Author Topic: THANKS TO THE REPUBLICANS THE DOW IS BELOW 9000.....and fallin  (Read 2430 times)

WhiteCastle

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Re: THANKS TO THE REPUBLICANS THE DOW IS BELOW 9000.....and fallin
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2008, 06:26:43 PM »
Greenspan probably deserves most of the blame.  But you can't really blame people for not keeping up with payments, and here is why.  If you bought a house with any kind of mortgage three years ago for $400k, and got it appraised today and saw the value at $350k and falling, would you actually want to keep up with paying it given that it is now worth much less than you bought it for?  That's basically the equivalent of giving up a year's salary (i.e., work for a year for basically nothing) just to own a home that isn't worth what you originally agreed to pay.  And that's not even considering interest and inflation.  Franklly, even given that your credit score would take a beating, for a lot of people it is simply idiotic to actually keep up with the payments knowing that at best you probably will NEVER break even on the thing after considering inflation and interest.  It might be irresponsible, but it's also a smart move to let it foreclose and get a few months of free living in it.

Emmortal

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Re: THANKS TO THE REPUBLICANS THE DOW IS BELOW 9000.....and fallin
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2008, 06:27:10 PM »
But the biggest blame lies with the banks, credit agencies and ultimately the PEOPLE. Banks shouldn't have lent out to trailer trash and 'minorities'(blacks and hispanics) without credit and employment checks. Credit agencies like Moodys shouldn't have given out AAA ratings to companies holding massives amounts of mortgages as avaliable for sale securities. And people shouldn't have taken out huge loans they couldn't make payments on.

This was a HUGE part of it as well, and just like to point that out again.  The politicians are hesitant to point the finger at the people, and for good reason, but they played a huge part in it.  There were a ton of loans given to people who just 'stated' their income, basically showed no paper proof of what their income was, just said it to the bank and they signed the loan.  People like that and also the ones who took mortgages for $2900.00 a month fully knowing they only bring home $2700 a month were also a big part of why we're where we're at now.  That couple with all of the lenders and total lack of government oversight has put us down the shitter.

dario73

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Re: THANKS TO THE REPUBLICANS THE DOW IS BELOW 9000.....and fallin
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2008, 06:34:04 PM »
Isn't Barney Frank a Democrat? Everytime there was a meeting regarding Fannie Mae, Freddy Mac and deregulation of the banking system, Barney the fag was saying that there was nothing wrong. Everything was just fine according to him and his committee. It is a fact that only McCain called attention to it but everyone else thought he was wrong. the deregulation of the system occurred during Clinton's presidency and it has now come to fruition.

In the end, Republicans and Democrats, along with the greedy banks/investment houses are all to blame.

I think I am moving to Russia.

pedro01

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Re: THANKS TO THE REPUBLICANS THE DOW IS BELOW 9000.....and fallin
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2008, 08:32:45 PM »
Greenspan probably deserves most of the blame.  But you can't really blame people for not keeping up with payments, and here is why.  If you bought a house with any kind of mortgage three years ago for $400k, and got it appraised today and saw the value at $350k and falling, would you actually want to keep up with paying it given that it is now worth much less than you bought it for?  That's basically the equivalent of giving up a year's salary (i.e., work for a year for basically nothing) just to own a home that isn't worth what you originally agreed to pay.  And that's not even considering interest and inflation.  Franklly, even given that your credit score would take a beating, for a lot of people it is simply idiotic to actually keep up with the payments knowing that at best you probably will NEVER break even on the thing after considering inflation and interest.  It might be irresponsible, but it's also a smart move to let it foreclose and get a few months of free living in it.

Surely this kind of thinking is what got the US into trouble in the first place.

Your house is your home, it is not a credit instrument. Of course when you first buy a house, you can go into a negative equity situation. Over time, inflation reduces the value of your loan in real terms and this issue is resolved. Ask someone that brought a house 15 years ago and never re-mortgaged how much equity they have. Obviously people that don't re-mortgage don't see their home as a credit instrument.

I have plenty of friends in the US that kept on 'taking equity out of their home' to drive flash cars, get their huge LCD screens etc etc. Now they are in negative equity & you think they should just bail out & hand back the car, LCD, the new kitchen. the foreign holiday and the house ? Even those on high salaries are paying $1000's a month to pay off these loans. Fuck that.

It is not madness to continue paying for your house if it's worth $350K but you owe $400K. You still need somewhere to live and the prices will move up. It is irresponsible to just bail out. It is a symptom of wanting an immediate solution as opposed to buckling down and toughing it out for a while.

Not saving money to buy stuff is being financially immature. When you borrow - you end up paying over the odds for what you buy, the only difference is you don't have to be patient. If you have patience & can save to buy stuff you will be much better off. 

All this ‘gotta have it now’ and ‘bail out when the loans get too much’ is incredibly immature. Why the rush to have all these material things ?

People need to have some financial responsibility at the end of the day because all the borrowing to fuel the economy was always going to come back & bite the US because ultimately – loans have to be paid back. You simply cannot just keep borrowing to pay off your debts.

