Author Topic: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'  (Read 17811 times)

MCWAY

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #150 on: September 25, 2008, 05:46:33 PM »
Mother Theresa was; her letters prove it.

Her letters prove nothing of the sort. They show that, as some points in her life, she was in despair and expressed doubt, as is the case with virtually every Christian that has ever walked the face of this earth.

The Luke

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #151 on: September 25, 2008, 06:01:18 PM »
Apparently McWay can't comprehend of an intelligent person PRETENDING to be religious in order to sway genuinely religious sheeple. Read about L Ron Hubbard some time.


Would Martin Luther King Jr have become a minister if he'd been able to run for office...? I think had he been born in Europe or perhaps just born two decades later he'd have been a socialist politician or trade union leader.

Likewise, if Obama had been born in Europe he wouldn't need to maintain the pretense of Christianity during elections.

Mother Theresa's letters are actually quite explicit... she had no faith that God existed for the last few decades of her life. She simply felt trapped into maintaining the facade of piety.

Christopher Hitchens (a respected historian/biographer as well as a celebrated, outspoken anti-theist) has written very convincingly on all three of these subjects.



All across the globe, in every field of human endeavor, the VAST OVERWHELMING majority of intellectuals are atheists (or should I say: "realists"). Why should intellectuals running for office in America be any different?

Could it be that American voters are "just too fucking dumb"? (to bring us back on topic)



The Luke

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #152 on: September 25, 2008, 06:28:03 PM »
Apparently McWay can't comprehend of an intelligent person PRETENDING to be religious in order to sway genuinely religious sheeple. Read about L Ron Hubbard some time.

I can comprehend it. I can also comprehend a desperate atheist, who repeatedly sticks his feet in his mouth, making up stuff to cover his you-know-what, when his crackpot claims get dismantled.

You have NOTHING that shows that Obama is an atheist; you have NOTHING that shows that King was such.


Would Martin Luther King Jr have become a minister if he'd been able to run for office...? I think had he been born in Europe or perhaps just born two decades later he'd have been a socialist politician or trade union leader.

Likewise, if Obama had been born in Europe he wouldn't need to maintain the pretense of Christianity during elections.

And, if Scott Norwood's FG were 2 feet to the left, the Bills would have a Super Bowl Championship.

BOTTOM LINE: IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. King was a minister, not an atheist, end of story on that one. Obama, regardless of where he was born, lives here and professed to be a Christian.

And, bottom line, YOU SAID that you'd vote for him, a professed Christian, and (by your own words) a "moron". Quit trying to make up hypothetical "would've, should've, could've" scenarios to prop up your flatten points.

They ain't atheists, period. You have NOTHING that shows either man was "pretending".



Mother Theresa's letters are actually quite explicit... she had no faith that God existed for the last few decades of her life. She simply felt trapped into maintaining the facade of piety.

Christopher Hitchens (a respected historian/biographer as well as a celebrated, outspoken anti-theist) has written very convincingly on all three of these subjects.

Wrong again. I've read her letters and they say nothing of the sort.


All across the globe, in every field of human endeavor, the VAST OVERWHELMING majority of intellectuals are atheists (or should I say: "realists"). Why should intellectuals running for office in America be any different?

Could it be that American voters are "just too fucking dumb"? (to bring us back on topic)

The Luke


You mean to bring YOURSELF back on topic. You're the one that stated that you would support certain candidates, namely Obama and Paul. Yet, the only way to get yourself out of the corner, in which you painted yourself, is to pretend Obama is an atheist, which he IS NOT. And, lest we forget, you mentioned the one reason why you would not vote for Paul, and SURPRISE!!!! His religious beliefs was NOT the reason you gave.

Europe and their alleged intellectuals have nothing to do with the matter. You proclaimed your would-be support for two presidental candidates, BOTH OF WHOM are Christians. You have zip that proves that they're pretending to do that for political expedience, relying solely on your warped (and unsubstantiated) concept that high intellects and Christian faith can't mutually exist.

