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The True Adonis

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Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« on: October 03, 2008, 01:15:44 PM »
The Economist's poll of economists
Examining the candidates


Oct 2nd 2008 | WASHINGTON, DC

In our special report on the election we analyse the two candidates’ economic plans. Here, we ask professional economists to give us their views

Illustration by S. Kambayashi

AS THE financial crisis pushes the economy back to the top of voters’ concerns, Barack Obama is starting to open up a clear lead over John McCain in the opinion polls. But among those who study economics for a living, Mr Obama’s lead is much more commanding. A survey of academic economists by The Economist finds the majority—at times by overwhelming margins—believe Mr Obama has the superior economic plan, a firmer grasp of economics and will appoint better economic advisers.

Our survey is not, by any means, a scientific poll of all economists. We e-mailed a questionnaire to 683 research associates, all we could track down, of the National Bureau of Economic Research, America’s premier association of applied academic economists, though the NBER itself played no role in the survey. A total of 142 responded, of whom 46% identified themselves as Democrats, 10% as Republicans and 44% as neither. This skewed party breakdown may reflect academia’s Democratic tilt, or possibly Democrats’ greater propensity to respond. Still, even if we exclude respondents with a party identification, Mr Obama retains a strong edge—though the McCain campaign should be buoyed by the fact that 530 economists have signed a statement endorsing his plans.

Does their opinion matter? Economics is just one of the many things the next president will have to worry about; voters still seem to prefer Mr McCain on foreign policy. And even on the economy, economists may not have the same priorities as the population at large. Arguably, what a president says about economics on the campaign trail is less important than how he responds to the unexpected challenges that inevitably arise once he is in office.

Yet economists’ opinions should count for something because irrespective of any party affiliation, most of them approach policy decisions with the same basic tool kit. Their assessment of the candidates’ economic credentials and plans represents an informed judgment on how well they will handle difficult trade-offs between efficiency, equity, growth and consensus-building.

Regardless of party affiliation, our respondents generally agree the economy is in bad shape, that the election is important to the course of economic policy and that the housing and financial crisis is the most critical economic issue facing America.

The detailed responses are bad news for Mr McCain (the full data are available here). Eighty per cent of respondents and no fewer than 71% of those who do not cleave to either main party say Mr Obama has a better grasp of economics. Even among Republicans Mr Obama has the edge: 46% versus 23% say Mr Obama has the better grasp of the subject. “I take McCain’s word on this one,” comments James Harrigan at the University of Virginia, a reference to Mr McCain’s infamous confession that he does not know as much about economics as he should. In fairness, Mr McCain’s lower grade may in part reflect greater candour about his weaknesses. Mr Obama’s more tightly managed image leaves fewer opportunities for such unvarnished introspection.

A candidate’s economic expertise may matter rather less if he surrounds himself with clever advisers. Unfortunately for Mr McCain, 81% of all respondents reckon Mr Obama is more likely to do that; among unaffiliated respondents, 71% say so. That is despite praise across party lines for the excellent Doug Holtz-Eakin, Mr McCain’s most prominent economic adviser and a former head of the Congressional Budget Office. “Although I have tended to vote Republican,” one reply says, “the Democrats have a deep pool of talented, moderate economists.”

There is an apparent contradiction between most economists’ support for free trade, low taxes and less intervention in the market and the low marks many give to Mr McCain, who is generally more supportive of those things than Mr Obama. It probably reflects a perception that the Republican Party under George Bush has subverted many of those ideals for ideology and political gain. Indeed, the majority of respondents rate Mr Bush’s economic record as very bad, and Republican respondents are only slightly less critical.

“John McCain has professed disdain for ‘so-called economists’, and for some the feeling has become mutual,” says Erik Brynjolfsson, a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Sloan School of Management. “Obama’s team is mainstream and non-ideological but extremely talented.”

On our one-to-five scale, economists on average give Mr Obama’s economic programme a 3.3 and Mr McCain’s a 2.2. Mr Obama, says Jonathan Parker, a non-aligned professor at Northwestern’s Kellogg School of Management, “is a pragmatist not an ideologue. I expect Clintonian economic policies.” If, that is, crushing federal debt does not derail his taxing and spending plans.

On his plans to fix the financial crisis, Mr Obama averages 3.1, a point higher than Mr McCain. Still, some said they didn’t quite know what they were rating—reasonably enough, since neither candidate has produced clear plans of his own.

