Death and Dying

[Dos Equis]

Ever been seriously sick? Just curious.

Nope.  I might catch one cold a year. 

[wavelength]

Nope.  I might catch one cold a year.

I was invincible once. How old are you?

[Dos Equis]

I was invincible once. How old are you?

      Not invincible.  I just take good care of myself.  Except for that very dangerous game of softball. . . .     

[The ChemistV2]

As I write this, I know I will be flamed and disbelieved. I have no reason to lie, I couldn't care less about changing anyone's opinion. I have never been a religious person, nor am I now. I was always skeptical that there was life after death, but was open to the possibility. Last year, the closest person in my life, someone I dated for 5 years when I was 18, and then remained extremely close for many years after, came down with stomach cancer last year. She died 3 months after being diagnosed and I spent virtually every day with her. We have promised we would try to communicate after she was gone. I read some books on EVP, electronic voice phenomenon and how people had supposedly picked up voices of the dead on recording devices. One day, I succeeded in picking up her voice, very clearly on my tape recorder, responding to me. Her sister confirmed to me that it was her voice and the EVP society analyzed my tape and saw that the soundwave pattern was indeed an EVP.  Scientifically, I can't explain it except to say that an energy force may indeed survive death that contains consciousness. Of course religious people will say I was tricked by Satan, but I don't believe that. 

[Eisenherz]

energy force may indeed survive death that contains consciousness.

If matter is merely a condensed form of energy, maybe the imaterial consciousness which is not entirely part of the material organism, simply consists of energy vibrating at a higher frequency which may indeed continue after "death" as we know it?




 

[The ChemistV2]

If matter is merely a condensed form of energy, maybe the imaterial consciousness which is not entirely part of the material organism, simply consists of energy vibrating at a higher frequency which may indeed continue after "death" as we know it?




 

That's not a bad hypothesis. Consider this, 150 years ago, if you could go back in time and try to explain that in the future we would have a device that was able to receive invisible frequencies and that device could take those frequencies and transmit a picture with sound (Television), they would probably find it hard to believe. Many people are of the opinion that if science hasn't yet been able to explain a phenomenon, than it can't possibly exist. That assumption means we've progessed technologically as far as we can go. There could one day indeed be a device than can detect previously undiscovered sources of energy, including possibly one that emanates from our body when we expire.

[Necrosis]

I fully support all efforts of science on this issue.
However, IMO neuroscience does and will not be able to explain neither human life nor death.

what aspects in particular?

they are doing a pretty good job of it so far.

[wavelength]

what aspects in particular?

they are doing a pretty good job of it so far.

Neuroscience describes the currently known scientific aspects of the brain resp. nervous system. It's actually not that far away from computer science. They meet in the field of neuronal networks and AI. The limitations of that specific model of reality have been elaborately discussed in the mentioned thread, e.g. starting at this post: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=198162.msg2759258#msg2759258

Neuroscience is fine as long as the model it works on is understood. It does not explain consciousness.

[wavelength]

Are you female?

[Necrosis]

Neuroscience is fine as long as the model it works on is understood. It does not explain consciousness.

I am a neuroscience major so i know something about the brain and how it operates. However your last sentence is pure conjecture, your assuming it cannot explain consciousness and that consciousness is not a natural process, this is a fallacy again by you. We know that we can alter consciousness by altering brain function, its easy to make deductions from there and predictions. We dont have a complete theory yet, but will some day.

[wavelength]

I am a neuroscience major so i know something about the brain and how it operates. However your last sentence is pure conjecture, your assuming it cannot explain consciousness and that consciousness is not a natural process, this is a fallacy again by you. We know that we can alter consciousness by altering brain function, its easy to make deductions from there and predictions. We dont have a complete theory yet, but will some day.

Well I disagree. Most philosophers do. I brought my arguments in the aforementioned thread.

[Necrosis]

Well I disagree. Most philosophers do. I brought my arguments in the aforementioned thread.

what philosophers? philosophers commenting on the physical? consciousness is a physical process, what can philosophy add that science cant here. Philosophers deluded by their own ME, there is no homonculus no spirit, just raw physical processes which can be changed via natural measures. I give you a hallucenogenic herb and your conciousness changes, what more of an argument can be put forth. I will give it to you that consciousnous seems like an emergent property, but i conclude this is due to lack of knowledge rather than reality.

[wavelength]

what philosophers? philosophers commenting on the physical? consciousness is a physical process, what can philosophy add that science cant here. Philosophers deluded by their own ME, there is no homonculus no spirit, just raw physical processes which can be changed via natural measures. I give you a hallucenogenic herb and your conciousness changes, what more of an argument can be put forth. I will give it to you that consciousnous seems like an emergent property, but i conclude this is due to lack of knowledge rather than reality.

Let's just agree to disagree. All the arguments have already been discussed in the thread I mentioned. No problem to have different opinions. I just don't want to repeat everything again, I'm much too lazy for that. 

[Necrosis]

Let's just agree to disagree. All the arguments have already been discussed in the thread I mentioned. No problem to have different opinions. I just don't want to repeat everything again, I'm much too lazy for that. 

post the thread again please if you wouldnt mind.

[wavelength]

post the thread again please if you wouldnt mind.

just look a few posts above.