What's worse, you continue to make false statements about both King and Mother Theresa. Neither denied that God existed, especially King. Theresa's letters expressed her being rejected by God, feeling spiritually empty, and thinking that He is not (or will not) answer her prayers. Again, she is hardly the first Christian to express such feelings. Many in the faith have expressed such woe LONG before Mother Theresa.


Everything she's experiencing is what average believers experience in their spiritual lives writ large. I have known scores of people who have felt abandoned by God and had doubts about God's existence....Who would have thought that the person who was considered the most faithful woman in the world struggled like that with her faith?" he asks. "And who would have thought that the one thought to be the most ardent of believers could be a saint to the skeptics?" - Rev. James Martin

To top it all off, Mother Theresa wanted those letters destroyed because, "I want the work to remain only His (Jesus)." And, she felt if the letters were published, "people will think more of me — less of Jesus."

No matter what her peronsal feelings were, she DID NOT want them to hinder what she believed to be God's work. So much for all the atheist flap about MT.

The more you try to hide your pitiful posturing, the more pathetic you look. You find a figure whom you think is an intectual and insightful guy. Yet, when you find out he's a Christian, it skewers your warped worldview, to the point that you have to make up foolishness to cover your exposed self.

You are just as "dumb" as the American voter, because you have expressed your (at the very least superficial) support of TWO presidental candidates who are BOTH Christians.





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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #153 on: September 25, 2008, 06:51:06 PM »
McWay,

Again, you are arguing against what you think I posted... not what I actually posted.

Attending church and professing Christian faith do not make one a Christian... I myself was confirmed into the Catholic Church at age twelve, very very profitable... I made 70 Irish punts... if a twelve year old atheist (I took a satanic name and the bishop actually confirmed me "Set"! Hilarious.) would do that for a new bike, wouldn't an atheist politician do the same for the presidency?

If MLK was so religious, why did he spend so much time in the company of atheists?

Regarding Mother Theresa (who lived down the road from me and I knew her driver by the way):
Wrong again. I've read her letters and they say nothing of the sort.

...did you come to that conclusion using the same reading skills that have you misconstruing my posts?
If you are so right and I am so wrong, why does no one else posting in this thread agree with your interpretation of my argument?

You claim I am wrong for arguing that intellectuals can't be Christians because some intellectuals claim to be Christians... I might be short on proof by using the general trend for atheism among intellectuals as the basis of my argument, but you seem to be certain professed Christians are actually Christian based on no evidence whatsoever?

Tell me McWay, can you tell the difference between a Christian and a lying atheist?


The Luke

PS -Just for the record, the new pope, Pope Benedict XVI, is also an atheist. (Don't take the bait on this one McWay, it'll be embarrassing for you) 


MCWAY

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #154 on: September 26, 2008, 05:37:06 AM »
McWay,

Again, you are arguing against what you think I posted... not what I actually posted.

Try that again.

I'd vote for Ron Paul....

...BUT....

...his small government ideals and free-market economics won't work for much longer.

Reducing government to the extent that corporations could possibly overpower it is simply foolish, add to this the growing menace of desk-top technologies such as genetically-tuned viral weapons; cold fusion; and especially supra-human AI... and you have a recipe for disaster.


That is YOUR quote. Maybe I need to squint a little harder, but WHERE in that post do you state that your reason for not voting for Paul is due to his Christian beliefs?



Attending church and professing Christian faith do not make one a Christian... I myself was confirmed into the Catholic Church at age twelve, very very profitable... I made 70 Irish punts... if a twelve year old atheist (I took a satanic name and the bishop actually confirmed me "Set"! Hilarious.) would do that for a new bike, wouldn't an atheist politician do the same for the presidency?

So, you've shown yourself to be a liar (you'll excuse me, if I don't pass out from shock). You have yet to demonstrate that such applies to Obama. You have NOT shown where he states his disbelief in God, or what policies he endorses to that end.


If MLK was so religious, why did he spend so much time in the company of atheists?