Where the candidates’ positions are more clearly articulated, Mr Obama scores better on nearly every issue: promoting fiscal discipline, energy policy, reducing the number of people without health insurance, controlling health-care costs, reforming financial regulation and boosting long-run economic growth. Twice as many economists think Mr McCain’s plan would be bad or very bad for long-run growth as Mr Obama’s. Given how much focus Mr McCain has put on his plan’s benefits for growth, this last is quite a repudiation.

Mr McCain gets his highest mark, an average of 3.5 and a clear advantage over Mr Obama, for his position on free trade and globalisation. If Mr Obama “would wake up on free trade”, one respondent says, “I could get behind the plans much more.” Perhaps surprisingly, the economists rated trade low in priority compared with the other issues listed. Only 53% say it is important or very important. Neither candidate scored at all well on dealing with the burgeoning cost of entitlements such as Medicare and Social Security.

The economists also prefer Mr Obama’s tax plans. Republicans and respondents who do not identify with either political party see Mr McCain’s tax policies as more efficient but less equitable. But the former prefer Mr McCain’s plans—43% of Republicans say they are good or very good—and the latter Mr Obama’s. Of non-affiliated respondents, 31% say Mr Obama’s are good or very good.

Either way, according to the economists, it would be difficult to do much worse than George Bush. The respondents give Mr Bush a dismal average of 1.7 on our five-point scale for his economic management. Eighty-two per cent thought Mr Bush’s record was bad or very bad; only 1% thought it was very good.

The Democrats were overwhelmingly negative, but nearly every respondent viewed Mr Bush’s record unfavourably. Half of Republican respondents thought Mr Bush deserves only a 2. “The minimum rating of one severely overestimates the quality of Bush’s economic policies,” says one non-aligned economist.

This is the fourth presidential election in which The Economist has surveyed economists on the candidates and their plans. Responses, anonymous except where requested, were received between September 18th and 30th. For full results see article.



JOHN MATRIX

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2008, 02:44:50 PM »
intelligent people OVERWHELMINGLY support the obama/biden ticket

Bast000

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2008, 02:46:17 PM »
i am sending my voter registration today to vote for him

Necrosis

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2008, 02:49:17 PM »
stupid people and christians like mccain. Gotta love jeebus.

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2008, 02:50:57 PM »
stupid people and christians like mccain. Gotta love jeebus.

they should all have been aborted :)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2010, 01:41:32 PM »
BUMP 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2011, 07:43:06 PM »
Bump. 

The True Adonis

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Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2011, 07:49:47 PM »
???

Another bullshit campaign piece shot to shit by reality.   

The True Adonis

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2011, 07:51:26 PM »
Another bullshit campaign piece shot to shit by reality.   
I sure made out well so I can`t complain.  ;D

tonymctones

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2011, 08:07:51 PM »
I sure made out well so I can`t complain.  ;D
are you a welfare recipient?

b.c other than that your idiot ass didnt make out with anything...

The True Adonis

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2011, 08:23:12 PM »
are you a welfare recipient?

b.c other than that your idiot ass didnt make out with anything...
Unless you want to factor in land, property and stocks.  I am living like a king and enjoying every minute of it.  Shall we compare McTones?

tonymctones

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2011, 08:27:25 PM »
Unless you want to factor in land, property and stocks.  I am living like a king and enjoying every minute of it.  Shall we compare McTones?
LOL lets...

still waiting on you to let me know that youve got Ron to approve our other bet ;)

The True Adonis

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2011, 08:34:20 PM »
LOL lets...

still waiting on you to let me know that youve got Ron to approve our other bet ;)
Lets start with house.  How about that?

tonymctones

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2011, 08:36:30 PM »
Lets start with house.  How about that?
certainly sir...

can we move onto the gravity suit and the 225 for 112 after that? LMFAO

The True Adonis

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2011, 08:43:26 PM »
certainly sir...

can we move onto the gravity suit and the 225 for 112 after that? LMFAO
By all means, what kind of property do you own?

tonymctones

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2011, 08:51:37 PM »
By all means, what kind of property do you own?
ohhh were doing the false claims game again?

hmm well lets see then, I own a 2000 acre ranch in west Tx we have white tail, mulies and exotics.

I own a 5000 sq foot house here in Houston, that sits on 3 acres.

I also own a small lake house, on the comal in new braunfels...nothing special just a place to go on the weekends and relax.

now you can say thats nothing spout off some bullshit that you will never prove and continue to be the gimmick that you are ;)

The True Adonis

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2011, 08:55:54 PM »
ohhh were doing the false claims game again?

hmm well lets see then, I own a 2000 acre ranch in west Tx we have white tail, mulies and exotics.

