Paul: Reject the major parties, go for a third

[Bindare_Dundat]

Paul: Reject the major parties, go for a third
By SUZANNE GAMBOA AND SAM HANANEL
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITERS

WASHINGTON -- Libertarian-leaning congressman Ron Paul is urging voters to reject John McCain and Barack Obama and support one of the third-party candidates for president.

Paul, a Republican who abandoned his White House bid earlier this year, is gathering some of the candidates, independent Ralph Nader among them, on Wednesday to make his plea.

"The strongest message can be sent by rejecting the two party system," Paul said in prepared remarks obtained by The Associated Press. "This can be accomplished by voting for one of the non-establishment, principled candidates."

He recommended Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party, former Georgia Republican Rep. Bob Barr of the Libertarian Party, former Georgia Democratic Rep. Cynthia McKinney of the Green Party and possibly others. He invited them to his news conference Wednesday.

Paul won no primaries in the Republican nomination contest but developed a strong following on the Internet and set a single-day record for raising money online. Thousands attended his protest last week near the GOP convention in St. Paul, Minn.

Some Republicans have been concerned Paul could siphon votes from the party in the same way Democrats accused Nader of doing in 2000 when he ran under the Green Party banner.

But when Nader ran in 2004 as an independent, he garnered just 0.3 percent of the vote from 34 states. The Constitution, Green and Libertarian candidates received even fewer votes. Nader claims he has enough signatures to get on the ballot in 45 states this year.

Nader predicted the gathering of third-party candidates would "raise the eyebrows" of pundits who are skeptical of the viability of independent presidential campaigns. The candidates will agree on several common issues they believe are being ignored by the major parties.

"This is the beginning of the realignment of American politics," Nader said.

Paul espouses limited government and individual responsibility. He is a critic of election laws that he says are designed to prevent third-party candidates from getting on ballots and participating in debates.

[24KT]

Paul: Reject the major parties, go for a third
By SUZANNE GAMBOA AND SAM HANANEL
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITERS

WASHINGTON -- Libertarian-leaning congressman Ron Paul is urging voters to reject John McCain and Barack Obama and support one of the third-party candidates for president.

Paul, a Republican who abandoned his White House bid earlier this year, is gathering some of the candidates, independent Ralph Nader among them, on Wednesday to make his plea.

"The strongest message can be sent by rejecting the two party system," Paul said in prepared remarks obtained by The Associated Press. "This can be accomplished by voting for one of the non-establishment, principled candidates."

He recommended Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party, former Georgia Republican Rep. Bob Barr of the Libertarian Party, former Georgia Democratic Rep. Cynthia McKinney of the Green Party and possibly others. He invited them to his news conference Wednesday.

Paul won no primaries in the Republican nomination contest but developed a strong following on the Internet and set a single-day record for raising money online. Thousands attended his protest last week near the GOP convention in St. Paul, Minn.

Some Republicans have been concerned Paul could siphon votes from the party in the same way Democrats accused Nader of doing in 2000 when he ran under the Green Party banner.

But when Nader ran in 2004 as an independent, he garnered just 0.3 percent of the vote from 34 states. The Constitution, Green and Libertarian candidates received even fewer votes. Nader claims he has enough signatures to get on the ballot in 45 states this year.

Nader predicted the gathering of third-party candidates would "raise the eyebrows" of pundits who are skeptical of the viability of independent presidential campaigns. The candidates will agree on several common issues they believe are being ignored by the major parties.

"This is the beginning of the realignment of American politics," Nader said.

Paul espouses limited government and individual responsibility. He is a critic of election laws that he says are designed to prevent third-party candidates from getting on ballots and participating in debates.

Methinks the Republicans have the most to loose if people heed his call.

[Benny B]

Who's this Paul Ron guy?   

[Purge_WTF]

Who's this Paul Ron guy?   

  He's a guy whose followers are all telling you to go fuck yourself.

[Benny B]

  He's a guy whose followers are all telling you to go fuck yourself.

Really? That's rather mean spirited, especially since he seems to be a virtual unknown.  How many followers does Paul Ron have, and do you think he has a chance in the fall election? Will he appear at any of the debates?

[Bindare_Dundat]

Really? That's rather mean spirited, especially since he seems to be a virtual unknown. 

You must have been living under a rock. Please crawl back.

[calmus]

Not surprised that a man who refuses to leave the Republican party would trot out a strategy that would benefit the Repugs.