I'm sorry!! I missed the memo where spending time with atheists voids your status as a believer in God. Jesus Christ was criticized for befriending tax collectors and prostitutes. I guess that makes Him an IRS agent and a whore.  ::) .

Not only was King not an atheist, he was a minister. And, contrary to your blatantly false claim, he used references to the God he served in his speeches, both inside and outside his church.


Regarding Mother Theresa (who lived down the road from me and I knew her driver by the way):
...did you come to that conclusion using the same reading skills that have you misconstruing my posts?
If you are so right and I am so wrong, why does no one else posting in this thread agree with your interpretation of my argument? 

I didn't misconstruct your post. What you're doing is scrambling for excuses, because you can't defend your own statements. The simple fact you stated that your concern about Paul was his economic policy; otherwise you'd vote for him. By your own self-inflicted words, Paul is a "moron" and shouldn't even be considered for office, because he is a Christian. Yet, but for a disagreement in a certain policy, YOU WOULD VOTE FOR HIM. There is no misconstructing words here. Your statements are in black-and-white, genius.




You claim I am wrong for arguing that intellectuals can't be Christians because some intellectuals claim to be Christians... I might be short on proof by using the general trend for atheism among intellectuals as the basis of my argument, but you seem to be certain professed Christians are actually Christian based on no evidence whatsoever?

Tell me McWay, can you tell the difference between a Christian and a lying atheist?

It's called benefit of the doubt.

Again, demonstrate that King, Obama, Theresa and the other folks you mentioned are lying. You can start by stating what actions of their disqualify them from being "actually Christian".

Oh, I forgot. King associated with atheists; Theresa, during times of despair, expressed doubts about God's love for her. Yep, those are real nail-in-the-coffin points, there.  ::)

Since you just stated that you're "short on proof" (an understatment, to say the least), I will take Paul and Obama's statements of faith as valid, until such evidence to the contrary comes to light.



PS -Just for the record, the new pope, Pope Benedict XVI, is also an atheist. (Don't take the bait on this one McWay, it'll be embarrassing for you) 


I don't know what the definition of atheist is in Bizarro-world (where you reside); but, last time I checked, an atheist was someone who specifically belief that there is no supernatural deity. Benedict doesn't fit that description. Of course, neither do King, Paul, Theresa, or Obama.

The Luke

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #155 on: September 26, 2008, 09:15:54 AM »
What is this, the Sarah Palin Institute of Answering-The-Question-You-Want-to-Answer-Not-The-Question-Asked...?

Try to answer this one McWay...
Tell me McWay, can you tell the difference between a Christian and a lying atheist?

...it shows just how stupid your position is.


The Luke

MCWAY

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #156 on: September 26, 2008, 09:57:51 AM »
What is this, the Sarah Palin Institute of Answering-The-Question-You-Want-to-Answer-Not-The-Question-Asked...?

Try to answer this one McWay...
...it shows just how stupid your position is.

The Luke

You're one to talk. I've asked you specifically to cite any words or deeds that back your claims of Obama, King, and Paul being atheists. You've come up with zip.

Show where King is lying about his faith, or Obama is lying about his faith, or that Paul is lying about his faith.

A "lying atheist" would (for lack of a better term) "come out" upon achieving some sort of political/financial advantage. That is, under the HUGE assumption that he is never exposed beforehand.

Of course, that is essentially moot, as you don't have JACK to show that the aforementioned people are atheists. BTW, what are the actions of these people that you can show, which deems them as not being "actually Christian"?

Try that on for size, instead of stumbling and fumbling around, trying to cover your behind.

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #157 on: September 26, 2008, 10:02:01 AM »
show me how Noah got 2 of every animal together.
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MCWAY

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #158 on: September 26, 2008, 10:06:01 AM »
show me how Noah got 2 of every animal together.

Try reading "Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study".

Better yet, try actually making a statement, revelant to the topic at hand.