Just in case you are wondering - I am 38, I have a mortgage, I put 30% down, I do not have a balance on any of my credit cards and I do not have any loans outside of my mortgage. Last time I brought a car, I saved up for it. I sleep soundly at night because of this.

TechnoViking

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Re: THANKS TO THE REPUBLICANS THE DOW IS BELOW 9000.....and fallin
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2008, 02:53:32 AM »
Surely this kind of thinking is what got the US into trouble in the first place.

Your house is your home, it is not a credit instrument. Of course when you first buy a house, you can go into a negative equity situation. Over time, inflation reduces the value of your loan in real terms and this issue is resolved. Ask someone that brought a house 15 years ago and never re-mortgaged how much equity they have. Obviously people that don't re-mortgage don't see their home as a credit instrument.

I have plenty of friends in the US that kept on 'taking equity out of their home' to drive flash cars, get their huge LCD screens etc etc. Now they are in negative equity & you think they should just bail out & hand back the car, LCD, the new kitchen. the foreign holiday and the house ? Even those on high salaries are paying $1000's a month to pay off these loans. Fuck that.

It is not madness to continue paying for your house if it's worth $350K but you owe $400K. You still need somewhere to live and the prices will move up. It is irresponsible to just bail out. It is a symptom of wanting an immediate solution as opposed to buckling down and toughing it out for a while.

Not saving money to buy stuff is being financially immature. When you borrow - you end up paying over the odds for what you buy, the only difference is you don't have to be patient. If you have patience & can save to buy stuff you will be much better off. 

All this ‘gotta have it now’ and ‘bail out when the loans get too much’ is incredibly immature. Why the rush to have all these material things ?

People need to have some financial responsibility at the end of the day because all the borrowing to fuel the economy was always going to come back & bite the US because ultimately – loans have to be paid back. You simply cannot just keep borrowing to pay off your debts.

Just in case you are wondering - I am 38, I have a mortgage, I put 30% down, I do not have a balance on any of my credit cards and I do not have any loans outside of my mortgage. Last time I brought a car, I saved up for it. I sleep soundly at night because of this.


You need to watch the movie Boiler Room...Houses are no longer homes for people who want to make quick money...That idea of your house being your home died with our parents...

pedro01

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Re: THANKS TO THE REPUBLICANS THE DOW IS BELOW 9000.....and fallin
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2008, 06:41:30 AM »

You need to watch the movie Boiler Room...Houses are no longer homes for people who want to make quick money...That idea of your house being your home died with our parents...

I need to watch a movie  ???

Excellent economic commentary there...  ::)

MCWAY

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Re: THANKS TO THE REPUBLICANS THE DOW IS BELOW 9000.....and fallin
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2008, 07:26:59 AM »
is this what they mean by 'trickle down' ???

Both parties have dropped the ball on this, or did you forget that the Dems have controlled Congress for the last two years.

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Re: THANKS TO THE REPUBLICANS THE DOW IS BELOW 9000.....and fallin
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2008, 08:58:31 AM »
Republicans or Democrats? Are you serious? Do you really think your government is there to protect your interests? I work for one of the largest banks in the world and can tell you that every time we are audited by the SEC, the FED or whoever the only thing the regulators are interested in is how to get a job with us once they put in their 2-3 years at the regulator. The banking industry owns washington. You watch TV and see that the Federal Reserve is cutting interest rates or raising interest rates. Do you know that the Federal Reserve is not a Federal agency? It is a banking union with international stock owners. That is correct. The Federal Reserve was set up by the largest banks and some of the richest families in the world back in 1910 during another banking crisis to get the taxpayers to save them. It is not there to help you. It is there to help banks and their stock holders.

The markets have fallen due to fear that our banking system may collapse. Banks take in deposits from businesses and consumers and then loan the money out to other businesses and consumers. Now that all of those loans are in trouble due to Joe Idiot not paying his mortgage the banks do not have enough money to pay back their depositors. If everyone ran to the bank to withdraw their money today they would not get it back and the banking system would collapse. This is what happened during the Great Depression and more recently in Argentina and it is the reason for the current bailout.

When you ask who is to blame it is the ratings companies (Moodys & S&P) who rated Joe Idiot's mortgage as AAA since the ratings industry felt that Joe Idiot's mortgage could be refinanced due to ever increasing home values. The mortgage companies sold mortgages as they always have and are not to blame. They simply sold the mortgages to idiots and got their commissions. They then sold off the mortgages to investment banks since the ratings companies said that Joe Idiot was solid. The ratings agencies did not do their homework. Then one day the ratings agencies decided to re-rate the mortgage related securities that were out there and they decreased the value of those ratings and everyone holding those securities (banks, investment banks, hedge funds, pension funds, mutual funds, etc.) lost money. That was about a year ago and you got a market decline that has continued to accelerate.

Do not blame Republicans or Democrats. They are owned. Blame the ratings agencies and the idiot next door with his no money down mortgage and 100k HELOC.