[youandme]

Not surprised that a man who refuses to leave the Republican party would trot out a strategy that would benefit the Repugs.

He told them to vote for Barr as well, that would be bad for conservatives would-be voters.

[Dos Equis]

But when Nader ran in 2004 as an independent, he garnered just 0.3 percent of the vote from 34 states. The Constitution, Green and Libertarian candidates received even fewer votes.

Yep.  These folks are irrelevant. 

Vote for McKinney??   

[MB_722]

Not surprised that a man who refuses to leave the Republican party would trot out a strategy that would benefit the Repugs.

Thats one thing I don't get about Ron Paul, maybe the joke is on us.

He's 72, still working within the system he despises and he continues to work it. Why not run as an independent. I know we have had these convo's on here before. Why even do it in the first place if you don't plan on leaving the 2 party system.

The way I look at it now, it looks like a sham.

[240 is Back]

Yep.  These folks are irrelevant. 

if barr steals 6% in Georgia, he takes the state from McCain and gives the election to obama.

That's huge.  And that's just one state.  He's chipping away a little bit in every state.

his positions are almost all republican, just a few differences, and most libertarians are strong constitutionalist, small govt, small borrwers - true republicans.

[Hugo Chavez]

Yep.  These folks are irrelevant. 

Vote for McKinney??   

The green party VP, I forgot her name, has threatened to mobilize the hip hop nation... ahahaha

[loco]

Thats one thing I don't get about Ron Paul, maybe the joke is on us.

He's 72, still working within the system he despises and he continues to work it. Why not run as an independent. I know we have had these convo's on here before. Why even do it in the first place if you don't plan on leaving the 2 party system.

The way I look at it now, it looks like a sham.

I think Ron Paul, like many Americans, is unhappy about the current state of his country.  But Ron Paul, unlike many Americans who do nothing but just complain or leave the country, Paul wants instead to do everything that he can to make a difference.  He knows that while he is in congress, he is in a better position to make a difference.  His voting history in congress shows this.

[Dos Equis]

if barr steals 6% in Georgia, he takes the state from McCain and gives the election to obama.

That's huge.  And that's just one state.  He's chipping away a little bit in every state.

his positions are almost all republican, just a few differences, and most libertarians are strong constitutionalist, small govt, small borrwers - true republicans.

I will be very surprised if Barr swings any state election one way or the other.  As the article says, the Libertarian candidate pulled less than 0.3 percent of the vote in 04.  I don't think Barr will measurably affect those numbers (or least not enough to change the outcome of Obama v. McCain).  He's not a strong enough candidate.  He's not smart enough to be president.  He has too much personal baggage.  He's probably a hypocrite. 

True Republicans are Libertarians?  I disagree.  True Republicans are Republicans.  The Libertarian party is not identical to the Republican party.   

[w8tlftr]

I will be very surprised if Barr swings any state election one way or the other.  As the article says, the Libertarian candidate pulled less than 0.3 percent of the vote in 04.  I don't think Barr will measurably affect those numbers (or least not enough to change the outcome of Obama v. McCain).  He's not a strong enough candidate.  He's not smart enough to be president.  He has too much personal baggage.  He's probably a hypocrite. 

True Republicans are Libertarians?  I disagree.  True Republicans are Republicans.  The Libertarian party is not identical to the Republican party.   

FAIL

240 is right on this one.

Small and limited government.

Individual liberty and freedom.

Non-interventionalist foreign policy.

Fiscal responsibility.

Those things used to mean something to the Republican party.

But you are right about one thing. The Libertarian party is not identical to the Republican party because the borrow and spend, military industrial complex controlled, socially hypocritical mindset runs the Republican party now.

They are no better than the socialist hacks the run the Democratic party.

[Dos Equis]

FAIL

240 is right on this one.

Small and limited government.

Individual liberty and freedom.

Non-interventionalist foreign policy.

Fiscal responsibility.

Those things used to mean something to the Republican party.

But you are right about one thing. The Libertarian party is not identical to the Republican party because the borrow and spend, military industrial complex controlled, socially hypocritical mindset runs the Republican party now.

They are no better than the socialist hacks the run the Democratic party.

There may be similarities, but there are a number of differences, particularly on social issues.  In fact, I question whether there is any similarity on social issues between Libertarians and Republicans.  Maybe there are, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.   

