of interest media wouldn't cover it. I'm not in charge of it all, and feel bad for the girl [not the mom though]. A family values party, and abstience preaching mother with a pregnant teen is simply an oxymoron, not matter how anyone plays it.

Palin's plans for all of her kids did not work?  We know one kid is pregnant.  How do you know what her other children have done?

I really have a different take on this whole "sex ed" thing.  I think we both agree that kids should not have sex.  If that's the case, then we should reinforce responsible behavior with our kids.  In my view, giving a kid condoms isn't being realistic; it's a copout.  It's surrender.  It sends a mixed message. 

I have no problem with Palin or any other parent talking about abstinence, regardless of what mistakes their kids make.  If you are sending the right message, that message doesn't change because a kid makes bad choices.  The truth is the truth.  I think the way Palin's family has handled these family crises (Down's Syndrome baby and teen pregnancy) sets a terrific example for other parents who may go through these tough times. 

Why do you say Palin is "preaching"?  Do you consider those who advocate giving condoms to kids as preachers too?  Are those folks trying to force their views on others? 

[240 is Back]

Ob brother...

Palin's oldest daughter steps out of the plane today, as big as a house for all the camereas.

She was pretty skinny just 5 days ago.

[CQ]

Palin's plans for all of her kids did not work?  We know one kid is pregnant.  How do you know what her other children have done?

I never said all her kids. The women has a pregnant teenager. Her plan did not work in her case obviously. My plan for my daughter to make billions and look after me also fell short

I really have a different take on this whole "sex ed" thing.  I think we both agree that kids should not have sex.  If that's the case, then we should reinforce responsible behavior with our kids.  In my view, giving a kid condoms isn't being realistic; it's a copout.  It's surrender.  It sends a mixed message. 

I've said the same thing. It's a fine line. Don't want to encourage sex. My position is teach morals yes, but if a kid is going to have sex [which stats show most are] at least them at least be responsible about it. Sex with protection is way better than sex with none, and AIDS at worst case.

It's an oxymoron. Palin didn't think her kid was old enough to have sex - but she is old enough to have a child, be responsible for another human being 24 hrs a day, get married, in theory financially sustain herself and a baby [not that she will, but many young girls would have to] maintain a household with all the duties....and have sex as well.

Yes, it's better to be celibate - but rather than the above, surely it would be better if the kid was having sex with protection, starting her college career and most of all happy. Either way she is having sex. I doubt she is thrilled right now to be international news.

I have no problem with Palin or any other parent talking about abstinence, regardless of what mistakes their kids make.  If you are sending the right message, that message doesn't change because a kid makes bad choices.  The truth is the truth.  I think the way Palin's family has handled these family crises (Down's Syndrome baby and teen pregnancy) sets a terrific example for other parents who may go through these tough times. 

Neither do I per se. No one is perfect. But there is a deep irony in someone talking abstinence while their teen is pregnant.

[boonasty]

I've said the same thing. It's a fine line. Don't want to encourage sex. My position is teach morals yes, but if a kid is going to have sex [which stats show most are] at least them at least be responsible about it. Sex with protection is way better than sex with none,



Yes, it's better to be celibate - but rather than the above, surely it would be better if the kid was having sex with protection,

i havent read the whole thread or followed the story as closely as i should but has it been established that those kids did not use protection?  what im saying is sometimes protection fails.

[Dos Equis]

I never said all her kids. The women has a pregnant teenager. Her plan did not work in her case obviously. My plan for my daughter to make billions and look after me also fell short

I've said the same thing. It's a fine line. Don't want to encourage sex. My position is teach morals yes, but if a kid is going to have sex [which stats show most are] at least them at least be responsible about it. Sex with protection is way better than sex with none, and AIDS at worst case.

It's an oxymoron. Palin didn't think her kid was old enough to have sex - but she is old enough to have a child, be responsible for another human being 24 hrs a day, get married, in theory financially sustain herself and a baby [not that she will, but many young girls would have to] maintain a household with all the duties....and have sex as well.

Yes, it's better to be celibate - but rather than the above, surely it would be better if the kid was having sex with protection, starting her college career and most of all happy. Either way she is having sex. I doubt she is thrilled right now to be international news.

Neither do I per se. No one is perfect. But there is a deep irony in someone talking abstinence while their teen is pregnant.

I interpreted this to mean all of her kids, but you've clarified:

Palins plan for abstinence for her kids did not work, that's a fact.

We are making quite a few assumptions.  Do we know whether the daughter made the decision to keep the baby?  I've read the daughter isn't being forced to get married.

