Author Topic: actual early polling on the debate, not the online crap.  (Read 3339 times)

Buffgeek

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Re: actual early polling on the debate, not the online crap.
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2008, 11:56:43 PM »
good, the poor and the middle class and upper middle class do the brunt of the work in this world while fucking rich twits sit back and cash in with a few clicks of the keyboard....  They fucking should pay the goddamnded fucking taxes, we do the fucking work cock sucker ahhshkjashjkhsjkhkjahkjh kjaskdjfhkajhksdfhkjahks djfhkaksdfh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 :D

Huge honest question here. Do you feel in america that a Man (or woman) Can bust his ass, work harder and make more money than the guy next to him who doest just enough to get by?

or

do you believe that a man is born into a certain lifestyle that he cant escape no matter what he does. He is trapped in his socioeconimic lot and can do nothing to change it?


The reason I ask is a good portion of these sucessful people have busted their asses. They are self made through intelligence, hardwork, and determination.

It seems to me like a lot of liberals dont buy into the american dream.  The man is against you and everyone Owes you something because you deserve it!

Hugo Chavez

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Re: actual early polling on the debate, not the online crap.
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2008, 12:21:10 AM »
Huge honest question here. Do you feel in america that a Man (or woman) Can bust his ass, work harder and make more money than the guy next to him who does just enough to get by?

or

do you believe that a man is born into a certain lifestyle that he cant escape no matter what he does. He is trapped in his socioeconimic lot and can do nothing to change it?


The reason I ask is a good portion of these sucessful people have busted their asses. They are self made through intelligence, hardwork, and determination.

It seems to me like a lot of liberals dont buy into the american dream.  The man is against you and everyone Owes you something because you deserve it!
wrong question... Stop and think about what you just asked and see if it can be reworded.  I take your question serious, you seem like a good fella so lets play this out.  I think the question is worded wrong.

added: hole up, I see what you're asking and I'll work up a reply now.  I don't like the way the first part of your question is worded but I'll take it as error and assume the obvious.

Buffgeek

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Re: actual early polling on the debate, not the online crap.
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2008, 12:30:03 AM »
wrong question... Stop and think about what you just asked and see if it can be reworded.  I take your question serious, you seem like a good fella so lets play this out.  I think the question is worded wrong.

wrong question... Stop and think about what you just asked and see if it can be reworded.  I take your question serious, you seem like a good fella so lets play this out.  I think the question is worded wrong.

Damn sorry its late im getting sloppy tired. BTW I Used to game online a lot so am used to typing really fast and hoping people can interpret.  :-\

let me rephrase:

Do you feel in america that a man (or woman) can bust his ass and work harder to be more sucessful and make more money than the guy next to him who does just enough to get by?


or

Do you believe that a man is born into a certain lifestyle that he cant escape no matter what he does. He is trapped in his socioeconimic lot and can do nothing to change it?


The reason I ask is a good portion of these sucessful people have busted their asses. They are self made through intelligence, hardwork, and determination.

It seems to me like a lot of liberals dont buy into the american dream.  The man is against you and everyone Owes you something because you deserve it!

Buffgeek

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Re: actual early polling on the debate, not the online crap.
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2008, 12:31:37 AM »
5 years on here and I only had 87 posts before these past few weeks..... stupid Mr Olympia, stupid Election!  ;D

Hugo Chavez

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Re: actual early polling on the debate, not the online crap.
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2008, 12:33:47 AM »
Damn sorry its late im getting sloppy tired. BTW I Used to game online a lot so am used to typing really fast and hoping people can interpret.  :-\

let me rephrase:

Do you feel in america that a man (or woman) can bust his ass and work harder to be more sucessful and make more money than the guy next to him who does just enough to get by?


or

Do you believe that a man is born into a certain lifestyle that he cant escape no matter what he does. He is trapped in his socioeconimic lot and can do nothing to change it?


The reason I ask is a good portion of these sucessful people have busted their asses. They are self made through intelligence, hardwork, and determination.

It seems to me like a lot of liberals dont buy into the american dream.  The man is against you and everyone Owes you something because you deserve it!
sorry dude, I just added to my above post, go ahead and read it.  I know where you were going and got to wording a reply which I am typing now.  No problem, I just didn't like the first part of how your question was worded but I know where you were going.  i'll get my post typed up the rest of the way.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: actual early polling on the debate, not the online crap.
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2008, 04:35:38 AM »
Damn sorry its late im getting sloppy tired. BTW I Used to game online a lot so am used to typing really fast and hoping people can interpret.  :-\

let me rephrase:

Do you feel in america that a man (or woman) can bust his ass and work harder to be more sucessful and make more money than the guy next to him who does just enough to get by?


or

Do you believe that a man is born into a certain lifestyle that he cant escape no matter what he does. He is trapped in his socioeconimic lot and can do nothing to change it?


The reason I ask is a good portion of these sucessful people have busted their asses. They are self made through intelligence, hardwork, and determination.

