Author Topic: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03  (Read 4157 times)

Milos_Sarcev

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Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« on: September 28, 2008, 05:32:01 PM »
 European Flex, april 2004, Enough is enough
« on: March 17, 2004, 11:50:58 AM »   

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“WORDS OF WISDOM” by Milos Sarcev                     (April issue) Jan 15th

“ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!”
 
Q.  Milos, what do you think about the results of the 2003 Mr. Olympia? I remember reading your prediction in Flex that Ronnie Coleman would lose his crown.  Needless to say, Ronnie totally dominated all competition, and convincingly won his sixth ‘Olympia title. After the show I logged onto your website bulletin board, to read your comments, expecting a public apology to Ronnie, but instead you wrote: “If I was a judge, I would have put one guy in front of him?”
Who is this person and why was he better than Ronnie? Marc Tepple e-mail

A. First of all let me emphasize that I consider Ronnie Coleman my personnel friend, someone I love, and respect very much. Ronnie, and I actually turned professional at the exact same time, and competed together for over a decade.  I personally witnessed first hand his rise to the top, and believe me, I was (and still am) ecstatic about his success, which couldn’t happen to a nicer or more deserving person.  Ronnie Coleman is simply a great person, and I mean that, in the true sense of the word, both as a bodybuilder and as a wonderful human being.

I must admit he looked beyond incredible at this year’s Mr. Olympia, and he won by a unanimous judging decision, (perfect scores from every judge in every round) and that my friend is totally unbelievable! I will never forget (October 25th 2003) the moment when Ronnie first stepped on the stage, because it seemed that all sense of time had stopped for a moment.  Everyone was in a state of complete shock, and an eerie silence was broken only by the whispers of sheer disbelief! No human EVER looked like that! EVER!

Reportedly, he weighed in around 290 pounds (over 130 kilos) at a height of 5’ 11” (179cm), and it is my guess that he was actually below 3% body fat!  His conditioning was simply superb, and his muscle mass absolutely unmatched.
But, did he deserve to win?  Well, few would argue, and personally, I felt just like every judge did.  I was witnessing the current Mr. Olympia in tremendous condition, but carrying 40 extra pounds of ripped muscle.  I realized then and there that Ronnie Coleman was simply unbeatable!

But then, I felt myself thinking the way IFBB judges do, which is making us believe that bigger is better, however as a friend of Ronnie, and also a fan, I was happy to notice an overwhelmingly impression from almost everyone, that he would easily win the title again.

In fact, everyone I talked to told me the same thing.  The sky is blue.  The grass is green, and Ronnie Coleman is still Mr. Olympia. Chris Lund who I consider to be a great expert in our sport of bodybuilding, told me that Ronnie is simply the best bodybuilder he has ever seen, or photographed, and he has seen everybody, during the last 35 years. Most IFBB officials, professional athletes and judges, also told me that Ronnie was untouchable, so naturally I found myself in agreement with them, at that time, and I am still extremely pleased that he won, and I am really proud of him.

But, I’ll tell you a little secret.  Every year, for the last 5 years Ronnie would call me a day or two after the ‘Olympia, to ask for my honest opinion, about his victory and conditioning, at that particular show. He knew that I would always tell him the truth, (unlike many other people in the sport) because I have courage to criticize, and have no problem expressing my opinion. Complements are always nice to hear, and naturally everybody always loves to hear them, but really how many people truly mean what they say? It is very easy to give a compliment which means that the recipient will most certainly enjoy hearing it. Critique on the other hand, doesn’t sit well with most people, especially bodybuilders, after a contest, or during a photo shoot.  Just ask Chris Lund!

On the other hand, there were occasions, when I simply had to tell Ronnie that he was lucky to win.  In other words, there were times when I didn’t think he deserved to win the Mr. Olympia! 

 
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Milos Sarcev


  Re: European Flex, april 2004, Enough is enough
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2004, 11:52:03 AM »   

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Also, there were a few times when I told him, that even though I gave him first place, I felt that he just wasn’t at his best! After the 2003 event I probably missed his call because I had to fly to Europe, and you know what? I’m glad I did, because to be honest, I really would not have known what to tell him. Please do not get me wrong. I am a bodybuilder, and I definitely love muscle.  Bodybuilders are extremists, and therefore we constantly try to build as much muscle, that we feel is indeed logical to us. We love to build as much of it (muscle) as we can, but where do we draw the line?

