Author Topic: Adonis Principles  (Read 11861 times)

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2008, 03:59:27 AM »
I'm not concerned with him listening, but the blatant lies and deceit are worth debunking.

I'm not sure what wavelengths profession is, but I assume from what I thought of his intellect he wouldn't subscribe to these fallacies.

Same business as you my friend...
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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #51 on: September 03, 2008, 04:02:23 AM »
If a calorie is a calorie, try and just eat butter all day and see what comes from that.

Or you could drink coca cola instead.

Total utter BS.

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #52 on: September 03, 2008, 04:08:49 AM »
My main objection, particularly in the past, is that a bunch of stupid lurker kids are going to eat cookies for breakfast, McDonalds for lunch, and ice cream for dinner, and actually believe it's good for them.  Junk food is regarded as such for good reason.  It's rich in shit that's bad for you (sugar, bad fats, chemicals, etc) and short on things that are good for you (good fats, micronutrients, antioxidants, etc).

On that basis, I feel it was irresponsible of TA to push his junk food diet as aggressively as he did, and did he ever.  Those who were around know what I mean.  At least he's decided to push the nutritional side of things this time around, although he may find it hard to prove the nutritional superiority of highly processed foods over what most regard as a healthy diet.

Nordic Superman

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #53 on: September 03, 2008, 04:09:12 AM »
Same business as you my friend...

Seriously? Poor bastard :'(
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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #54 on: September 03, 2008, 04:41:36 AM »

In Australia, TA would be known as a "Dumb Bastard"

There are too many variables involved to say that is the perfect diet.

People react differently to diets and different foods.

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2008, 04:51:30 AM »
In Australia, TA would be known as a "Dumb Bastard"

There are too many variables involved to say that is the perfect diet.

People react differently to diets and different foods.

He is not selling the advice(yet), just giving it away for free on a message board. Take it, leave it, but don't complain about it you filthy cokksukker.
E

travisma

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #56 on: September 03, 2008, 05:02:10 AM »
Thats right it is a message board....So freedom of speech is still allowed. If he is willing to talk about it then he is willing to hear people complain about it.

You cant expect people to really believe the crap he is saying.... It isnt as easy as he is preaching..

danielson

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2008, 05:04:24 AM »
Thats right it is a message board....So freedom of speech is still allowed. If he is willing to talk about it then he is willing to hear people complain about it.

You cant expect people to really believe the crap he is saying.... It isnt as easy as he is preaching..


Wavelength, Migizi(The Dancing Machine), Tweeter and Leafy Bug have all used his diet to great success. You are new here, so you should just stfu.
E

travisma

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #58 on: September 03, 2008, 05:06:26 AM »

Hahaha..... Im new am I??? Good one.. Ive been coming to this board for years... Get a life and realise that everything he has written is utter crap...

If it is so true, he should write a book, have it published in a medical journal and make a few million fixing the OBESE fat people in the USA!!!

mazrim

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #59 on: September 03, 2008, 05:07:33 AM »
That is an ignorant example.

I will give you a real one.


Two twins eat 1 gram per lb of body weight protein and each are on a caloric deficit ingesting 2200 total calories.

Twin one meets the Protein Requirement and eats the rest of his calories with any food he likes be it chocolate, Fast Food, candy or whatever.

Twin two meets his Protien Requirement and eats the rest of his calories with boiled chicken, oatmeal and rice.

They both eat the same calories.

The both will look EXACTLY the same.

There is your example.
Timberwolf agrees with that (as do I).

BroadStreetBruiser

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #60 on: September 03, 2008, 05:09:22 AM »

You cant expect people to really believe the crap he is saying.... It isnt as easy as he is preaching..



No diet is easy. it's about consistancy and dedication to an end goal. Easy is the diet, not the will to actually stick to it moron.

wavelength

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #61 on: September 03, 2008, 05:09:31 AM »
Hahaha..... Im new am I??? Good one.. Ive been coming to this board for years... Get a life and realise that everything he has written is utter crap...

