The Adonis Diet Principles, Open-Source

[BroadStreetBruiser]

Exactly!

Where is the "TA principle" in that?

It's like i write "Objects fall down to the floor" and call that the "donkeykong principles".

Self Promotion is key.

[DK II]

what kind of Ilegal business are you into, Mr Kong

Just some boring production plant visits and some tourist spots.

Viel Spass...

Danke!! Ich meld mich bei dir, wenn ich wieder da bin. Mach keinen Scheiss, Junge!

Self Promotion is key.

How about you quit kissing Adonis' ass for a minute?

[wavelength]

No.

M1) ratio of macro nutrients other than defined by P1 and P2,  RDA is not sufficient for lifters
M2) abandonment of alcohol,  has a huuuuuge influence on training performance and general health. A glass wine or so is fine, but binsch drinking will kill you off
M3) intake of "supplements",   BUllshit. Some BCAA and creatine will improve your performance a lot. Also some whey after WO is better than milk or food
M4) proper spacing of meals during the day, define 'proper'. i agree though that meal timing isn't that important
M5) cardio training.  Not necessary depending on the type of lifting. If you train HIT, you won't shed a lot of fat probably, so getting lean will take a loooooooong time without cardio.

M1: Is this from your own experience? How exactly did you determine that?
M2: What would you say is the critical level? Being an alcoholic won't help of course.
M3: Have you tried with and without them (still adhering to the principles)? I have.
M4: check.
M5: The rate of weight loss is defined in P3. If it takes too long (regardless of lifting type), you are not following P3.

[wavelength]

If you expend more calories than you take in, you will lose weight. It sounds crazy but give it try, you will see that it works.

I was obviously talking about M1-M5. We have already agreed on P1-P4.

[wavelength]

Wienerschnitzel, I have to say that for me, all your myths are truths, unfortunately...

Have you actually tried to adhere to all principles P1-P4 and still made worse progress by eliminating any of M1-M5? I seriously cannot believe that. Can you give me a concrete example?

[wavelength]

i can dig up 1000 studies that say whey outperforms milk pwo.

As I said, this thread is not supposed to be about scientific studies. You will always find studies that support one opinion or the other. Nutrition science is not (yet) a very exact science. There are just too many interwoven factors which can be disagreed upon.

So I would appreciate reports from personal experience.

[shiftedShapes]

100g of protein per day should be more than enough, unless you are 7'0" 275lbs (if you are that heavy at a shorter height lose weight, you are fat)

[QuakerOats]

100g of protein per day should be more than enough, unless you are 7'0" 275lbs (if you are that heavy at a shorter height lose weight, you are fat)

yes this guy is fat at 5'11" 275.

[QuakerOats]

yes that was exactly what he meant, idiot.

you think he's fat there?

[QuakerOats]

Do you think his comment was for ronnie coleman? Or any other pro?

he said that unless you're 7'0" 275 is too fat, he didn't specify so i assumed he meant everyone, no need to call names Captain Skinny/Fat.

[QuakerOats]

calm down husky hunk

hahahhaa, i'm calm as can be, you're the one hurling insults.

[Deicide]

Have you actually tried to adhere to all principles P1-P4 and still made worse progress by eliminating any of M1-M5? I seriously cannot believe that. Can you give me a concrete example?

Will report experience when feeling less post blasted/stoned/bedridden...

[shiftedShapes]

yes this guy is fat at 5'11" 275.

I was talking about naturals.

[wavelength]

100g of protein per day should be more than enough, unless you are 7'0" 275lbs (if you are that heavy at a shorter height lose weight, you are fat)

I would tend to agree with that, my original proposal was 0.5g/lb. Since I easily take in 1g/lb on the current diet, and TA also claimes that he thinks that's what's needed (for hard training), I changed the rule to 1g/lb. This way, individual variations and different training methods should easily be accomodated.

I know that when I am below 0.5g/lb (and I also tried that), strength and muscle mass preservation suffers.

[tbombz]

100g of protein per day should be more than enough, unless you are 7'0" 275lbs (if you are that heavy at a shorter height lose weight, you are fat)

Where are you getting this information ?

[shiftedShapes]

I would tend to agree with that, my original proposal was 0.5g/lb. Since I easily take in 1g/lb on the current diet, and TA also claimes that he thinks that's what's needed (for hard training), I changed the rule to 1g/lb. This way, individual variations and different training methods should easily be accomodated.

I know that when I am below 0.5g/lb (and I also tried that), strength and muscle mass preservation suffers.

fair enough, although there is a big differnce between .5 and 1, and if it is the factor that is making it difficult to stick to a caloric limit I think that it is better to sacrifice protein intake (up to about .5g/lb which comes pretty close to approximating USDA guidelines) then to go over your caloric limit.

