Author Topic: Obama and Bush are not so far apart  (Read 2271 times)

OzmO

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Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« on: October 13, 2008, 10:32:04 AM »
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/wall.bush-obama/index.html

 WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Since Barack Obama incessantly makes the case that a John McCain administration would equate to another Bush term, it's worth looking at just how much Sen. Obama himself is in agreement with the unpopular president.

Does that mean that he, too, would be a repeat of President Bush? If one were to apply his logic, maybe so.

Here are 20 reasons why:

1. Abstinence: Bush expanded community-based abstinence education during his term, including a $28 million budget increase for 2009 in an effort to "Teach both abstinence and contraception to teens." Obama concurred in April when he said: "We want to make sure that, even as we are teaching responsible sexuality and we are teaching abstinence to children, that we are also making sure that they've got enough understanding about contraception."

2. Affirmative action: Bush said of the 2003 University of Michigan affirmative action case: "I strongly support diversity of all kinds, including racial diversity in higher education. But the method used by the University of Michigan to achieve this important goal is fundamentally flawed" -- because it depended solely on race. Bush has said other factors, such as socioeconomic status, should be considered, which would include poor white students.
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Obama now agrees with that view. "Inside Higher Ed" referred in May to "Obama's suggestion that he may be ready to change the focus of affirmative action policies in higher education -- away from race to economic class. ... In his debate in Philadelphia with Hillary Clinton, he said in response to a question, that his own privileged daughters do not deserve affirmative action preferences, and that working-class students of all colors do."

3. Budgets: Obama voted for Bush's budgets, which included 19 spending bills.

4. Capital punishment: Like Bush, Obama supports capital punishment. He spoke out in opposition to the recent Supreme Court decision that denied the death penalty for child rapists. And in his 2006 memoir, Obama said, "I believe there are some crimes -- mass murder, the rape and murder of a child -- so heinous that the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage by meting out the ultimate punishment."

5. Education: Obama supports charter schools, as does Bush, and merit pay for teachers, and he voted in favor of supporting the president's 21st Century Community Learning Centers.

6. Economics: Obama told reporters that he agreed with Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Bush's bailout package, then voted for the $700 billion plan. And despite routinely criticizing "the Bush tax cuts," Obama is now offering tax cuts of his own (although only for the 95 percent of taxpayers earning less than $250,000 a year). What a concept!

7. Energy: In signing the $12.3 billion Energy Policy Act of 2005, Bush said it "promotes dependable, affordable, and environmentally sound production and distribution of energy for America's future." Obama voted for the energy plan and called it a "first step toward decreasing America's dependence on foreign oil."

8. Faith-based initiatives/fatherhood: Bush is well known for his commitment to the faith-based community -- with initiatives for the poor and on fatherhood -- and he expanded the ability to allow faith-based providers a seat at the funding table. Obama, who has railed against Bush's efforts, has still found a way to embrace them, saying he would "expand" faith-based initiatives. He used his Father's Day speech to echo the president's Fatherhood Initiative.

9. FISA: Of the Senate bill passage that rewrote intelligence laws to grant immunity to telecommunications companies that participated in the Bush administration's wiretapping program, Bush said: "This vital intelligence bill will allow our national security professionals to quickly and effectively monitor the plans of terrorists outside the United States, while respecting the liberties of the American people."

Obama, who supported it, after opposing FISA last year, said: "Given the grave threats that we face, our national security agencies must have the capability to gather intelligence and track down terrorists before they strike, while respecting the rule of law and the privacy and civil liberties of the American people." Almost identical, huh? Are we sure they don't share the same speechwriter? But Obama did take heat for his change of heart, as The Washington Post reported that: "The Illinois senator's reversal on the issue has angered liberal groups." Guess you can't please everyone.

10. Gay marriage: Both Obama and Bush agree that marriage is and should remain between one man and one woman. As far back as 2004, Obama said: "Gays ... should not marry." And in a 2007 Senate debate, he said: "I agree with most Americans, with Democrats and Republicans, with Vice President Cheney, with over 2,000 religious leaders of all different beliefs, that decisions about marriage, as they always have, should be left to the states. ... Personally, I do believe that marriage is between a man and a woman."