If it is so true, he should write a book, have it published in a medical journal and make a few million fixing the OBESE fat people in the USA!!!

Well one principle is to loose 1-3lb a week when dieting. Maybe obese people could stick to a diet better if they would still be allowed to eat what they like in smaller quantities.

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #62 on: September 03, 2008, 05:10:44 AM »
No diet is easy. it's about consistancy and dedication to an end goal. Easy is the diet, not the will to actually stick to it moron.

I agree. But I like to make it as easy and enjoyable as possible.

travisma

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #63 on: September 03, 2008, 05:13:39 AM »
Of course diets will make an impact with people but how bout considering how well the persons Thyroid is actually working, this is what controls the rate of metabolism within people. THIS is why some Obese people never succeed in losing weight, simply because there is a direct problem related to their Thyroid Gland.

So there are many more factors involved other than what TA promotes as the answer.

Keep it real.... Not TA bullshit

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #64 on: September 03, 2008, 05:27:12 AM »
I will TRACK ANYONE`S Diet for them and compare it to mine daily if you like!

ANYONE!

I am Positive mine will always trump for health and all requirements!

cool, ill take you up on that offer.
What would you suggest?

Meal 1:
Bowl of oatmeal, 3 egg whites, 1 egg yolks with a handful of Almonds.
Skinless Chicken Breast with ketchup.

Around 40 grams of protein

Workout

Meal 2:
Protein Shake, a bannana.... 45 grams Protein

Meal 3 Postworkout:
Stir Fry with Chicken, 40 grams

Meal 4:
Protein Shake.....45 grams protein

Meal 5:
Stir Fry with Chicken, a handful of almonds....30-40 grams protein

I also work 3 hours a night so thats really my cardio.



Trying to get down to 8%
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1460231&d=1217778799

The True Adonis

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #65 on: September 03, 2008, 09:08:24 AM »
I have said for years A CALORIE IS A CALORIE, but a MACRONUTRIENT is NOT a MACRONUTRIENT!

With that said, the Ratio of MacroNutrients DO NOT MATTER as long as the Protein requirement is met.





The True Adonis

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #66 on: September 03, 2008, 09:10:05 AM »
cool, ill take you up on that offer.
What would you suggest?

Meal 1:
Bowl of oatmeal, 3 egg whites, 1 egg yolks with a handful of Almonds.
Skinless Chicken Breast with ketchup.

Around 40 grams of protein

Workout

Meal 2:
Protein Shake, a bannana.... 45 grams Protein

Meal 3 Postworkout:
Stir Fry with Chicken, 40 grams

Meal 4:
Protein Shake.....45 grams protein

Meal 5:
Stir Fry with Chicken, a handful of almonds....30-40 grams protein

I also work 3 hours a night so thats really my cardio.



Trying to get down to 8%
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1460231&d=1217778799

I will try and get your diet up to speed a bit. What are your favorite foods?  What do you absolutely enjoy eating? It can be anything.  I will put together a sample and post it here. 

The True Adonis

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #67 on: September 03, 2008, 09:13:33 AM »
Unless you just have really good genetics or take steroids the only real way to accomplish what you want is to take a 2 steps forward one step back approach. Building a significant amount of muscle without adding some fat is about impossible for most people.
Contrary to popular belief, providing your basic protein requirements are met and you're training, the "composition", "timing", and "frequency" of your diet are not as important as many think and are not as important as your total caloric intake. Let's run through a few myths right quick.


- Eating once a day is worse then eating 6 times a day but there's little if any difference between eating 3 times a day and 6 times a day.

-Whole food meals restore muscle glycogen just as well as postworkout carb drinks. If you have days between intense workouts for a certain bodypart it's not like your body needs to be in a hurry up mode to restore a couple of hundred calories worth of glycogen (energy) you burn up in a workout.

- The only major benefit of food combining is appetite control. How you combine your meals is of little relevance at the end of the day.