I think we agree on a lot of this.  I just don't take the view that kids cannot control themselves.  And from a practical standpoint, condoms don't work because I don't believe people will consistently use them. 

But what about the preaching part?  Do you think someone who promotes condoms to kids is preaching?   

[w8tlftr]

Oh Puleaze! Your kid is 7 yrs old.  I wouldn't want to see a 7yr old with a condom either.
Cripes... that's one mean water balloon waiting to happen don'tcha think? 

Big difference between a 7 yr od getting a condm than a 17 yr. old.  HUGE difference!

My daughter is 9 but will be in Middle School next year where it's taught. My son is 14 and started HS.

Then opt your kid OUT of sex education then, ...but the fact remains that kids are going to do what they're going to do. And not ALL parents educate their children, and if educating them means they do what they're going to do in a safer, more responsible way, ...then more power to them.

Don't confuse teaching abstinence with a pragmatic solution to the challenge of teen pregnancy

I probably will. You're missing the point here, Judi. Both sides want the government involved in this process. I say piss off to BOTH sides.

Only in the sense that most Democrats don't get worked into a frenzy frothing at the mouth over these things.
it's the evangelical right that get's rabid about a teen fornicating, and getting pregnant. Quite the hypocritical about face for them.

You're right. It is hypocritical of the Christian right to preach abstinence and engage in pre-marital sex.

However, I call bullshit on the left. This isn't about a 17 year old girl getting pregnant. It's about the kid not getting an abortion and marrying the kid that got her pregnant because her mother's a Christian. Let's call this what it really is shall we? Besides, do you know for fact that the daughter ever shares the same political and religious beliefs as her parents? I know at that age I sure as frak didn't agree with mine.

Ya, like the 100 years of war some candidates have in store for everyone, ...or their non-existent, impractical plans for solving our dependence on imported oil, or their myopic policies that worsen the debt, cripple the economy, and fertilize terrorrists. But they can't get elected discussing these trainwrecks, ...so they name an even bigger trainwreck as a running mate.

Uh-huh. Because every major war our country has engaged in was done with a Republican at the helm. The left has also done a spectacular job in reducing our dependency on foreign oil and our migration to alternative energy. They've also done a great job with NAFTA, the Federal Reserve, social security, education, and reigning in the bloated government spending.

Go ahead and keep thinking that the Democrats are soooooooooo much more different than their Republican friends.

[CQ]

W8 - please clarify, your kid is 9, they start stuff at age 10? I'm not familar with the system, please explain if you can. That seems kinda uncool.

[Straw Man]

Since when do teenagers have a "right" to condoms? 

don't teenagers have a right to health care?

[Dos Equis]

don't teenagers have a right to health care?

If my "health care" you mean guaranteed medical treatment, the answer is "no," unless you show up at an emergency room (anti-patient dumping laws), have insurance, or some other kind of coverage. 

Condoms are not healthcare. 

[w8tlftr]

W8 - please clarify, your kid is 9, they start stuff at age 10? I'm not familar with the system, please explain if you can. That seems kinda uncool.

My son's Middle School covered "sex" Ed.

My daughter turns 10 next month. She starts Middle School next year.

I'm putting her into a private school for Middle School.

And no, it's not cool at all. I'm the parent - not the state.

[24KT]

My position on the matter is simple: A person has the right to know how their body functions. PERIOD!

If you're old enough to have a child, ...you're old enough to know how to prevent yourself from having a child

It's also NOT just about preventing unwanted pregnancies as well.

I believe 'sex education' should be all encompassing, including discussion on the emotional & psychological aspects of engaging in sex. I think an 'abstinence only' type of education is severely lacking, and places kids at a tremendous disadvantage. it's as stupid, and as ineffective as Just say NO!"

There are plenty of good sex educators out there who teach abstinence in an effective way, if that's what you want your kids learning, ...but it's also encompassing. One good example is Pam Stenzel "Sex has a price tag"

[w8tlftr]

My position on the matter is simple: A person has the right to know how their body functions. PERIOD!

If you're old enough to have a child, ...you're old enough to know how to prevent yourself from having a child

Judi, I never said they shouldn't educate students on the human reproductive system. We're talking apples and oranges here.

Sex education is a personal thing. It is the responsibility of the parent to educate their child on such matters. It is not the responsibility of the state.

See, here's where you and I part ways. I believe in individual liberty and the personal responsibility. It is MY responsibility to be a parent and teach my son and daughter how to be responsible adults that contribute to society. I assumed that responsibility (whether I wanted it or not) when my wife became pregnant. I do not think it is the role of government to teach my son or daughter about birth control nor is it their role to teach abstinence.