Do you think that today’s judges would give the Mr. Olympia title to the 2003 Ronnie Coleman version, over the 1998 Ronnie, or  perhaps the 2001 Arnold Classic, Ronnie? The answer would probably be yes, even though I personally feel he was actually better in 1998 and 2001.

However, I often wonder what would have happened if he had shown up on the Mr. Olympia stage with Frank Zane back in 1977, 1978, and 1979?

At that time most IFBB judges, (who are they, and where are they today, and can we bring them back?) understood that Zane was considerably smaller than his opponents, but his superior symmetry, proportion, presentation, and muscular conditioning was second to none.  As a result this secured him three consecutive Mr. Olympia titles, against opponents who were larger, and certainly more massively muscled.     

But, you can’t turn back the clock, and Ronnie did what he had to do to win.  The question is, will he do it again next year, or can he raise the bar even higher? Will he try to gain another 40 pounds?? Your guess is as good as mine, but during his post ‘Olympia seminar the following day, he did mention that he was going to improve even more. He couldn’t however, predict what his body weight would be at the 2004 Mr. O!
When Ronnie won his first ‘Olympia back in 1998 nobody could have guessed that he would considerably increase his already incredible muscle mass.  However the following year (1999) he shocked everyone with incredible, noticeable changes.

This year however, he set an all time new standard, and it is simply unbelievable to even think that he could put another ounce of muscle onto his already massive frame.  While most of us talk of muscular gains in grams or ounces, Ronnie, slaps pounds of new muscle on to his body in no time!

But, let me ask you this. Is this now verging on insanity? Well, believe me I am not proud to use this word, but for the future of bodybuilding, and also for Ronnie’s sake, can somebody please speak out?  Now before everyone jumps to conclusions, I am well aware that progress is always the everlasting goal. Judges in bodybuilding were, and still are, obsessed with quantity, instead of the obviously more important choice, of quality.   They fail to realize that there are many other valuable aspects to bodybuilding, besides mass.

Recently, the editor in chief of our favorite magazine Flex, Peter McGough, addressed this particular issue in an editorial, and I have to say, his views are very similar to mine. In fact, I salute him for standing up for what he believes in, and his message is simple.  This mass madness has to stop! Naturally, many people will disagree with Peter and myself, and some judges I talked to recently, already have. 

Let me tell you what happened.  Three IFBB Mr. Olympia judges agreed to be questioned by me on the European tour, after the 2003 Mr. Olympia. First of all I asked them about the most important criteria in contest judging. They all said the same thing.  A symmetrical, well balanced, pleasing, muscular physique in great condition! I then asked them who they placed first at the 2003 ‘Olympia.

They replied by telling me that they all placed Ronnie Coleman in first place.  More importantly, they placed him first in every single round! I simply could not stop myself from saying “In other words, muscle mass is your most important, if not, your only criteria?”

Needless to say, they were all very, very offended by this remark, but I continued. “Ok, let’s analyze this further.  Take Dexter Jackson for an example.  Who was better in the symmetry round Ronnie or Dexter?” They all replied, “Ronnie” (What a surprise!)

“You mean to tell me that Ronnie has a more balanced, pleasing, symmetrical physique, and was in better condition than Dexter?” I asked them. “Well, Ronnie was bigger!” Was their response. I just couldn’t stop myself. “Are you trying to tell me, that in the front, side and back relaxed poses, Ronnie looked better than Dexter?” Their answer was brief. “Ronnie was bigger”.
 