- Protein is protein. The majority of differences in quality (and price) can be made up for by quantity. Give me the guy getting his protein from steak and eggs everyday compared to the guy spending $1500 per month on fancy micro-ozone-filtered powders and I'll take the first guy every time.

- Carbs and fats are both sources of energy. Excess energy above and beyond your daily energy needs from either source leads to fat gain. Lack of energy from either source below your daily energy needs leads to fat loss. Whether you eat more calories from fat or more calories from carbohydrate, or less energy from fat or less energy from carbohydrate, energy is energy.

- The most important factor as to whether you gain or lose weight is your daily caloric intake.


- The amount of fat you gain on a bulking diet is primarily determined by your total caloric intake and your genetics.

- The amount of muscle you lose on a fat loss diet is primarily determined by the extent of your caloric deficit and your genetics.


- The body does not suddenly go "catabolic" when no protein is consumed over a few hour time span.


How Important is the Complicated Stuff?For the most part, whatever complicated nutrition scheme you're on is not all that relevant as to what your body does with excess calories in regard to muscle gain as long as you're eating enough protein. Activity itself along with the total calories that you eat and the endocrine signals your body sends (genetics) are much more important. In order of importance the major factors would be:
1. Endocrine signaling (genetics, hormones, etc.)
2. Dietary totals
3. activity
4. Dietary composition
5. Meal timing.
A Scenario

If we take 2 twins and they both train the same and eat 150 grams of protein and 3000 calories per day but one eats 6 meals per day and 500 grams of carbs consisting of potatoes and brown rice etc., while the other eats 3 meals per day and 500 grams of carbs consisting of cereal and bread, most would be very surprised of how little difference there would be as far as the amount of muscle and fat they gained.The main difference between a diet consisting of whole foods and a diet consisting of processed crap is, it's a lot easier to consume more calories on the processed diet and, since excess calories are what make people fat, it's a lot easier to consume more calories and get fat on a junk food diet. Additionally, many people eating the processed diet are not getting the right amount of protien.

Minimums
What are the minimums? Well, there is no minimum level of carbohydrate, - Carbs are just energy. If you wanted to get nitpicky you could say that 100 grams of carbohydrate would be required per day to maintain enough blood glucose to think straight, but that's not necessarily essential.
For protein the minimum generally runs anywhere from 1 gram per lb of bodyweight to 1.5 grams per lb of bodyweight, depending on the total caloric intake and activity. The less calories consumed and the greater the activity, the more protien you need.
For fat intake, fat is also just an energy source, the only fats required are essential fatty acids. You can get those by eating cold-water fish, or supplementing with 6-10 grams of fish oil per day. More essential fatty acids aren't going to do anything anabolically to magically transform your body.
Setting up a Diet Based On Minimums
Say I weigh 200 lbs and I want to set up a diet. Based on the minimums I'd be consuming:
200 grams of protein (1 gram per pound of bodyweight for 800 calories)
100 grams of carbohydrate (100 grams to fuel the brain 400 calories)
6 grams of fish oil caps (60 calories).
That means my baseline diet would be 1260 calories. I would obviously never go under that. From that point I would add additional carbs and fats to get my energy status where I wanted it.

Total Calories
Total calories refers to how much energy you need to take in to meet your daily energy demands. Take in less calories (energy) then you need and your body will either:
A: Burn fat
B: Burn muscle
Take in more calories then you need and your body will either:
A: Store the excess as fat
B: Use the excess to promote muscle growth.
Partitioning
You create the "stimulus" for muscle growth through training. You provide the raw material (food), for the growth. Once you've done those 2 things the rest is up to your body. How many calories can you direct into the "muscular" compartment and how many calories are directed into your "fat' compartment? We refer to that as nutrient partitioning.
Some people will gain 1 lb of fat for every pound of muscle they put on. Others will gain 3 lbs of fat per every 1 pound of muscle. Others will gain 4 lbs of muscle per every 1 pound of fat. The amount of muscle building in relation to fat building that goes on once you've provided excess raw materials is primarily determined by your genetics and how fast you attempt to gain weight (how much above maintenance you eat). If you don't believe me about the gentics all you have to do is hang around a group of division I athletes for a while - see who has the best physiques then watch those people eat.

