Author Topic: Will today be the massive crash?  (Read 1920 times)

Hugo Chavez

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Will today be the massive crash?
« on: October 08, 2008, 01:27:22 AM »
It's not looking good, I think today might be the big one.  Thoughts? 

If it happens, will we see Bush's Martial Law?

http://www.inteldaily.com/?c=173&a=3589
Quote
Bush now has the ability to declare martial law at his own discretion, and in so doing dissolve the other branches of government, throw out the constitution, and suspend elections. He appropriated the right to do this largely by executive order. He can declare martial law whenever he deems there is sufficient cause; cause being an act of terrorism, an economic crisis, an act of war, civil unrest, or a natural catastrophe.


Maybe even see the net shut down, all information delivered through the corporate media.  Lefties, watch your asses if this happens. 

2ND COMING

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2008, 01:45:51 AM »
i dont know, that would be a HHUUUUGEE step in the wrong direction

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2008, 01:49:40 AM »
i dont know, that would be a HHUUUUGEE step in the wrong direction
We're talking about Bush :D  It's just a bigger step in the same direction for him lol...

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2008, 01:58:49 AM »
We're talking about Bush :D  It's just a bigger step in the same direction for him lol...

i just dont see how he could do it single handed

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2008, 02:36:02 AM »
i just dont see how he could do it single handed
he gave himself the power to do so last year. NSPD-51 Both the right and left bitched about this one. 

It give Bush extraordinary powers and the ability to call martial law and be essentially a dictator over all branches of government in case of a catastrophic emergency.  One of the listed catastrophic emergencies is "economic"

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_bhwhite_071026_nspd_51_and_the_pote.htm
http://www.slate.com/id/2176185/

even that idiot Corsi hates it:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55824

Posted for the righties that will only listen to a righty, this is Corsi on it:

President Bush, without so much as issuing a press statement, on May 9 signed a directive that granted near dictatorial powers to the office of the president in the event of a national emergency declared by the president.

The "National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive," with the dual designation of NSPD-51, as a National Security Presidential Directive, and HSPD-20, as a Homeland Security Presidential Directive, establishes under the office of president a new National Continuity Coordinator.

That job, as the document describes, is to make plans for "National Essential Functions" of all federal, state, local, territorial, and tribal governments, as well as private sector organizations to continue functioning under the president's directives in the event of a national emergency.

The directive loosely defines "catastrophic emergency" as "any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions."

When the president determines a catastrophic emergency has occurred, the president can take over all government functions and direct all private sector activities to ensure we will emerge from the emergency with an "enduring constitutional government."

Translated into layman's terms, when the president determines a national emergency has occurred, the president can declare to the office of the presidency powers usually assumed by dictators to direct any and all government and business activities until the emergency is declared over.

Ironically, the directive sees no contradiction in the assumption of dictatorial powers by the president with the goal of maintaining constitutional continuity through an emergency.

The directive specifies that the assistant to the president for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism will be designated as the National Continuity Coordinator.

Further established is a Continuity Policy Coordination Committee, chaired by a senior director from the Homeland Security Council staff, designated by the National Continuity Coordinator, to be "the main day-to-day forum for such policy coordination."

Currently, the assistant to the president for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism is Frances Fragos Townsend.

Townsend spent 13 years at the Justice Department before moving to the U.S. Coast Guard where she served as assistant commandant for intelligence.

She is a White House staff member in the executive office of the president who also chairs the Homeland Security Council, which as a counterpart to the National Security Council reports directly to the president.

The directive issued May 9 makes no attempt to reconcile the powers created there for the National Continuity Coordinator with the National Emergency Act. As specified by U.S. Code Title 50, Chapter 34, Subchapter II, Section 1621, the National Emergency Act allows that the president may declare a national emergency but requires that such proclamation "shall immediately be transmitted to the Congress and published in the Federal Register."

A Congressional Research Service study notes that under the National Emergency Act, the president "may seize property, organize and control the means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, institute martial law, seize and control all transportation and communication, regulate the operation of private enterprise, restrict travel, and, in a variety of ways, control the lives of United States citizens."

The CRS study notes that the National Emergency Act sets up congress as a balance empowered to "modify, rescind, or render dormant such delegated emergency authority," if Congress believes the president has acted inappropriately.

NSPD-51/ HSPD-20 appears to supersede the National Emergency Act by creating the new position of National Continuity Coordinator without any specific act of Congress authorizing the position.

NSPD-51/ HSPD-20 also makes no reference whatsoever to Congress. The language of the May 9 directive appears to negate any a requirement that the president submit to Congress a determination that a national emergency exists, suggesting instead that the powers of the executive order can be implemented without any congressional approval or oversight.