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #159 on: September 26, 2008, 10:10:34 AM »
You're one to talk. I've asked you specifically to cite any words or deeds that back your claims of Obama, King, and Paul being atheists. You've come up with zip.

Show where King is lying about his faith, or Obama is lying about his faith, or that Paul is lying about his faith.

It is impossible to tell whether someone is being genuine or insincere in professing their faith... I'm not sure you grasp this basic truth.

However, outside of the faith-focused arena of politics, among the general public there is a very, very strong trend (I would contend a causal link) for intellectuals to be atheists. It's not just a trend actually, it's a very strong correlation with 99+% of intellectuals being atheists.

That's why I find it hard to believe ANY intellectual is a religious believer despite their protestations... it's just so much more likely that such a person (Obama; MLK etc) is actually an atheist maintaining a necessary facade of faith.

Remove the requirement of such a facade, as happens in scientific circles, and 99+% of intellectuals dismiss the concept of a personal god.

Don't you understand this McWay?


The Luke

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #160 on: September 26, 2008, 10:34:35 AM »
It is impossible to tell whether someone is being genuine or insincere in professing their faith... I'm not sure you grasp this basic truth.

Then, your claims, boy genius, that Obama and Paul are lying about their Christian faith, hold even LESS WEIGHT.


However, outside of the faith-focused arena of politics, among the general public there is a very, very strong trend (I would contend a causal link) for intellectuals to be atheists. It's not just a trend actually, it's a very strong correlation with 99+% of intellectuals being atheists.

Assuming that gibberish is correct (a gracious one, to say the least), the two men in question, Barack Obama and Ron Paul, the two men that YOU WOULD GIVE YOUR VOTE are both Christians.

But, lest you whine and cry about my misinterpreting your statements again, 

I'd vote for Ron Paul....

...BUT....

...his small government ideals and free-market economics won't work for much longer.

Reducing government to the extent that corporations could possibly overpower it is simply foolish, add to this the growing menace of desk-top technologies such as genetically-tuned viral weapons; cold fusion; and especially supra-human AI... and you have a recipe for disaster.


That is the reason you gave Deicide for your reluctance to support Paul. NOTHING IN THAT STATEMENT mentions his Christian faith, which by your own words...again....This is why religious people shouldn't be considered for any official office... they are intrinsically divorced from reality. They actually seem to be think that simply because they CONVINCE themselves of miracles and other such moronic superstitions that their BELIEF can somehow alter reality.

Obama and Paul, by their own words, are men of faith. They believe in God; therefore they are NOT atheists. You've, by your previous statements (quoted above for all to see), stated that they aren't fit for office. Yet, you would vote for either man., thus making you the "moron" you claim others to be.




That's why I find it hard to believe ANY intellectual is a religious believer despite their protestations... it's just so much more likely that such a person (Obama; MLK etc) is actually an atheist maintaining a necessary facade of faith.

Just when you think the buffoonery has reached its limit, you come up with this gem. Your finding it "hard to believe" holds as much worth as a Confederate dollar. To even suggest that King was hiding is atheism by becoming a MINISTER is beyond ridiculous. As for Obama, again, what are these actions or statements that betray his professed Christian faith.




Remove the requirement of such a facade, as happens in scientific circles, and 99+% of intellectuals dismiss the concept of a personal god.

Don't you understand this McWay?

The Luke

I understand that you've ducked the questions regarding your demostrations of the aforementioned people being atheists, or not being "actually Christian". I understand that you continue to taste your own toes, by claiming that religious people shouldn't be considered for office and they're morons on one hand, while publicly declaring your support for two presidental candidates, who've declared that they are Christians, on the other.

Then, in a pathetic attempt to shield your exposed rump, you come up with this cornball conspiracy that these men are closet atheists, with little-or-nothing to back your claims (by your own words, you're "short on proof"). What's more comical/pathetic, you try to pull that line with MLK.



To this day, you have YET to show that such is a facade, as it relates to Obama, Paul, or King. This is based on little more than your cracked-up, jacked-up logic, regarding intellect and faith.