I own a 5000 sq foot house here in Houston, that sits on 3 acres.

I also own a small lake house, on the comal in new braunfels...nothing special just a place to go on the weekends and relax.

now you can say thats nothing spout off some bullshit that you will never prove and continue to be the gimmick that you are ;)
I knew you couldn`t comply.  Maybe in a few years you will have a place you can call your own.  Let me know when you get there. 

PS. Renting does not count.

tonymctones

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2011, 09:08:39 PM »
I knew you couldn`t comply.  Maybe in a few years you will have a place you can call your own.  Let me know when you get there. 

PS. Renting does not count.
LOL so you got nothing as usual?

ps saying something doesnt make it so...;) 225x112 with a gravity suit

wealthy to do trust fund baby and chief/furniture maker...LMFAO

have you proven anything youve ever claimed on here?

The True Adonis

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2011, 09:20:15 PM »
LOL so you got nothing as usual?

ps saying something doesnt make it so...;) 225x112 with a gravity suit

wealthy to do trust fund baby and chief/furniture maker...LMFAO

have you proven anything youve ever claimed on here?
Where are the pics?

tonymctones

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2011, 09:23:21 PM »
Where are the pics?
LOL pics of what? houses? judo championship?

225x112? gravity suit?

what pics are you referring to?

did you ever ask ron to ban the one who doesnt come through with our bet?


The True Adonis

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2011, 09:30:38 PM »
LOL pics of what? houses? judo championship?

225x112? gravity suit?

what pics are you referring to?

did you ever ask ron to ban the one who doesnt come through with our bet?


We were going to start with house I thought, but if you don`t own anything, there is no sense in furthering this discussion, now is there? 

Its fine if you don`t own anything right now, but my advice to you would be BUY NOW before the market comes up.  You will never get a second chance at this, housing prices being so low and all.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2011, 09:30:43 PM »
Don't be so hard on Adam, didn't he mention that he worked once with his buddies dad on what he described as the rock smashing thingy machine?

Anyway, I enjoy a differing opinion on things so why don't we just stick to facts instead of the adolesent comparison games.

Do you still believe that the article is correct TA?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2011, 03:04:55 AM »
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The Coming Economic Hell For American Families
Benzinga ^ | June 8, 2011 | Michael Snyder
Posted on June 8, 2011 2:51:03 AM EDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Tens of millions of American families are about to go through economic hell and most of them don't even realize it. Most Americans don't spend a whole lot of time thinking about things like "monetary policy" or "economic cycles". The vast majority of people just want to be able to get up in the morning, go to work and provide for their families. Most Americans realize that things seem "harder" these days, but most of them also have faith that things will eventually get better. Unfortunately, things aren't going to get any better. The number of good jobs continues to decline, the number of Americans losing their homes continues to go up, people are having a much more difficult time paying their bills and our federal government is drowning in debt. Sadly, this is only just the beginning.

Since the financial collapse of 2008, the Federal Reserve and the U.S. government have taken unprecedented steps to stimulate the economy. But even with all of those efforts, we are still living in an economic wasteland.

So what is going to happen when the next wave of the economic crisis hits?

During one recent interview, Peter Schiff made the following statement....

If you look at the economic relapse that's going on right now, look at Friday's abysmal job numbers, look at the housing numbers, understand that all of this is taking place with record monetary and fiscal stimulus. What happens if we remove those supports?

At the end of June, the Federal Reserve's quantitative easing program is slated to end. The U.S. Congress and state legislatures from coast to coast are talking about budget cuts. The amount of borrowing and spending that has been going on is clearly unsustainable, but will the U.S. economy start shrinking again once the current "financial sugar high" has worn off?

Already, all sorts of bad economic news has been coming out and all kinds of economic indicators are turning south. The American people are becoming increasingly restless. One new poll has found that 59 percent of the American people disapprove of Barack Obama's handling of the economy (which is a new high). According to another recent poll, 63% of Americans say that they feel "not good" or "bad" about how the U.S. economy is performing.

If most Americans had good jobs, could afford their mortgages and could pay their bills, the economy would not be such a big issue.

Unfortunately, times are really tough for American families right now and they are about to get a lot tougher.

*Jobs*

The official unemployment rate just went up to 9.1 percent, but that figure only tells part of the picture.

There are some areas of the country where it seems nearly impossible to find a decent job. Millions of Americans have fallen into depression as they find themselves unable to provide for their families.