Homeland Security spokesperson Russ Knocke affirmed that the Homeland Security Department will be implementing the requirements of NSPD-51/ HSPD-20 under Townsend's direction.


Hereford

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2008, 10:27:27 AM »
Don't worry Hugo. If things go to hell your type will still be protected by conservatives (cops, soldiers, etc) from the ones in this society that you covet and go to battle for politically (inner-city types, the poor and downtrodden, etc).   :D

If things fall apart, Sure as shit the government better step in and lock things down before the ne'er-do-wells get loose and permanently destroy everything. Rest assured, 'Marshal Law' is an ideal that was coined to deal with the inevitible lawlessness that takes place in the cities whenever anything out of the ordinary happens.

When an event like Katrina, LA 1992, etc takes place... I want to see the National Guard in there keeping order. None of this bullshit that happened in 92. The only thing these people respect is brute force. There are hundreds of thousands of bottom-feeders in the US that are just WAITING for any breakdown in law and order so they can go batshit.

Dos Equis

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2008, 10:51:04 AM »
Executive orders are still subject to review by the judiciary. 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2008, 01:35:45 PM »
Executive orders are still subject to review by the judiciary. 
that's debateble, many are saying not according to the executive order.  Even if so, I don't much like the idea that the only thing that stands between us and a dictatorship are a few mummies.

Dos Equis

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2008, 01:45:03 PM »
that's debateble, many are saying not according to the executive order.  Even if so, I don't much like the idea that the only thing that stands between us and a dictatorship are a few mummies.

If an executive order has the effect of a law, the law can always be reviewed by the courts.  That's not really debatable.  How the court would rule is debatable. 

We are miles away from a dictatorship, even with the mummies there to perform their "check." 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2008, 01:46:59 PM »
If an executive order has the effect of a law, the law can always be reviewed by the courts.  That's not really debatable.  How the court would rule is debatable. 

We are miles away from a dictatorship, even with the mummies there to perform their "check." 

Don't bet your life on it

Dos Equis

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2008, 01:48:24 PM »
Don't bet your life on it

I wouldn't. 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2008, 02:13:40 PM »
BB, you better have a look at this:

NSPD-51 says: "Enduring Constitutional Government means a cooperative effort among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the Federal Government, coordinated by the President, as a matter of comity"

Comity: "The principle by which the courts of one jurisdiction may accede or give effect to the laws or decisions of another."

"By the president as a matter of comity" gives him jurisdiction over the courts in a time of national emergency.  The time for the courts to do something about NSPD-51 is now, not when it's used.

Dos Equis

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2008, 02:22:59 PM »
BB, you better have a look at this:

NSPD-51 says: "Enduring Constitutional Government means a cooperative effort among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the Federal Government, coordinated by the President, as a matter of comity"

Comity: "The principle by which the courts of one jurisdiction may accede or give effect to the laws or decisions of another."

"By the president as a matter of comity" gives him jurisdiction over the courts in a time of national emergency.  The time for the courts to do something about NSPD-51 is now, not when it's used.

I don't think the president can eliminate checks and balances by executive order, including language that arguably gives him the authority to do whatever he wants.  I think the only way that can happen is if we change the Constitution.

Plus the people wouldn't stand for it.     

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2008, 02:30:18 PM »
I don't think the president can eliminate checks and balances by executive order, including language that arguably gives him the authority to do whatever he wants.  I think the only way that can happen is if we change the Constitution.

Plus the people wouldn't stand for it.     
1st, doesn't matter what you think, Bush signed it and it's now uncontested law.  2nd what do you mean people won't stand for it?  There are no shortage of guys like Hereford above that would cheer it.  If it's enacted under conditions that piss off guys like Hereford, they'll be behind the president 100% and not give the ramifications a second thought.

Dos Equis

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2008, 02:42:12 PM »
1st, doesn't matter what you think, Bush signed it and it's now uncontested law.  2nd what do you mean people won't stand for it?  There are no shortage of guys like Hereford above that would cheer it.  If it's enacted under conditions that piss off guys like Hereford, they'll be behind the president 100% and not give the ramifications a second thought.

It matters what I think because it's my opinion.  Every law is "uncontested" until it's contested.  That's the whole point.

Let's play this martial law/dictatorship scenario out:

- The president would have to take control based on an executive order.
- Congress would have to do nothing, i.e., not pass a law and override a veto.
- The courts would have to do nothing, i.e., there would be no judicial review. 
- The Joint Chiefs would have to agree. 
- The military commanders would have to agree.
- The soldiers all the way down the chain of command would have to follow orders.
- The governors who command the national guards would have to agree. 
- The national guard commanders would have to agree.
- The mayors and police chiefs would have to agree.
- The "well regulated Militia," i.e., all you gun-toting folks, would have to do nothing. 