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #161 on: September 26, 2008, 10:51:19 AM »
Then, your claims, boy genius, that Obama and Paul are lying about their Christian faith, hold even LESS WEIGHT.

Assuming that gibberish is correct (a gracious one, to say the least), the two men in question, Barack Obama and Ron Paul, the two men that YOU WOULD GIVE YOUR VOTE are both Christians.

But, lest you whine and cry about my misinterpreting your statements again, 

I'd vote for Ron Paul....

...BUT....

...his small government ideals and free-market economics won't work for much longer.

Reducing government to the extent that corporations could possibly overpower it is simply foolish, add to this the growing menace of desk-top technologies such as genetically-tuned viral weapons; cold fusion; and especially supra-human AI... and you have a recipe for disaster.

That is the reason you gave Deicide for your reluctance to support Paul. NOTHING IN THAT STATEMENT mentions his Christian faith, which by your own words...again....This is why religious people shouldn't be considered for any official office... they are intrinsically divorced from reality. They actually seem to be think that simply because they CONVINCE themselves of miracles and other such moronic superstitions that their BELIEF can somehow alter reality.

Obama and Paul, by their own words, are men of faith. They believe in God; therefore they are NOT atheists. You've, by your previous statements (quoted above for all to see), stated that they aren't fit for office. Yet, you would vote for either man., thus making you the "moron" you claim others to be.


Just when you think the buffoonery has reached its limit, you come up with this gem. Your finding it "hard to believe" holds as much worth as a Confederate dollar. To even suggest that King was hiding is atheism by becoming a MINISTER is beyond ridiculous. As for Obama, again, what are these actions or statements that betray his professed Christian faith.


I understand that you've ducked the questions regarding your demostrations of the aforementioned people being atheists, or not being "actually Christian". I understand that you continue to taste your own toes, by claiming that religious people shouldn't be considered for office and they're morons on one hand, while publicly declaring your support for two presidental candidates, who've declared that they are Christians, on the other.

Then, in a pathetic attempt to shield your exposed rump, you come up with this cornball conspiracy that these men are closet atheists, with little-or-nothing to back your claims (by your own words, you're "short on proof"). What's more comical/pathetic, you try to pull that line with MLK.



To this day, you have YET to show that such is a facade, as it relates to Obama, Paul, or King. This is based on little more than your cracked-up, jacked-up logic, regarding intellect and faith.

Paul isn't lying about his Christianity, which is unfortunate. No one is perfect. Obama is a slimely politician and he is intelligent, he knows religion is for the masses, the weak and the gullible.
I hate the State.

The Luke

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #162 on: September 26, 2008, 10:55:02 AM »
McWay,

I won't argue this point any further with you... someone else who is reading this will chime in and either put you in your place or point out how you are missing the point.

If this was a discussion I would participate... but it is not.

You shout down my points without substantiation of your objections, yet demand that I provide substantiation for everything I say.


This has reached a point of futility when in my last post I asked:
It is impossible to tell whether someone is being genuine or insincere in professing their faith... I'm not sure you grasp this basic truth.

...a question which you obviously failed to comprehend when you asked:
To this day, you have YET to show that such is a facade, as it relates to Obama, Paul, or King. This is based on little more than your cracked-up, jacked-up logic, regarding intellect and faith.


...so your argument AGAINST my claim that such a determination is impossible is my FAILURE to do so?

So I claim something is impossible... you claim it must be POSSIBLE because no one can do it?

I Maher's words you, sir, are "just too fucking dumb".


The Luke

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #163 on: September 26, 2008, 11:01:13 AM »
The Luke,

The Almighty says: Answer the f...freaking question.

You're worse than Sarah Palin.

The Luke

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #164 on: September 26, 2008, 11:03:44 AM »
The Luke,

The Almighty says: Answer the f...freaking question.

You're worse than Sarah Palin.

...which question?