 
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  Re: European Flex, april 2004, Enough is enough
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2004, 11:52:48 AM »   

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“Was he aesthetically more pleasing, and in better condition than Dexter?” I asked. 
“No, but he was bigger!” They replied.
I refused to give up. “In the muscularity round, (each and every pose) if you proportionally compare Dexter’s 5’6” physique to Ronnie’s 5’11” height, and then consider shape, muscularity, separation, plus condition, etc.  Who would you choose and why”.
I can’t say that I was all that surprised by their explanation “Ronnie, because he is much bigger!”
“So, it appears to me that muscle size is still your major criteria”? I said. 
“No, that’s not exactly correct.  However, size is certainly a very important factor”. They replied.
On that note,  I responded.  “If Ronnie packs on another 20 pounds next year, would you allow him to beat his 2003 Mr. Olympia version? And what about the following year, if he added another 20 pounds?”
“Well, that might not be the case”. They answered.
“But, he would be bigger, wouldn’t he?” I stated.
“Yes” They answered.
Well, I hope they got my message!
Summary
Ronnie Coleman is absolutely phenomenal, and I really mean that.  I would also agree with all the experts who believe that he is the best bodybuilder of all time.  However, I don’t think he has the most aesthetic body of all time, but having said that, he certainly is the best (for IFBB pro judges) in bodybuilding.  When it comes to muscle mass, no one else comes even close. 
However, my parting thoughts are this.  If I could send a message to Ronnie and the IFBB judges, it would be. Enough is Enough!

Until the next time.

Milos.
 
 
 

polychronopolous

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2008, 05:39:41 PM »
Damn, Milos... How many websites do you need!?

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2008, 05:40:57 PM »
Ronnie 2003 was at among his all-time worse , his personal balance & proportion were at their all-time worse , his density & dryness while good for that size paled in comparison to 1998-2001 his detailed suffered as well , he looked 9 months pregnant , this version appeals to people who care about one thing and that's size


TrueGrit

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2008, 05:42:56 PM »
 Massive spam of cut and paste.
O

The_Hammer

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2008, 05:44:25 PM »
Milos,

Now that the era of mass monsters is over are you going to push harder than ever for a comeback?  If aesthetics are in then you have a shot at placing well in todays IFBB.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2008, 05:45:32 PM »
2003  ::)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2008, 05:51:24 PM »
old news

Desolate

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2008, 10:45:52 PM »
That is a quote from 1999, not 2003.

I have that issue of FLEX.

Buffgeek

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2008, 10:49:42 PM »
Milos what did you think of Wolfs package?

you guys need to work together again in 09....

I can already see his midsection slightly changing just like all of his current trainers other athletes have.

Desolate

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2008, 10:53:40 PM »
Needs to do something about his skin as well. Skin is awful. :-[

Nobody has Labrada-type skin anymore. :(

dogbowl

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2008, 10:54:48 PM »


ronnie's midsection is just awful.  

Vince B

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2008, 10:58:56 PM »
Everyone has plenty to say about the competitors but few ever challenge the qualifications and integrity of the judges.

To be honest, it surprises me that Dexter won with his small calves. Sorry, but his physique is incomplete. Phil had a better package and good calves.

FitChic78

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2008, 11:06:49 PM »
Vince,

Dex's win was well deserved. I've talked to a few pros over the weekend and they all agreed it was, considering that Blade is not the most liked BB amongst his own...but he had it all together this time. Just the right size and amount of muscle for his height, perfect symmetry and awesome conditioning, never fails! Phil needs to bring up his back some more and mainly chest. He did improve dramatically in a year but he needs some time for his muscle to mature to look like Dex's or Vic's...

Vince B

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2008, 11:17:03 PM »
This sport is a subjective one based on physical things that can be measured. In the past we had an ideal where neck, arms and calves were the same size. Arnold and Sergio and Larry changed the Reeves ideal so that the arms were a bit larger than the calves. However, the calves I see on Ronnie and Dexter are not in proportion to their arms and so they should not win the top titles. I am glad that Dexter finally got a win over the others but Jay is more proportioned than Dexter. I think the judges place too much importance on conditioning.

The huge thing that happened is that the judges have rewarded a different kind of physique more along the lines of former ideals of body beauty. For that I am pleased. There must be a lot of those guys who have damaged egos from the judging process.

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2008, 11:36:03 PM »
Everyone has plenty to say about the competitors but few ever challenge the qualifications and integrity of the judges.