That's what I mean when I say the people wouldn't stand for it.  There is no way everyone rolls over lets the president assume control of the country and with no oversight. 

 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2008, 05:07:25 PM »
It matters what I think because it's my opinion.  Every law is "uncontested" until it's contested.  That's the whole point.

Let's play this martial law/dictatorship scenario out:

- The president would have to take control based on an executive order.
- Congress would have to do nothing, i.e., not pass a law and override a veto.
- The courts would have to do nothing, i.e., there would be no judicial review. 
- The Joint Chiefs would have to agree. 
- The military commanders would have to agree.
- The soldiers all the way down the chain of command would have to follow orders.
- The governors who command the national guards would have to agree. 
- The national guard commanders would have to agree.
- The mayors and police chiefs would have to agree.
- The "well regulated Militia," i.e., all you gun-toting folks, would have to do nothing. 

That's what I mean when I say the people wouldn't stand for it.  There is no way everyone rolls over lets the president assume control of the country and with no oversight. 

 
How do you think stuff like this happens?  President doesn't just come out wearing a strange uniform and declair himself dictator... The innitial days will be via a cheering catalyst of some sort.  The president will be cheered and the few who oppose the actions will be labeled.  People like you will actually side with the president.  Once we're down the path, it'll be to late.

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2008, 05:21:42 PM »
I can actually see it happen. I mean the media is totally shut and unwilling to report the truth unless it's someone else's. The military is... well, the military: If you tell them to shoot themselves in the head because the country requires them to do so, they'd most likely comply. The economic elites would love it because a well-policed state does not pose a threat to their goals, in fact it protects them.

If done I'd say it'd be because the powers-that-be sense the "empire" going down the drain more than due to an economic collapse.

If it happens the first thing I'd do is head for Canada.

Dos Equis

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2008, 05:26:07 PM »
How do you think stuff like this happens?  President doesn't just come out wearing a strange uniform and declair himself dictator... The innitial days will be via a cheering catalyst of some sort.  The president will be cheered and the few who oppose the actions will be labeled.  People like you will actually side with the president.  Once we're down the path, it'll be to late.

The president is not going to secretly or gradually become a dictator.  He can't.  He can't just declare himself king.  Too many hoops.  Too many people involved (as I pointed out already).  But you go ahead with the made-up scenario, including my agreement with a completely unrealistic possible future event.    

Let me know when this gets beyond a bad Hollywood script.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2008, 05:32:17 PM »
There will be a crash. Tomarrow? The day after that? Doesnt matter, it is inevitable, it will happen.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2008, 05:33:31 PM »
Example: economic collapse around the world, people starving, increased riots, deadlocked governments, bankrupt governments, massive calls for someone to do something...  Oh yes he can and he would be cheered for it at first.

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2008, 05:36:09 PM »
Example: economic collapse around the world, people starving, increased riots, deadlocked governments, bankrupt governments, massive calls for someone to do something...  Oh yes he can and he would be cheered for it at first.

You don't pull $3 trillion out of your ass in a couple of months and expect nothing negative is going to happen. Their cure is worse than poison.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2008, 05:36:53 PM »
There will be a crash. Tomarrow? The day after that? Doesnt matter, it is inevitable and it will happen.
seems like it's going to be a day by day thing.  If the last couple weeks happened in one day OMG...  We have another week of it dropping 200 to 500 points per day, booom....

Dos Equis

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2008, 05:47:10 PM »
You don't pull $3 trillion out of your ass in a couple of months and expect nothing negative is going to happen. Their cure is worse than poison.

True.  Bad news. 

Buffgeek

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2008, 07:48:56 PM »
un regulated capitialism has failed.   The trickle down never happened....the elites just took the money overseas to hire people to work for less.  And our goverment spent trillions on a war with the wrong country......what a mess this is going to be.

Unregulated my ass. Government stepped in and made all those banks give risky loans to low income households. Goverment interference is a huge part of this.

Also I am not saying we should have went nor am I downplaying the amount we have spent, but I think we are up to 700B in Iraq.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Will today be the massive crash?
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2008, 07:51:47 PM »
Unregulated my ass. Government stepped in and made all those banks give risky loans to low income households. Goverment interference is a huge part of this.

Also I am not saying we should have went nor am I downplaying the amount we have spent, but I think we are up to 700B in Iraq.
for the last time, there are good and there are bad regulations.  He is right, the good regulations were laxed, not enforced or taken down.