It seems to me like a lot of liberals dont buy into the american dream.  The man is against you and everyone Owes you something because you deserve it!
To often all of America gets lumped into just a few categories--that is a colossal mistake.  So many different people, so many different stories…

There is no or should be no jealously for those who work hard and rise up to success.  In reality the greatest respect goes out from the left and right for those who do so.  It is the quintessential American Dream and all honor those who achieve it from a low place and all from a low place aspire to it at some point.

We say all are created equal, and that is true in some respects--but not all are given equal opportunity, which is very true. In today’s world we have people who are handed tremendous wealth from birth.  Raised never really having to worrying about finance. And then there is the vast majority of which only a small fraction will achieve what is handed to the fortunate from birth— so we are not created equal by fortune.  What portion of the unfortunate would have performed in life every bit as well if given a fortune at birth?

No doubt there have been much worse times in the history of America and especially world history for those born out of fortune.  We had decades where the hard working individual had a better shot than past times and one of the huge progresses enabling these years was the ability for workers to unionize.  To be able to demand a fair day’s wage for a day’s labor.  I know there are faults with this, but no less than the crimes found among big business and the wealthy for sure.

Today we are in a totally different time.  By all statistics the gap between the wealthy and poor is widening massively with a year by year measurable decrease in the middle class.  Failure of our government by route of lobbyists for corporations have all but nullified any power previously gained by workers.  With massive outsourcing, free passes for immigrant workers and the outright complete export of entire industries, an increasing number of the working class are quickly seeing the old days of not a shot in hell returning.     

Buffgeek

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Re: actual early polling on the debate, not the online crap.
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2008, 11:15:21 PM »
I see a lot of merit in what you said above and I dont competely disagree with you.

The reason I brought up the previous questions is that all around me I have seen men and women who have risen from nothing to become incredibly sucessful. My best friends father doesnt have a college degree, didnt finish high school, and yet makes over 250k a year as a professional speaker. My wifes step father never finished his degree and came from a poor family yet now runs an incredibly sucessful tourism marketing business. My good friends brother worked 3 jobs to help pay for medical school because his family was too poor to help and he couldnt get a scholarship (white kid..) I myself came from nothing moved out when I was 16, when to college, took out loans, and due to insasiable thirst for knowledge was able to go from a starting helpdesk to network engineer in two years at the beginning of my career.

These guys had a will to succeed. They werent handed anything on a silver platter. They didnt have the same opportunites that others had. The point is they made their own opportunites. So many rich kids squander what they have as well as kids with opportunity.

Look at my indian reservation; Every kid has free college provided they can maintain the grades, yet the vast majority of the kids that go to college live off reservation? Very few actually end up going beyond high school. These kids have opportunites that others would only dream of. The bar is set low. They are on an even playing field. Why do they not suceed?

Successful people often have high expectations for their offspring. I dont think its money that is the fortune that is missing from these kids lifes to make them sucessful. Its the expectation to succeed. That is what is missing. Sure money helps a great deal in many respects, but if we artificially give everyone the same thing then where is the incentive to succeed. What is the point of working harder when it will get you no where further than the guy not willing to work as hard?

My father in law is constantly ragged by his wifes liberal siblings becasuse he has a nice house and nice car and is sucessful. They are jealous because he had the guts and will to do what he has. They are by no means dumb, in fact they are incredibly intelligent people. They just feel that they are where they are and there is nothing that they can do about it. He was lucky and somehow he has what they should also have. THAT is the attitude I see so often. Its good fortune that got you to where you are. Not hard work.

24KT

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Re: actual early polling on the debate, not the online crap.
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2008, 01:15:55 AM »
mmm i drink 3 glasses of wine and I start arguing for mccain too :)

sober I argue for obama.

w

24KT

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Re: actual early polling on the debate, not the online crap.
« Reply #58 on: October 06, 2008, 01:22:36 AM »
are you serious?  what is with these piss breweries?  Coors is hardcore republican too.  Go figure the two worst beers by all accounts in the world.  I want to kick my tv in when I see some dipshit talking about the superior quality of cold brewed coors or bud... fucking piss puke water.  republican drinks.

Maybe you should try a bottle of Molson Canadian?   :)


w

Hugo Chavez

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Re: actual early polling on the debate, not the online crap.
« Reply #59 on: October 06, 2008, 11:37:43 AM »
Buffgeek, I would say the biggest part you missed about my post was time. 

Quote
Today we are in a totally different time.  By all statistics the gap between the wealthy and poor is widening massively with a year by year measurable decrease in the middle class.

It's not that people can't rise up.  nowhere did I allude to any such thing.  My issue is with a system of corporations and a government that works hand in hand directly againt the individual busting his ass.  The government is suppose to work for us but they work for the corporations and we're now last in line.

Statistics show the widening gap.  I do not mean to say people don't do it or that they can't.  I say that a system of the wealthy, corporations and government increasly work against both the middle class as well as the people just trying to get by.

The only think I want is a system that works for all Americans, not one that works against the vast majority in favor of a few.  no you probably can't ever have it perfect but I have no doubt what is in place today works against the little guy more now than anytime in the past 70 years.