[24KT]

My daughter is 9 but will be in Middle School next year where it's taught. My son is 14 and started HS.

How could your daughter be 9? Two years ago when you told me her age, ...she was only 7.  

I probably will. You're missing the point here, Judi. Both sides want the government involved in this process. I say piss off to BOTH sides.

I can't disagree with you there, ...but the fact of the matter is, we all want the government involved in some aspect of our lives. We want the government to provide the framework from which our economy can thrive, to provide the security with which we may live peaceful lives. By that token, while you or I may assume our parental responsibilities as far as our offspring may be concerned, ...there are neglectful parents out there. And where neglectful parents abound, who can't, don't, won't teach their kids right from wrong, ...I want there to be someone teaching them right from wrong.

You're right. It is hypocritical of the Christian right to preach abstinence and engage in pre-marital sex.

Finally you're seeing the light. It's like Craig. I don't think anybody cares that the man was in the closet, ...it was just the hypocrisy of it all, ...same with governor Spitzer.

However, I call bullshit on the left. This isn't about a 17 year old girl getting pregnant. It's about the kid not getting an abortion and marrying the kid that got her pregnant because her mother's a Christian. Let's call this what it really is shall we? Besides, do you know for fact that the daughter ever shares the same political and religious beliefs as her parents? I know at that age I sure as frak didn't agree with mine.

I don't think anybody is angry that Bristol didn't have an abortion, (...except possibly Levi who is quoted as saying he doesn't want kids) at least certainly not the left, ...pro-choice supporters are all for a woman or child deciding to keep her child. That's what the idea of choice is all about. What are up in arms about is the controversy surrounding this woman, and the lack of foresight seemingly displayed by McCain in his choice of running mate. He looks like a desperate man grasping at straws, making a politically strategic move in what he perceives to be his short term best interests, and putting the best interests of the country second.

Let me ask you a few questions w8lftr, ...you can answer on the boards, in PM, or even choose not to answer.
I know as a former Navy man yourself, you might find this question a little too sensitive for public input, ...but, ...in your heart of hearts, ...do you truly believe that McCain was thinking of America first when he made his VP selection, ...or himself?  ...and do you think he vetted this woman properly?

Uh-huh. Because every major war our country has engaged in was done with a Republican at the helm. The left has also done a spectacular job in reducing our dependency on foreign oil and our migration to alternative energy. They've also done a great job with NAFTA, the Federal Reserve, social security, education, and reigning in the bloated government spending.

Go ahead and keep thinking that the Democrats are soooooooooo much more different than their Republican friends.

There's no doubt US energy policy is outdated, and outmoded, and has been neglected for the past 30 yrs.
That's why so many have been energized in this election, ...because they want CHANGE!
McCain hardly represents that.

[CQ]

My son's Middle School covered "sex" Ed.

My daughter turns 10 next month. She starts Middle School next year.

I'm putting her into a private school for Middle School.

And no, it's not cool at all. I'm the parent - not the state.

Thanks 4 the reply, and yes I totally see your point. Good luck with that.

[Straw Man]

If my "health care" you mean guaranteed medical treatment, the answer is "no," unless you show up at an emergency room (anti-patient dumping laws), have insurance, or some other kind of coverage. 

Condoms are not healthcare.  

please jebus ....please give me patience......

condoms are a prophylactic (i.e they prevent harm which is also the same thing as preserving/defending health) which is why condoms are HEALTH CARE

extra bonus - they also greatly reduce the possibility of unplanned pregnancy

   

[24KT]

please jebus ....please give me patience......

condoms are a prophylactic (i.e they prevent harm which is also the same thing as preserving/defending health) which is why condoms are HEALTH CARE

extra bonus - they also greatly reduce the possibility of unplanned pregnancy

   

And they make darned fine water balloons too. 

[Dos Equis]

Judi, I never said they shouldn't educate students on the human reproductive system. We're talking apples and oranges here.

Sex education is a personal thing. It is the responsibility of the parent to educate their child on such matters. It is not the responsibility of the state.

See, here's where you and I part ways. I believe in individual liberty and the personal responsibility. It is MY responsibility to be a parent and teach my son and daughter how to be responsible adults that contribute to society. I assumed that responsibility (whether I wanted it or not) when my wife became pregnant. I do not think it is the role of government to teach my son or daughter about birth control nor is it their role to teach abstinence.

Yep.  I agree.