Genetics
Genetic expression is 1/2 DNA and 1/2 environment. It can be affected by many things including activity, psychology, nutrition, and drugs but for the most part genetics are genetics. Obviously, there are major differences between different individuals but the ability to cause physique alterations can even change in a given individual over time.
The main thing that changes genetic expression in a given individual more then anything else is not what type of diet they're on, how they combine their meals, or what supplements they take, it is their activity and their age. Activity is obvious and 100% controllable but the only thing that can come close to over-riding the effect of aging is drugs. Go look at the diet and physique of a 70 + yr old bodybuilder like Jack Lalanne and compare it to the diet and physique of a 22 yr old Jack Lalanne. At 22 Jack Lalanne could probably gain 3 lbs of muscle per every 1 pound of fat. At 70+ he probably gains 4 lbs of fat per every 1 lb of muscle. He's still Jack Lalanne, but the difference in response to his environment (training and nutrition) is night and day. Now, put Jack Lalanne on a cycle of testosterone and he could probably come fairly close to duplicating what he could do in his 30's or 40's.

What about fat loss?
Ok. Now, when it comes to losing weight, the example I gave above with the twins also holds true. Assuming one consumes the minimum levels of protein, the amount of fat vs muscle they lose is mainly determined by the caloric deficit and genetics, not nutrient timing or whether they consume eggs, chicken, low carb, high carb, or the $100 protein powder.
Therefore, if we again have two twins wanting to lose weight and they each weigh 150 lbs and require 3000 calories per day, - and we have one eat a 2500 calorie diet with 150 grams of protein and the rest made up of expensive supplements, specifically timed nutrients, and only "health" foods, while the other twin eats 2500 calories per day consisting of 150 grams of protein along with peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and crackers, once again there will be very little difference in the effectiveness of either plan since the primary determining factors are the genetics and daily totals, which are the same.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Continued...

Exceptions
Now, if we take a person who consumes only 30 grams of protein per day and the rest sugar and compare that to a person consuming 150 grams of protein per day and a wholesome diet, then yes, we will see some differences because one guy is only consuming 30 grams of protein thus the minimums aren't being met.
If we take one person dieting on a 500 calorie deficit compared to another person dieting on a 1500 calorie deficit then yes, one will lose a lot more muscle then the other because one is trying to lose a pound per week while ther other is trying to lose about 5 lbs per week.
If we take one person trying to gain muscle on a 500 calorie excess while another person is trying to gain muscle on a 2000 calorie excess, obviously the 2nd person is likely going to gain a lot more fat in the process.
If person A does an Atkins diet while person B does a south beach diet while person C does a Pritikin diet they can all get the same results. The primary difference between them is that some diets make it easier to consume lower calories. A low carbohydrate diet, for example, tends to blunt appetite. A high carbohydrate diet tends to stimulate appetite for a lot of people.

The Real Anabolic Secret
Ok, now having said all that and getting back to your original question, if you're gonna build muscle without getting fat you can either manipulate your endocrine signaling or you can manipulate your dietary totals.
The first consists of taking steroids. The primary benefit of steroids isn't that they allow you to get big it's that they improve nutrient partitioning and allow a person to get big without turning into a fat piece of crap in the process.
Anybody can get big. If you wanna get 250 lbs of muscle all you need to do is train a few times per week with basic movements and eat yourself up to about 400 lbs of scale weight. You'll be fat as heck and look like crap but it's not that hard. Hell, sumo wrestlers carry more muscle then either bodybuilders or powerlifters and they don't even train much less take steroids.