The Luke

MCWAY

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #165 on: September 26, 2008, 11:07:07 AM »
McWay,

I won't argue this point any further with you... someone else who is reading this will chime in and either put you in your place or point out how you are missing the point.

If this was a discussion I would participate... but it is not.

In other words, you're hoping someone can do the job that you CAN'T do.


You shout down my points without substantiation of your objections, yet demand that I provide substantiation for everything I say.

How horrible of me to actually ask you to to back your claim about three men (Obama, Paul, and MLK) supposedly pretending to be atheists, especially with one of them being a minister.



This has reached a point of futility when in my last post I asked:
...a question which you obviously failed to comprehend when you asked:

...so your argument AGAINST my claim that such a determination is impossible is my FAILURE to do so?

So I claim something is impossible... you claim it must be POSSIBLE because no one can do it?

I Maher's words you, sir, are "just too fucking dumb".


The Luke

As usual, you tuck your tail and cry like a you-know-what, when you can't back your smack. If it's impossible to tell if someone is being a Christian or not, then it would behoove you to either give them the benefit of the doubt concerning their faith (until evidence to the contrary appears), or execute the mute function on them lips of yours!!!

You have done neither and have pulled more gaffes than Joe Biden on the campaign trail, trying to plug the holes in your argument. Other than your perpetual "They're so smart and insightful; they can't really be Christians" bleating, you have produce diddly squat, regarding your claims.

At the end of the day, you have pledged your would-be support for Obama (a Christian man, by his own account) and, but for an economic disagreement (NOT AN ISSUE WITH HIS FAITH), you'd do the same for Paul.

And, that, boy genius, makes you a "moron", BY YOUR OWN STANDARDS, which you listed here for all to see.


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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #166 on: September 26, 2008, 11:21:45 AM »
McWay,


All I did was apply trends evident in every human population to intellectual politicians.

Simply speaking... in every field of human endeavor ALL intellectuals are atheists... why should intellectual politicians be an anomalous exception?


The Luke


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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #167 on: September 26, 2008, 11:28:52 AM »
McWay,


All I did was apply trends evident in every human population to intellectual politicians.

Simply speaking... in every field of human endeavor ALL intellectuals are atheists... why should intellectual politicians be an anomalous exception?


The Luke


What you did was apply your atheistic philosophy and OPINION and stretch that way beyond the scope of the subject. You are making a lack of faith in God a REQUIREMENT to be an intellectual. That is hardly the case.

You believe that Obama and Paul are intellectuals or you would not consider voting for them. Yet, these two men are Christians, by their own accounts. And, unless you have evidence to the contrary, you have little choice but to take their words at face value or continue this odd conspiracy theory of yours, which you can't back.

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #168 on: September 26, 2008, 12:33:09 PM »
That's only the second thing I agree with Maher on (the first one was that the Fashion industry is run by white women and gays, but I digress). Wasn't P.T> Barnum that said, "Nobody has ever gone broke under-estimating the intelligence of the American people"?

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #169 on: September 26, 2008, 12:52:19 PM »
McWay,


Don't you understand that I can only be as certain of Obama being an atheist as you can be of him being a Christian?

He is a highly educated intellectual and former professor of constitutional law... I'd say from a statistical standpoint it's more likely he's faking for the sheeple such as yourself.

Didn't Putin wear a crucifix lapel pin to win over Dubya?


The Luke

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #170 on: September 26, 2008, 02:06:43 PM »
McWay,


Don't you understand that I can only be as certain of Obama being an atheist as you can be of him being a Christian?

He is a highly educated intellectual and former professor of constitutional law... I'd say from a statistical standpoint it's more likely he's faking for the sheeple such as yourself.


I've enjoyed reading this debate so don't take this as an attack.

I was thinking there may be some merit to what you're saying, being that Black Liberation Theology is more about race than faith.  Also, all politicians are fucking liars, which also adds to your claim.