According to CBS News, 45.1 percent of all unemployed Americans have been out of work for at least six months. That is a higher percentage than at any point during the Great Depression.

Just two years ago, the number of "long-term unemployed" in the United States was only 2.6 million. Today, that number is up to 6.2 million.

Can you imagine being out of work for 6 months or more?

How would you survive?

Just look at the chart below. What we are going through now is really unprecedented. The average duration of unemployment in this country is now close to 40 weeks....



So will things get any better soon? Well, there were only about 3 million job openings in the United States during the month of April. Normally there should be about 4.5 million job openings. The economy is slowing down once again. Good jobs are going to become even more rare.

There are millions of other Americans that are "underemployed". All over the United States you will find hard working Americans that are flipping burgers or working in retail stores because that is all they can get right now.

Most temp jobs and most part-time jobs don't pay enough to be able to provide for a family. But there are not nearly enough full-time jobs for everyone.

Sadly, the number of "middle class jobs" is about 10 percent lower than a decade ago. There are simply less tickets to the "good life" than there used to be.

*Homes*

But without good jobs, the American people cannot afford to buy homes.

Without good jobs, the American people cannot even afford the homes that they are in now.

U.S. home prices have fallen 33 percent since the peak of the housing bubble. That is more than they fell during the Great Depression.

This decline in housing prices has caused a lot of problems.

28 percent of all homes with a mortgage in the United States are in negative equity at this point. There are millions of American families that are now paying on mortgages that are for far more than their homes are worth.

Millions of American families literally feel trapped in their homes. They can't afford to sell their homes, and if they simply walk away nobody will approve them for new home loans for many years to come.

Many Americans are sticking it out and are staying in their homes until they simply can't pay for them anymore.

As the number of good jobs continues to decline, the number of Americans that are losing their homes continues to rise.

For the first time ever, more than a million U.S. families lost their homes to foreclosure in a single year during 2010.

If the economy slows down once again and millions more Americans lose their jobs this problem is going to get a lot worse.

*Bills*

Even if they aren't losing their homes yet, millions of other Americans families are finding it increasingly difficult to pay the bills.

Wages have been very flat over the past few years and yet the cost of most of the basics just seems to keep going up and up.

According to Brent Meyer, a senior economic analyst at the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland, the cost of food and the cost of energy have risen at an annualized rate of 17 percent over the past six months.

Have your wages gone up by 17 percent over the past six months?

As 2009 began, the average price of a gallon of gasoline in the United States was $1.83. Today it is $3.77.

American families are finding that their paychecks are going a lot less farther than they used to, but Ben Bernanke keeps insisting that we have very little inflation in 2011.

Most Americans don't care much about economic statistics - they just want to be able to do basic things like take their children to the doctor.

According to one recent survey, 26 percent of Americans have put off doctor visits because of the economy.

Sadly, soon a lot more American families will not be able to afford to go to the doctor.

According to one recent survey, 30 percent of all U.S. employers will "definitely or probably" quit offering employer-sponsored health coverage once Obamacare is fully implemented in 2014.

As the economic situation has unraveled, an increasing number of people are being forced to turn to the federal government for assistance.

One out of every six Americans is now enrolled in at least one anti-poverty program run by the federal government.

Some of the hardest hit members of our society have been our children. Today, one out of every four American children is on food stamps.

Back in the old days, a large percentage of American families were self-sufficient, but that is no longer the case.

Back in 1850, approximately 50 percent of all Americans worked on farms.

Today, less than 2 percent of Americans do.

So these days when American families can't feed themselves what do they do?

They turn to the federal government of course.

At the moment, approximately 44 million Americans are on food stamps.

But our federal government cannot afford to spend money like this forever.

According to a recent USA Today analysis, the U.S. federal government took on $5.3 trillion in new financial obligations during 2010. USA Today says that the U.S. government now has $61.6 trillion in financial obligations that have not been paid for yet.

Wow!

Who is going to end up paying that bill?

So with so much bad news, are our leaders alarmed?

Not really.

According to Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, "growth seems likely to pick up somewhat in the second half of the year."

Yeah, we'll see how that prediction works out.

Others are not so sure that everything is going to turn out okay.

Recently, James Carville warned that we could literally see rioting in the streets if the economic situation does not turn around soon. Just check out the last part of the video below....

(VIDEO AT LINK)

The truth is that America is in decline. Just like with all of the great empires of the past, our empire is starting to crumble too.

A recent article in the Guardian touched on some of the reasons for America's decline....