[240 is Back]

I will be very surprised if Barr swings any state election one way or the other.  As the article says, the Libertarian candidate pulled less than 0.3 percent of the vote in 04.  I don't think Barr will measurably affect those numbers (or least not enough to change the outcome of Obama v. McCain).  He's not a strong enough candidate.  He's not smart enough to be president.  He has too much personal baggage.  He's probably a hypocrite. 

True Republicans are Libertarians?  I disagree.  True Republicans are Republicans.  The Libertarian party is not identical to the Republican party.   

This isn't a debate on the merits of barr's beliefs, or his ability to perform the duties of the office.

I posted that he can swing a Bush state, Georgia, to Obama.  And its 15 electoral votes.  georgia has a big african-american population, which has favored Obama.  There are a lot of Ron paul voters down south, in case you didnt know.  And of course, barr has lots of fans in Georgia.

And, Obama is running commercials there.

[Dos Equis]

This isn't a debate on the merits of barr's beliefs, or his ability to perform the duties of the office.

I posted that he can swing a Bush state, Georgia, to Obama.  And its 15 electoral votes.  georgia has a big african-american population, which has favored Obama.  There are a lot of Ron paul voters down south, in case you didnt know.  And of course, barr has lots of fans in Georgia.

And, Obama is running commercials there.

This is a discussion about the viability of third-party candidates, including Barr.  Whether Barr, as a Libertarian candidate, can change election results requires an analysis of his positions, his background . . . the fact he is a buffoon.

I doubt Barr with all of the baggage he brings to the table, and the Libertarian Party, which pulled less than .03 percent of the vote in 04, will do much in Georgia or anywhere else.  Barr couldn't even win a Congressional election in Georgia, so having state-wide appeal is even less likely.   

I doubt he has more of an impact than McKinney.  I think they were arguably the two biggest duds in Congress. 

[240 is Back]

This is a discussion about the viability of third-party candidates, including Barr. 

Actually, it wasn't - it was about Ron Paul voters. 

Well, until post #8, when you changed the subject

Predict what % you think he'll pull in Georgia.

[Dos Equis]

Actually, it wasn't - it was about Ron Paul voters. 

Well, until post #8, when you changed the subject

Predict what % you think he'll pull in Georgia.

Oh brother.  So the article didn't mention anything about Barr, McKinney, their parties, etc.?    

In any event, I don't know what percentage he will pull in Georgia.  I'll just reiterate what I've previously said that I will be very surprised if he has any measurable affect on the race, in Georgia or anywhere else. 

[w8tlftr]

There may be similarities, but there are a number of differences, particularly on social issues.  In fact, I question whether there is any similarity on social issues between Libertarians and Republicans.  Maybe there are, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.   

Not anymore.

War on drugs, teaching abstinence in school, national id system, Patriot Act, gay marriage, etc.

They claim to be the party of small government but then support big and intrusive government policies and legislation.

No different than their Democrat brothers. They both want government involved in your life.

[240 is Back]

Today, the govt is the biggest it has ever been.

Mccain can argue "obama will only lead to bloated govt", but he's only credible if he'll first admit the govt is bigger under Bush than it was for CLinton.

[Dos Equis]

Not anymore.

War on drugs, teaching abstinence in school, national id system, Patriot Act, gay marriage, etc.

They claim to be the party of small government but then support big and intrusive government policies and legislation.

No different than their Democrat brothers. They both want government involved in your life.

I agree there are a lot of similarities.  It's sort of funny to watch candidates from both parties run left and right during the primaries to appeal to their base and show how different the candidates and parties are, then to the center in the general to show how similar they are.  Both sides embrace whatever the issue of the day is.  I recall in 2000 or 2004 one of the major issues was a prescription drug plan for seniors.  Both sides essentially parroted each other.  The current mantra is "change," which both sides are trying to embrace. 

[Bindare_Dundat]

I agree there are a lot of similarities.  It's sort of funny to watch candidates from both parties run left and right during the primaries to appeal to their base and show how different the candidates and parties are, then to the center in the general to show how similar they are.  Both sides embrace whatever the issue of the day is.  I recall in 2000 or 2004 one of the major issues was a prescription drug plan for seniors.  Both sides essentially parroted each other.  The current mantra is "change," which both sides are trying to embrace. 

It would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.

[Benny B]

Anything new from this Paul Ron guy? Its too bad he's only becoming known so close to the election.  Maybe if he campaigns really, really hard he can win this thing!