On the other hand, your entire theory is based on a limited sample that you selected and have no way of proving correct.  Yes, you can google a great number of renowned thinkers who were atheists throughout the years,  but there are many others to the contrary.   In essence, I don't think you can create a justifed baseline trend to support your argument.
Y

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #171 on: September 26, 2008, 02:27:00 PM »
Grape Ape,


Could you list three really great thinkers who were devoutly religious... not artists now, but great thinkers?

I asked McWay a series of questions earlier on in this thread regarding symbology in the book of Genesis... he didn't bite, which is unfortunate because not only is there a good argument to be made for ALL intellectuals being atheists there is even a good argument to be made that most great religious thinkers are/were atheists. I was hoping to lure him into a discussion of this.

Even McWay himself isn't too sure exactly what he believes in... there are several different Gods described as the one true god in the Old and New Testaments.

The symbolism in Genesis would seem to indicate that the foundational work of the bible itself was written by an atheist... similar claims could be made regarding much of Christianity.



The Luke

Grape Ape

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #172 on: September 26, 2008, 04:38:41 PM »
Voltaire?

I would think naming them would be moot, because I'm sure a google search will turn up 50 or more.  Being able to name them right away is moot anyway - you're still using a corrupt, cherry-picked sample to create your trend.
Y

The Luke

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #173 on: September 26, 2008, 05:24:29 PM »
Voltaire?

I would think naming them would be moot, because I'm sure a google search will turn up 50 or more.  Being able to name them right away is moot anyway - you're still using a corrupt, cherry-picked sample to create your trend.

Actually, you'd need a Google search to find a devout intellectual... not the other way around.

I used the examples I did in order to show that better arguments can be made for the atheism of even presumptively religious intellectuals than can be made for the sincerity of their professed beliefs. Listing the top 10,000 scientists in the world would have been pretty monotonous... so I had to make the point with figures McWay would accept as both religious and intelligent.

NORAD tracks Santa on their website each Christmas Eve... do those scientists sincerely believe in Santa? Or should we consider the intended audience?

McWay barely reads my posts and is so focused on misconstruing my points as obvious falsehoods that he only ever evades answering my questions... and I can't answer anything he needs clarification on because he can't ever concede anything, let alone his own miscomprehensions.   

So I say "A"... he thinks I said "B"... he asks me why I said "B"... but instead of reading "A" or what I meant by "A" he rants about how "B" is wrong. He can't accept that he doesn't understand a post... and I'm not dumbing down my writing style for him, it's not fair on people such as yourself Grape Ape who are reading this thread for entertainment... we don't need another "Truce" thread.

For example I could present a very plausible argument to refute the piety of the current pope... if anyone was open-minded enough to want to hear it. I'm sure McWay would misconstrue that argument too.


The Luke

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Re: Maher: 'I Don't Trust Americans...They're Just Too F***ing Dumb!'
« Reply #174 on: September 26, 2008, 09:19:44 PM »
Grape Ape,


Could you list three really great thinkers who were devoutly religious... not artists now, but great thinkers?

I asked McWay a series of questions earlier on in this thread regarding symbology in the book of Genesis... he didn't bite, which is unfortunate because not only is there a good argument to be made for ALL intellectuals being atheists there is even a good argument to be made that most great religious thinkers are/were atheists. I was hoping to lure him into a discussion of this.

Ummm....I told you that if you wanted to discuss that, then take it to the Religious Forum, because that particular issue has nothing to do with politics.

Not that I don't know where you're going with this.


Even McWay himself isn't too sure exactly what he believes in... there are several different Gods described as the one true god in the Old and New Testaments.

The symbolism in Genesis would seem to indicate that the foundational work of the bible itself was written by an atheist... similar claims could be made regarding much of Christianity.

The Luke

DEAD WRONG on both counts. I am quite confident in sure in my beliefs. Again, it's apparent that you have some bizarre definition of what an atheist is, to make such an absurd claim about the foundation of the Bible being written by an atheist.

An atheist believes that there is NO GOD, no deity, no supernatural being whatsoever. The authors of the books of the Bible DO NOT fit that description.