The experience of both Rome and Britain suggests that it is hard to stop the rot once it has set in, so here are the a few of the warning signs of trouble ahead: military overstretch, a widening gulf between rich and poor, a hollowed-out economy, citizens using debt to live beyond their means, and once-effective policies no longer working. The high levels of violent crime, epidemic of obesity, addiction to pornography and excessive use of energy may be telling us something: the US is in an advanced state of cultural decadence.

The economic news is only part of the puzzle. This country has rejected the ancient wisdom that was passed down to us and we have rejected the principles of our founding fathers.

We have piled up the biggest mountain of debt in the history of the world and yet somehow we expected that everything would turn out okay.

Well, everything is not going to turn out okay.

All of this debt is going to come down on us like a ton of bricks and the U.S. economy is going to continue to fall apart. Millions of American families are going to lose their jobs and their homes.

Economic hell is coming.

You better get ready.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's Plan OVERWHELMINGLY Supported By Economists
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2011, 03:08:03 AM »
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Obama's Egghead Economic Saboteurs
Townhall.com ^ | June 8, 2011 | Michelle Malkin
Posted on June 8, 2011 5:58:16 AM EDT by Kaslin

Official motto of the White House economic team: Those who can, do. Those who can't, fantasize in the classroom, fail in Washington and then return to the Ivy Tower to train the next generation of egghead economic saboteurs. Life is good for left-wing academics. Everyone else pays dearly.

Take Austan Goolsbee, please. President Obama's "fresh-faced" University of Chicago econ professor arrived in Washington in December 2008 to fill two slots: chief economist/staff director of the president's Economic Recovery Advisory Board and member of the Council of Economic Advisers. In September 2010, he replaced CEA head and fellow academic Christina Romer, who retreated to the University of California at Berkeley last August when unemployment hit 9.5 percent. (She infamously projected that the Obama stimulus would hold the jobless rate below 8 percent.)

Goolsbee's primary task: translating all of the administration's big-government theories for us dummies. As Goolsbee put it to his university's student newspaper: "We've certainly seen in previous crises that it's quite important to explain things to non-experts. The American people can confront any challenge if they're comfortable with the approach."

And what exactly was the nature of Goolsbee's vaunted expertise? Making money as a business rescue-and-recovery expert without ever having had to meet a payroll.

Goolsbee, the 15th wealthiest member of the Obama administration, has raked in assets valued at between $1,146,000 and $2,715,000. He also pulled in a University of Chicago salary of $465,000 and additional wages and honoraria worth $93,000, according to Washingtonian magazine. As I've noted before, the government research fellow and Obama campaign adviser was a champion of extending credit to the un-creditworthy. In a 2007 op-ed for The New York Times, he derided those who called subprime mortgages "irresponsible." He preferred to describe them as "innovations in the mortgage market" to expand the pool of homebuyers.

Goolsbee's most recent "innovation": the "White House White Board," a weekly video lecture teaching everyone else how to hitch what remains of America's free-market system to the wagon of the state and how much (or rather, how little) we should make doing it. He illustrated his grand interventionist strategy to pick and choose "Startup America" winners by drawing a trough of broken light bulbs (symbolizing entrepreneurial ideas) piling up in a "Valley of Death" because they lacked government support.

A comical choice of imagery given the Democrats' enviro-nutty ban on incandescent bulbs. But I digress.

When Goolsbee joined Team Obama, the unemployment rate was at around 6 percent. When he announced his resignation on Monday, the jobless rate stood at 9.1 percent. Romer and Jared Bernstein (former chief economist to Vice President Joe Biden) had predicted unemployment would drop every single month after August 2009 due to the Obama stimulus. Bernstein bailed on the administration in April 2011 for the sanctuary of a liberal think-tank. He'll also now ply his failed wares as a financial pundit.

These hapless command-and-control ideologues were preceded by Peter Orszag, who hung his "Mission Accomplished" banner over the White House budget office in June 2010 after fewer than two years on the job, and by former National Economic Council head and hedge fund manager Larry Summers, who was caught sleeping on the job -- literally -- more than once during his brief tenure. Summers packed his bags in September. He was followed by Princeton economics professor and former top Obama Treasury Department official Alan Krueger in October 2010.

White House aides have lamented that the economic team is "exhausted." Apparently, Obama is tired of hearing from them, too. The Hill newspaper reports that he has stopped receiving daily economic briefings that were once treated with the same emergency status as national security briefings. So, the central planners continue to be paid to fail -- while their boss looks the other way at the destruction, whistling into what he calls America's temporary "head winds."