To be honest, it surprises me that Dexter won with his small calves. Sorry, but his physique is incomplete. Phil had a better package and good calves.

vince my friend you know well that its your structure also,,,,heath has very narrow width you can see this if you were to point out dexters, who is also a friend of mine, calves as his only weakness then you need to point out heaths structure alone.  Heath who is 5'9" and dexter at 5'6" both do a most muscular heath should dominate due to his height and ability to add more size, but he does not domiante in most muscular for a small guy to make heath look who is taller and should be bigger look smaller is not right.  Calvces have never make it or break an olympian,,,its always back and complete look.  Give heath 2 more years and 15 to 20 more pounds with more hormones he will be the most complete Mr. O ever,,,you see,,,,,

Trev

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2008, 11:43:45 PM »
Great Post Milos. I sincerely hope that this is the change back to real bodybuilding.

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2008, 11:49:19 PM »
im 100% with Milos.

BB has gone too far in the wrong direction.

Dex has for years had a physique that has been the best, but not won.

Granted, he couldnt have beaten Ronnie when Ronnie had is going on- he had shape and size that overtook any level of perfect symmetry.

But for those brief 2 or 3 years, Dex has had the best package going around.

Sure, he has small imperfection in his calves, but they are hardly glaring and the rest of the body is statuesque, garnered with a shrink wrapped mid section.

Inspection of his only weakness shows that his calves arent too bad at all, and he sports a lower body thick with dense muscle and in proportion to his upper body which, although well balanced, is freaky enough in the right spots to deserve attention.

i for one have been calling for Dex to be mr.o for several years. I've been following this sport since the late 80s- when i first started training, and have continued to learn about it's history and evolution since- including reading everything i could get my hands on pre internet, and onwards.

Few have had Dex's quality of physique- arguably no one. I wont credit Flex Wheeler- ever, as perhaps im old school and that means if you got implants then you shouldnt be allowed to compete.

similarly if you have a noticeable muscle tear, or synthol, or protruding gut, then you shouldnt be awarded the highest prize.


NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2008, 12:16:07 AM »
That is a quote from 1999, not 2003.

I have that issue of FLEX.

Right !

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2008, 12:46:30 AM »
Everyone has plenty to say about the competitors but few ever challenge the qualifications and integrity of the judges.

To be honest, it surprises me that Dexter won with his small calves. Sorry, but his physique is incomplete. Phil had a better package and good calves.


Coleman had zero calves his whole career

SquatAss

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2008, 02:09:09 AM »
Coleman had zero calves his whole career

Well well aren't we turning into some Hulkster like defensism when a Dorian thread pops up.

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2008, 03:34:00 AM »
Milos call Wolf pronto, he needs you buddy.  Teh Chad is ruining him.

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2008, 04:32:39 AM »
Great Post Milos. I sincerely hope that this is the change back to real bodybuilding.

Exactly, this is the best reception I have ever seen for a Mr O winner, I think it is an excellent move for pro bb and was pleased to see him win.

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2008, 05:06:26 AM »
European Flex, april 2004, Enough is enough
« on: March 17, 2004, 11:50:58 AM »   



 Three IFBB Mr. Olympia judges agreed to be questioned by me on the European tour, after the 2003 Mr. Olympia.
 I simply could not stop myself from saying “In other words, muscle mass is your most important, if not, your only criteria?”

 “Ok, let’s analyze this further.  Take Dexter Jackson for an example.  Who was better in the symmetry round Ronnie or Dexter?” They all replied, “Ronnie” (What a surprise!)

“You mean to tell me that Ronnie has a more balanced, pleasing, symmetrical physique, and was in better condition than Dexter?” I asked them. “Well, Ronnie was bigger!” Was their response.

I just couldn’t stop myself. “Are you trying to tell me, that in the front, side and back relaxed poses, Ronnie looked better than Dexter?”

Their answer was brief. “Ronnie was bigger”.
 
Was he aesthetically more pleasing, and in better condition than Dexter?” I asked. 
“No, but he was bigger!” They replied.

“So, it appears to me that muscle size is still your major criteria”? I said. 
“No, that’s not exactly correct." 

Milos.
 
 



Awesome!

GJ Milos.

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Re: Dexter's victory is long overdue...IMHO - since Mr. O'03
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2008, 05:17:10 AM »
Turtle Power!!