Manipulating Diet
Other options including manipulating your dietary totals. This might consist of:
1. Trying to gain weight very slowly.
Your body can only build muscle so fast. The faster you try to gain the more fat you're probably gonna gain. Eat maybe an extra 100 calories per day and you might gain a lb of muscle every couple of months. Honestly, most people who attempt to do this usually aren't able to build any muscle at all.
2. Take a 2 steps forward one step back approach
With this approach you eat and train to gain weight and muscle for a certain number of days and then eat and train to lose fat for a certain number of days. The weight gain phase obviously consists of high calories and the low calorie phase consists of low calories. This is the approach I prefer and is the only way short of drugs once can compete with superior genetics and aging.
The number of weight gain days and the number of weight loss days depends onyour metabolism and genetics. The basic tenet is that you put on muscle and accept some fat gain for a certain period of time and then you take off the fat that you gained. At the end of each phase you should be a bit heavier and just as lean.
Some people do well with a 5 day high calorie phase and a 2 day low calorie phase. Others do well with a 7 day high calorie phase and a 2 day low calorie phase. Others do well with a 13 day high calorie phase a 3 day low calorie phase. Others do well with a 2-3 week high calories phase and a 1-2 weeks low calorie phase. How you set it up doesn't really matter.

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #68 on: September 03, 2008, 09:39:24 AM »
Contrary to what many others will say, great stuff there adonis.
What you wrote in the last paragraph resembles scott abel's cycle diet and I can attest to it being the most effective way to gain weight (gain muscle weight that is)

mazrim

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #69 on: September 03, 2008, 10:07:55 AM »
So do you think there is a certain amount of carbs (threshold per se) you can take in at one sitting?

Nordic Superman

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #70 on: September 03, 2008, 10:46:22 AM »
I have said for years A CALORIE IS A CALORIE, but a MACRONUTRIENT is NOT a MACRONUTRIENT!

With that said, the Ratio of MacroNutrients DO NOT MATTER as long as the Protein requirement is met.

Is your assertion that a calorie is a calorie is the physical science sense that they 1 calorie of x contains the same energy as 1 calorie of y?

If so, why EVER make that assertion? Are you next going to make the assertion that one proton in a carbohydrate molecule is identical to a proton molecule in a rock?
الاسلام هو شيطانية

The True Adonis

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #71 on: September 03, 2008, 11:27:11 AM »
The Skinny on the Glycemic Index
Although developed to help people with diabetes manage their food intake, the glycemic index has taken on new meaning as a weight loss strategy. In fact, several diet books tout the glycemic index as a foolproof way of identifying foods that raise blood sugar and insulin levels and therefore, can lead to weight gain.

But despite the hype, experts in nutrition and public health see very little practical use for the glycemic index and even the American Diabetes Association does not recommend this system for the prevention or treatment of diabetes. This is because of the many factors that affect the digestion of carbohydrates in the body. In fact, there is no clear evidence that avoiding foods high on the index is even beneficial.
The following describes what the glycemic index is and why the public health community does not recommend it in designing an eating plan.

The Glycemic Index and Its Limitations
Originally developed in 1981 as a laboratory tool to measure the rate at which carbohydrates are metabolized, the glycemic index is now being used by some as a measure of the degree to which a specific food raises a person's blood sugar, which in turn affects insulin levels in the body. GI is calculated by measuring the effect of 50 grams of carbohydrates from various foods against a "standard" response from 50 grams of glucose. The higher the number, the greater the food's effect on blood sugar.

The reason for all the interest in the index is because it supports the theory of "net carbs," which has facilitated the creation of the low-carb food industry and the launch of thousands of "low-carb" products. The theory is that high-GI foods cause a spike in the glucose level that prompts the body to release a flood of insulin. In turn, insulin drops blood sugar levels so that the person feels hungry again quickly and eats more. In contrast, low-GI foods are said to be digested more slowly and to release glucose more gradually.

But while many popular diet books make it sound as if the glycemic index is an accepted theory, in truth, there are very real problems with this system. First and foremost is the fact that the glycemic index deals with single foods eaten alone, not meals where foods are combined.