[wavelength]

fair enough, although there is a big differnce between .5 and 1, and if it is the factor that is making it difficult to stick to a caloric limit I think that it is better to sacrifice protein intake (up to about .5g/lb which comes pretty close to approximating USDA guidelines) then to go over your caloric limit.

Maybe true. But since I wanted to make this thread about experience only, I took the value I'm currently using. I know that below 0.5 is too low for me and above 1lb is (probably more than) enough. And I don't have any problems to stick to this limit with my current diet. Maybe in my next diet, I will try to aim for 0.6, to see if it is really still enough.

What's your diet like?

[mazrim]

I shoot for about .75 grams per lb.
What is considered "hard training"?

[shiftedShapes]

Maybe true. But since I wanted to make this thread about experience only, I took the value I'm currently using. I know that below 0.5 is too low for me and above 1lb is (probably more than) enough. And I don't have any problems to stick to this limit with my current diet. Maybe in my next diet, I will try to aim for 0.6, to see if it is really still enough.

What's your diet like?

I think it's probably pretty similar to yours.  I eat a lot of fiber because it helps keep me satisfied (from fiber 1 yougurt, honey oat flakes, blue berries, and low calorie ice-cream's), a lot of fish, deserts sometimes, pork and and chicken pretty often, beef occasionally, a slice of pizza for lunch a lot of the time.  I would guess that I don't eat enough vegetables.  I'm not regimented though so I can't tell you exactly.  My weight fluctuates between 155 and 150 at 5'8".  I'd like to think my BF is low, but it's hard to really know for sure.

[wavelength]

I think it's probably pretty similar to yours.  I eat a lot of fiber because it helps keep me satisfied (from fiber 1 yougurt, honey oat flakes, blue berries, and low calorie ice-cream's), a lot of fish, deserts sometimes, pork and and chicken pretty often, beef occasionally, a slice of pizza for lunch a lot of the time.  I would guess that I don't eat enough vegetables.  I'm not regimented though so I can't tell you exactly.  My weight fluctuates between 155 and 150 at 5'8".  I'd like to think my BF is low, but it's hard to really know for sure.

Have you tried other approaches? If yes, how do they compare?

[technokc]

Well since we are talking simply from experience, as far as your M2 principle, I do enjoy drinking and find that my muscles are fuller and I am leaner when I drink twice a week (usually 6-12 beers a night).  Not sure if it is because I know I am going out so I train harder and diet better the days before or if it has to do with the beer itself(hell you never know).

I have quit drinking before for extended periods of time(usually because of bitchy girlfriends) and found no benefit to my phsysique.  On the other hand there were times when I was drinking 4-6 times a week and was definetly not at my best looking then.

Take from it what you will, just my personal experience.

[wavelength]

Well since we are talking simply from experience, as far as your M2 principle, I do enjoy drinking and find that my muscles are fuller and I am leaner when I drink twice a week (usually 6-12 beers a night).  Not sure if it is because I know I am going out so I train harder and diet better the days before or if it has to do with the beer itself(hell you never know).

I have quit drinking before for extended periods of time(usually because of bitchy girlfriends) and found no benefit to my phsysique.  On the other hand there were times when I was drinking 4-6 times a week and was definetly not at my best looking then.

Take from it what you will, just my personal experience.

In the times you were drinking 4-6 times a week, were you still following P1-P4? My guess is you were not, or simply could not, due to the high alcohol intake.

[technokc]

In the times you were drinking 4-6 times a week, were you still following P1-P4? My guess is you were not, or simply could not, due to the high alcohol intake.

Most likely definetly not,  I dont like to eat when I am drinking, and when drinking that often it is hard to force myself to eat.  However when doing it twice a week it is easier to force myself to do it.  I always eat right before drinking and then if I am out I make sure I get something like an order of wings or a hamburger.  Then before bed I always eat a can of tuna.

I know science says drinking is bad for training but it could be that the actual beer didnt effect me at all and it was just that I had bad eating habits when drinking.

I will say this though, at the time I definetly did not have the best workouts.  Now I usually know when I am drinking so I can plan my workouts accordingly.

[wavelength]

Most likely definetly not,  I dont like to eat when I am drinking, and when drinking that often it is hard to force myself to eat.  However when doing it twice a week it is easier to force myself to do it.  I always eat right before drinking and then if I am out I make sure I get something like an order of wings or a hamburger.  Then before bed I always eat a can of tuna.

I know science says drinking is bad for training but it could be that the actual beer didnt effect me at all and it was just that I had bad eating habits when drinking.

I will say this though, at the time I definetly did not have the best workouts.  Now I usually know when I am drinking so I can plan my workouts accordingly.

Perfect, so this means that as long as you actually were following P1-P4, alcohol intake had minimal, no, or even positive influence. M2 = Myth.

[technokc]

Perfect, so this means that as long as you actually were following P1-P4, alcohol intake had minimal, no, or even positive influence. M2 = Myth.

From personal experience, yes, I would have to agree with that.