11. Global AIDS: Obama has said the U.S. must "lead the global fight against the AIDS virus." And earlier this year, he encouraged lawmakers to "Use whatever works with AIDS, including teaching abstinence." Obama has given Bush kudos for his efforts to combat global AIDS and the record amount of funding ($15 billion over 5 years) the president has earmarked for the fight. Obama said in September, "I think President Bush -- and many of you here today -- have shown real leadership in the fight against HIV/AIDS."

12. Health care: While they don't share similar views on universal health care coverage, Bush and Obama agree that the problem with health care is "about affordability" and there is a need to address minority health concerns with more coverage and targeting. That is why Bush expanded community health care centers, covering the uninsured and targeting urban areas, to the tune of $1.5 billion for 1,200 centers "coast to coast."

13. Middle-class tax cuts: While he hasn't voted for such cuts, Obama is pushing his biggest economic initiative yet: tax cuts for the middle class. "We've got to help the middle class," Obama said Tuesday. Perhaps unbeknownst to him, Bush has already been there, done that. In signing the 2001 Tax Cut Bill, Bush said: "Tax relief is an achievement for families struggling to enter the middle class. For hard-working lower-income families, we have cut the bottom rate of federal income tax from 15 percent to 10 percent. We doubled the per-child tax credit to $1,000, and made it refundable. ... Tax relief is an achievement for middle-class families squeezed by high energy prices and credit card debt."

14. Minority homeownership: Obama adopted the Congressional Black Caucus principles "to increase minority homeownership" as it is "one of the best wealth-creation vehicles for minority families." These principles were developed as part of Bush's vision to expand minority homeownership to 5.5 million new homeowners by 2010. "Across our nation, every citizen, regardless of race, creed, color or place of birth, should have the opportunity to become a homeowner," Bush said.

Similar comparisons can be drawn for their positions on small businesses and on businesses owned by women and minorities.

15. National security: Obama voted yes on preauthorizing the much ballyhooed Patriot Act, sought by the Bush administration.

16. Offshore drilling: Bush has consistently pushed for drilling offshore, while Obama, who until recently opposed it, now says he's for it. In Nashville, Tennessee, he told an audience: "We're going to have to explore new ways to get more oil, and that includes offshore drilling."

17. Racial profiling: Obama's campaign literature states that he will call for a ban on racial profiling, even though Bush issued a directive that banned racial profiling in 2001. In his order, Bush said to the attorney general: "I hereby direct you to review the use by federal law enforcement authorities of race as a factor in conducting stops, searches and other investigative procedures. ... I further direct that you report back to me with your findings and recommendations for the improvement of the just and equal administration of our nation's laws."

18. Religion: It is widely known that Obama is a person of faith. He has said: "I am a proud Christian who believes deeply in Jesus Christ." Bush, who shares the same faith, has been just as much, if not more vocal, about his faith. He once told The Washington Times that he doesn't "see how you can be president without a relationship with the Lord."

19. Supreme Court ruling on gun ban: Despite his past endorsements of some gun control measures, Obama's reaction to the recent Supreme Court decision upholding the constitutional right of individuals to own handguns mirrors the administration's. Obama now says: "As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms."

20. Welfare reform: An Obama ad this summer said he "passed a law to move people from welfare to work" and "slashed the rolls by 80 percent" (though all states had to as a result of the Clinton administration's mandate). Obama said in 2004: "Go into the collar counties around Chicago, and people will tell you they don't want their tax money wasted by a welfare agency." In 2003, Bush successfully called on Congress to reauthorize and expand on welfare reform efforts, "to make welfare even more focused on the well being of children and supportive of families."

So, although he has been ranked as the most liberal senator by the National Journal and obviously hasn't voted with Bush as often as Sen. McCain has -- based on his voting "record" -- Obama's "rhetoric" still sounds a lot like, well, Bush. McCain might want to take that into account the next time Obama talks about another Bush term.

loco

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2008, 02:05:52 PM »
Good post OzmO!

Obama, McCain, Biden, Bush...what's the difference?

Wish Ron Paul was running.    :(

OzmO

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2008, 02:10:14 PM »
Good post OzmO!

Obama, McCain, Biden, Bush...what's the difference?