At the same time, this system does not take into account the serving size of commonly eaten foods or the fact that there can be major differences even when comparing foods of the same type, such as a relatively green banana compared with a ripe one. Another major limitation of the glycemic index is that it doesn't take into account the many factors that can alter the digestion and absorption of carbohydrates. These factors include the amount of fiber, fat and protein in the food, how refined the ingredients are, whether the food was cooked, and what other foods are eaten at the same time.
Along with these limitations, there is no clear-cut evidence in the scientific literature that associates low-GI foods as either promoting satiety or reducing hunger. Moreover, nutritionists state that eliminating all foods that are high on the glycemic index is unhealthy, since many of these carbohydrates are rich in vitamins and minerals, phytochemicals, antioxidants and dietary fiber that have been associated with a lower risk for certain cancers, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and stroke, among other medical conditions. What is even more troubling is that many foods that have a low GI score, such as chocolate bars, are known to be high in fat and calories, while foods such as carrots with a high GI score are not.

The Implications for People with Diabetes
Because the glycemic index was developed to measure how fast blood sugar rises after a person eats foods containing carbohydrates, it is important to note that the premier organization focusing on the prevention and treatment of diabetes -- the American Diabetes Association -- does not recommend the use of this system. In its January 2002 nutrition recommendations, ADA stated that the available studies where glycemic index was controlled "do not provide convincing evidence of a benefit."1 In addition, ADA's statement said that the research examining the index is very limited and involves only a small number of study groups. Therefore, ADA concluded, "the data reveal no clear trend in outcome benefits." Rather, the ADA along with all the leading nutrition and public health groups recommend that for optimal health as well as weight loss, people should consume a diet that includes a variety of carbohydrate-containing foods, and especially fruits, vegetables, whole grains and low-fat dairy products. Moreover, nutrition authorities are unanimous in stating that for weight loss, calories count, not the glycemic index. Although it may sound old-fashioned, the simple fact is that the key to successful weight loss is a combination of a reduced-calorie diet and increased physical activity -- nothing more.


    *  Alliance for Aging Research
    * American Association of Diabetes Educators
    * American Council on Science and Health
    * American Institute for Cancer Research
    * American Obesity Association
    * Harvard Medical School
    * MedStar Research Institute
    * National Consumers League
    * National Women's Health Resource Center
    * Nutritional Sciences Program at the University of Washington
    * Pennington Biomedical Research Center
    * Shape Up America!
    * Society for Women's Health Research
    * University of California at Davis Department of Nutrition
    * UCLA Center for Human Nutrition
    * Yale-Griffin Prevention Research Center

 

shiftedShapes

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #72 on: September 03, 2008, 12:42:13 PM »
Well one principle is to loose 1-3lb a week when dieting. Maybe obese people could stick to a diet better if they would still be allowed to eat what they like in smaller quantities.

The obese are addicted to the sedative effect produced by overeating.  For the most part they eat indescriminately, so unfortunately, I think you are wrong.

The True Adonis

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #73 on: September 03, 2008, 12:44:34 PM »
The obese are addicted to the sedative effect produced by overeating.  For the most part they eat indescriminately, so unfortunately, I think you are wrong.
I don`t agree.  Obese people can be educated just a bit.  The problems usually stem from complete restriction and then rediscovery of a certain food or just plain ignorance of labeling foods as good and bad.

wavelength

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Re: Adonis Principles
« Reply #74 on: September 03, 2008, 12:57:12 PM »
The obese are addicted to the sedative effect produced by overeating.  For the most part they eat indescriminately, so unfortunately, I think you are wrong.

They wouldn't be allowed to overeat on a fish and rice diet either. I don't know if there are too many people who are obese on boiled fish and rice. Most of them are probably addicted to fat and sugar. I'm not an expert on obesety but I would think that getting them on a diet, where they could still have as much as possible of the foods they like, would make it easier.