Edit: here ya go: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=198162.0

[Necrosis]

just look a few posts above.

Edit: here ya go: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=198162.0

cool, ill look at the thread but im in the middle of studying for microbiology so i will have to get back to you in a bit. thanks.

[wavelength]

cool, ill look at the thread but im in the middle of studying for microbiology so i will have to get back to you in a bit. thanks.

No problem, good luck with your studies!

[www.BrinkZone.com]

Sounds like an interesting book.  I'm always looking for good books.  Thanks for the recommendation. 

It's an interesting reading. Of course he does not answer the question if there's some life after death, but his work and book are well worth reading and do leave you feeling hopeful in that area.

[Dos Equis]

Are you female?

lol.  Nah.     There are just a few little weirdos who follow me around the board trying to find out who I really am.   

[Dos Equis]

It's an interesting reading. Of course he does not answer the question if there's some life after death, but his work and book are well worth reading and do leave you feeling hopeful in that area.

I will add it to my reading list.  Thanks. 

[Dos Equis]

I'll be going to another funeral.  A friend of mine committed suicide.  He was a husband, father, and grandfather.  Two boys in college.  I'm still sort of in a state of shock.  I'd really like to know why, but only he can answer that question.  I know suicide is a very selfish act, and he just turned his entire family into victims, but I just feel terrible for him because he must have been depressed, and lonely, and didn't think he could reach out to anyone for help.  I just saw him last week and didn't have a clue.  He looked and sounded the same (always happy).  Man.  You never know . . . .   

I've never had a person I've known this well commit suicide.  Not sure what to think. 

My daughter asked me if someone who commits suicide can go to heaven.  I don't know the answer.  I say "yes," particularly if the person was clinically depressed.  But who knows? 

I do know that I hate death and dying.  I'll be back to complain some more whenever I attend his funeral. 

[Butterbean]

I'll be going to another funeral.  A friend of mine committed suicide.  He was a husband, father, and grandfather.  Two boys in college.  I'm still sort of in a state of shock.  I'd really like to know why, but only he can answer that question.  I know suicide is a very selfish act, and he just turned his entire family into victims, but I just feel terrible for him because he must have been depressed, and lonely, and didn't think he could reach out to anyone for help.  I just saw him last week and didn't have a clue.  He looked and sounded the same (always happy).  Man.  You never know . . . .   

I've never had a person I've known this well commit suicide.  Not sure what to think. 

My daughter asked me if someone who commits suicide can go to heaven.  I don't know the answer.  I say "yes," particularly if the person was clinically depressed.  But who knows? 

I do know that I hate death and dying.  I'll be back to complain some more whenever I attend his funeral. 

Very sorry about your friend, Beach.     I will pray for his family and friends.


As for if a believer who commits suicide can go to heaven, I believe yes.  Some people say that these people may lose any rewards they had coming to them, but I believe a believer's salvation is eternally secure.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Romans 8:38–39
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


1 John 2:1-2
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for[a] the sins of the whole world.

[Dos Equis]

Very sorry about your friend, Beach.     I will pray for his family and friends.


As for if a believer who commits suicide can go to heaven, I believe yes.  Some people say that these people may lose any rewards they had coming to them, but I believe a believer's salvation is eternally secure.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Romans 8:38–39
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


1 John 2:1-2
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for[a] the sins of the whole world.

Thanks Stella.  I'll miss him.  He was a really good guy. 

[mightymouse72]

I'll be going to another funeral.  A friend of mine committed suicide.  He was a husband, father, and grandfather.  Two boys in college.  I'm still sort of in a state of shock.  I'd really like to know why, but only he can answer that question.  I know suicide is a very selfish act, and he just turned his entire family into victims, but I just feel terrible for him because he must have been depressed, and lonely, and didn't think he could reach out to anyone for help.  I just saw him last week and didn't have a clue.  He looked and sounded the same (always happy).  Man.  You never know . . . .   

I've never had a person I've known this well commit suicide.  Not sure what to think. 

My daughter asked me if someone who commits suicide can go to heaven.  I don't know the answer.  I say "yes," particularly if the person was clinically depressed.  But who knows? 

I do know that I hate death and dying.  I'll be back to complain some more whenever I attend his funeral. 

Sorry for your lose, Beach.
His family is in my prayers.

Was he saved??

I've seen suicides/murders and how families react differently to those types of death.
We can be there for them but only God can provide the comfort someone needs in a time like that.


I agree with STella, nothing can seperate us from God once we accept His Son.
God may have some sort of punishment, IMO, but I don't want to find out what it is.

[Dos Equis]

Sorry for your lose, Beach.
His family is in my prayers.

Was he saved??

I've seen suicides/murders and how families react differently to those types of death.
We can be there for them but only God can provide the comfort someone needs in a time like that.


I agree with STella, nothing can seperate us from God once we accept His Son.
God may have some sort of punishment, IMO, but I don't want to find out what it is.

Thanks.  I'm not sure.  We talked business about 90 percent of the time, family about the other 10 percent, but never religion.  I don't really know what his relationship with God was.  I do know he was a good man.  My suspicion is he did this for life insurance money for his family.

I rarely talk religion with people unless they ask.