Wish Ron Paul was running.    :(

Thanks loco,  what's ironic is reading all the arguments for and against Obama and McCain

PTB

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2008, 02:16:59 PM »
beat me to it!  ;D

Good post.  I don't agree with Tara on most things, and Roland Martin owned her over the weekend on that cnn special on race in this election:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0810/11/se.03.html

check near the bottom!

bears

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2008, 02:17:58 PM »
that article is entirely too rational and true for any american voter to actually pay attention to it.  this thread will die very soon for that reason.  

w8tlftr

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2008, 02:47:12 PM »
Damn good article.

Good post, Pinoy!!!  ;D


jimijimi

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2008, 03:32:36 PM »
Ya most people who are voting Obama don't read much and have little education.
I did't say you i said most people, look around.

garebear

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2008, 03:48:59 PM »
...
G

IFBBwannaB

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2008, 05:07:30 PM »

People don't understand when Hussein say change he talks about the change money in your pocket, thats the only thing he really look for and the only thing that will change, you will have less spare change.


Hereford

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2008, 09:07:16 PM »
People don't understand when Hussein say change he talks about the change money in your pocket, thats the only thing he really look for and the only thing that will change, you will have less spare change.



No way man, Hussein wants to build a better America, and he will enlist the help of the pixie gnomes to do it.

No tax increases will be needed....

garebear

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2008, 11:15:04 PM »
People don't understand when Hussein say change he talks about the change money in your pocket, thats the only thing he really look for and the only thing that will change, you will have less spare change.



I want to thank you for posting this.

You see, I often wonder if I will really know the moment you write the most stupid thing you're capable of.

Now I don't have to wait for the other shoe to drop.
G

loco

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2008, 02:18:33 AM »
Only one problem, with Bush's epic 8 years of doubletalk, how do you know what part you're matching what with?  If I had a dime for everytime he said one thing and worked toward another...  pick the middleclass tax cuts... this lists both of them as a match but you have to be retarded to call Obama's plan and that of which Bush pushed as on the same page.

There are many YouTube videos of both, Obama and McCain flip-flopping.  So what's the difference?

Biden is an interventionist and proud of it.  Obama wants to shift troops from Iraq to Afghanistan and pour more money into that war.  So what's the difference?

IFBBwannaB

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2008, 04:08:35 AM »
There are many YouTube videos of both, Obama and McCain flip-flopping.  So what's the difference?

Biden is an interventionist and proud of it.  Obama wants to shift troops from Iraq to Afghanistan and pour more money into that war.  So what's the difference?

The difference is that he isn't swinging off Bush's nuts , he's too busy feeling enlightened and smart because he vote for the Democratic, black, Muslim and socialist man.

I love it how all those self proclaimed new age people got suckered in, Hussein was the perfect man to do it since he is the least fitting for the job, it's politics reverse physiology version.

loco

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2008, 05:26:42 AM »
the worst part of Bush is the neoconservative bubble he's in.  The worst part of McCain is that they have built the bubble around him and he trusts them.  The worst part of the last 8 years is due to lousy neocons...  at least Obama isn't the goto man for the neocons to maintain power.  That is something the "they're the same" crowd is going to have a hard time pushing.

Neocons don't want the troops back and they want to continue pouring money into the war.  Obama doesn't want to bring the troops back either.  He wants to shift them from Iraq to Afghanistan and continue to pour money into that war.

Neocons are interventionists.  So is Biden, and he's proud of it.  How can you support Obama and Biden when you won't stop criticizing the US for being interventionist?

loco

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2008, 06:13:32 AM »
you want to leave it at that or would you care to address the rest of the story...  You can't possibly think Obama is on board with the neoconservative view of America's role to police the world.  I really don't care that Obama hasn't committed to an instant end to the wars.  It doesn't take a genius to know that if that were his policy, he'd be lucky if he were polling at 40 percent.  The republicans have shown how effective they are in the fear based campaign...  You think he gets accused of being on the side of terrorists now, what would the picture look like if he were campaigning on an instant end to the wars?  Lets talk Iran, the neocons are hellbent on attacking Iran.  They tried like hell a while back to make that happen and here we have a guy, Obama, that is the first guy in the presidential campaign to say diplomacy should be brought back into the mix.  And who came unglued on that idea?  THE NEOCONS... Look, these neoconservatives have shown full well that they don't care what a country does, they make goals to attack countries years ahead of time, regime change, nationbuild and police the region.  It's not hard to see that Obama, based on everything he said before the general, will not go willingly with the psycho neocon vision of our role in the world...  Obama has ran a smart campaign and good because with McCain, you know the path is neocon.  With Obama, no pun intended, there IS HOPE.  Now, try to imagine an Obama presidency working the false intelligence campaign of lies in order to get us into a War with Iran or Syria or....  Imagine him sending dems to speak of looming mushroom clouds on meet the press....  yea, harder to imagine isn't it ;)

So Obama really wants to bring the troops back now, but he is telling lies right now only to get elected?  Great!

Way to avoid the issues and the question.  I'll ask again.  How can you support Obama and Biden when you won't stop criticizing the US for being interventionist?

y19mike77

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2008, 06:50:57 AM »
What's the difference between what?  Just because candidates flip flop in an election?  Hello politics...  I keep pointing this out and people keep ignoring me... The better tell of a candidate is what they said and stood for before the general election.  In that regard these two are plent differerent!

Your right Hugo...

Before the election he associated himself with an anti white anti american preacher for over 20yrs and a terrorist.


loco

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2008, 02:42:32 PM »
Bump

jimijimi

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2008, 05:08:00 PM »
HUGO WHATS OBAMA GOING TO DO FOR YOU, PAY YOUR BILLS AND I CAN SAY THE SAME ABOUT
Mc CAINE, NOTHING. YOU HAVE TO DO FOR YOURSELF BRO.
I WILL GO WITH EXPERIENCE BRO.

jimijimi

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2008, 04:46:40 AM »
NO answers for that, you should watch the next debate.

loco

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2008, 05:43:50 AM »
you saying McCain isn't telling lies ::)  No, I think Obama will probably do what he said he will do in regards to Iraq and Afghan.  I really don't care either way, it's an inherited mess that probably has no easy fix.  Now if you want me to take any debate I have with you serious, could you address the rest of my post.  seems you skipped the most important parts and opted for a zinger...

I do not support McCain.  How can you support Obama and Biden when you won't stop criticizing the US for being interventionist?

loco

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2008, 06:26:29 AM »
did you not read my post, sounds like you didn't since you're asking what I clearly addressed.


That does not answer my question at all.  It's obvious you do not want to answer.  It's okay.  I give up. 

You won't stop criticizing the US for being interventionist, yet you support interventionist candidates who admit to it and are proud of it. 

It wouldn't be as bad if you were consistent and did not criticize the US for being interventionist as much as you do, or if you would be consistent and supported an non-interventionist candidate, an independent candidate.

Al Doggity

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2008, 07:26:33 AM »
If you actually read the comparisons in the original post, the similarities aren't that great. For the majority of the list, there are specific points in broad issues that the two agree on even though their overall platform is different.

It's like saying "this guy believes you should work out every day and use heavy weights and sacrifice form" while another guy believes you should take a rest day every four days and use moderate weight with strict form and then asserting that both hold similar positions because they advocate physical fitness.

Dos Equis

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2008, 02:54:37 PM »
If you actually read the comparisons in the original post, the similarities aren't that great. For the majority of the list, there are specific points in broad issues that the two agree on even though their overall platform is different.

It's like saying "this guy believes you should work out every day and use heavy weights and sacrifice form" while another guy believes you should take a rest day every four days and use moderate weight with strict form and then asserting that both hold similar positions because they advocate physical fitness.

I agree.  I don't think they're all that similar.  On a number of issues there is a night and day difference (e.g., taxes, spending, economic priorities, the military, and social issues).   

jimijimi

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2008, 04:45:29 PM »
Like i said most people don't even know why or what there voting for.

loco

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Re: Obama and Bush are not so far apart
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2008, 09:42:15 AM »
Liberals voice concerns about Obama

Mon Dec 8, 2008


Liberals are growing increasingly nervous – and some just flat-out angry – that President-elect Barack Obama seems to be stiffing them on Cabinet jobs and policy choices.

Obama has reversed pledges to immediately repeal tax cuts for the wealthy and take on Big Oil. He’s hedged his call for a quick drawdown in Iraq. And he’s stocking his White House with anything but stalwarts of the left.

Now some are shedding a reluctance to puncture the liberal euphoria at being rid of President George W. Bush to say, in effect, that the new boss looks like the old boss.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081208/pl_politico/16292