Joe The Plumber

[OzmO]

Again, what does his position in life have to do with the question? Are you saying that questions are only valid when they come from the right person? Hilarious concept. LOL. I'm sure some scientists would love to know that. We'd be living in the stone age still.

I'm not saying that at all.  I'm saying Joe the Plummer's issue isn't valid as it doesn't apply to him.   Now the issue of a person having to pay more taxes if they earn over 250K is an issue worth talking about, but Joe the plummer....."the ordinary American" isn't part of it.

[Fury]

I'm not saying that at all.  I'm saying Joe the Plummer's issue isn't valid as it doesn't apply to him.   Now the issue of a person having to pay more taxes if they earn over 250K is an issue worth talking about, but Joe the plummer....."the ordinary American" isn't part of it.

Again, his issue is valid as it is a pretty prevalent issue in Obama's campaign. Whether or not it came from the mouth of someone making $250k doesn't determine it's validity. You focusing on that and not the question just shows that you can't or won't answer it. For what reason?

So you're saying that questions are only valid when they come from the right people? Brilliant logic. Like I said, if everyone followed that m.o., we'd be living in the stone age as some of the world's greatest scientists wouldn't have pushed the boundaries on their research because they weren't in the position to be asking certain questions.

[CQ]

Again, what does his position in life have to do with the question? Are you saying that questions are only valid when they come from the right person? Hilarious concept. LOL. I'm sure some scientists would love to know that. We'd be living in the stone age still.

I think it may come across as non PC, but of course "position in life" as you said can impact whether it matters to someone or not.

I personally would not be personally concerned what a tax bracket is for someone making say a million a year. For a hotshot lawyer, doctor, athlete etc that may very well be a relevant question. For me it is not as no one in their right mind would pay me a million a year, and I will never make that.

My thing is the guy said he was skeptical to buy a business as his taxes may go up. If one can bolster their income by $100k, and lose an extra $20k in tax, but end up with a net $80k extra why would any rational person hesitate?

[Fury]

I think it may come across as non PC, but of course "position in life" as you said can impact whether it matters to someone or not.

I personally would not be personally concerned what a tax bracket is for someone making say a million a year. For a hotshot lawyer, doctor, athlete etc that may very well be a relevant question. For me it is not as no one in their right mind would pay me a million a year, and I will never make that.

My thing is the guy said he was skeptical to buy a business as his taxes may go up. If one can bolster their income by $100k, and lose an extra $20k in tax, but end up with a net $80k extra why would any rational person hesitate?

This is a political campaign for the position of leader of the USA. Every question is just as valid as the next and deserves an answer, regardless of who said it. If a four year old asked the question, then it should still be answered. And not only that, but it's a major sticking point as both candidates have been referencing this guy all week. Whether or not he makes $250k a year DOES NOT CHANGE THE QUESTION. It's pretty simple really.


I don't understand why it's so hard to get by who this guy actually is (who honestly gives a fuck?) and focus on the question. Are the Obama nut huggers really that afraid of justifying his plan?

[OzmO]

Again, his issue is valid as it is a pretty prevalent issue in Obama's campaign. Whether or not it came from the mouth of someone making $250k doesn't determine it's validity. You focusing on that and not the question just shows that you can't or won't answer it. For what reason?

So you're saying that questions are only valid when they come from the right people? Brilliant logic. Like I said, if everyone followed that m.o., we'd be living in the stone age as some of the world's greatest scientists wouldn't have pushed the boundaries on their research because they weren't in the position to be asking certain questions.

dude when have i shown i won't answer a question?  I think raising the CGT on people earning 250K is TOO much.  It should be people earning 1 million or more if any at all.  As far as increasing taxes for people who earn over 250K?  I don't earn that much.  But my boss does and he doesn't give a shvt he says because he doesn't believe it will be enough to make much of a difference to him.  He doesn't like it.  he rather keep the money, of course.  (He's also a bit different about money than most, so don't think I'm saying everyone is like this or i believe they should be) He's an right leaning independent.   

My point is that Joe the Plumber should taken out of the issue because he doesn't apply.

BF do you make 250K+ per year?

[Fury]

dude when have i shown i won't answer a question?  I think raising the CGT on people earning 250K is TOO much.  It should be people earning 1 million or more if any at all.  As far as increasing taxes for people who earn over 250K?  I don't earn that much.  But my boss does and he doesn't give a shvt he says because he doesn't believe it will be enough to make much of a difference to him.  He doesn't like it.  he rather keep the money, of course.  (He's also a bit different about money than most, so don't think I'm saying everyone is like this or i believe they should be) He's an right leaning independent.   

My point is that Joe the Plumber should taken out of the issue because he doesn't apply.

BF do you make 250K+ per year?

Nope, I don't. But when does it stop? He taxes people making over $250k a year now and then what? Next, it's something else to help the poor. Then it's universal health care, which is going to come out of the pockets of the successful again (despite the fact they won't use it). Then it's another thing, etc...


A lot of the issues in this campaign don't affect me or you specifically, yet they're valid. Are you going to be in a need of an abortion any time soon? I doubt it. I won't be needing one and probably the majority of voters won't be. Yet it's an issue. Funny how politics work.

[OzmO]

Nope, I don't. But when does it stop? He taxes people making over $250k a year now and then what? Next, it's something else to help the poor. Then it's universal health care, which is going to come out of the pockets of the successful again (despite the fact they won't use it). Then it's another thing, etc...


A lot of the issues in this campaign don't affect me or you specifically, yet they're valid. Are you going to be in a need of an abortion any time soon? I doubt it. I won't be needing one and probably the majority of voters won't be. Yet it's an issue. Funny how politics work.

UNiversal health care in America will NEVER happen.  Get that?  the medical industry is too huge and power to ever let it happen anytime soon.  Universal health care is political selling point.  that's all.  Have you listened to him lately?  He's abandoned it.  Did you watch the last debate?  And largest tax increases have come from both repub and dem presidents. 

Don't let yourself get sold on the repub spew machine so easily. 

In my mind abortion is a moral issue, not a political issue, because i would never encourage or make someone abort a baby regardless of the law.

[Soul Crusher]

UNiversal health care in America will NEVER happen.  Get that?  the medical industry is too huge and power to ever let it happen anytime soon.  Universal health care is political selling point.  that's all.  Have you listened to him lately?  He's abandoned it.  Did you watch the last debate?  And largest tax increases have come from both repub and dem presidents. 

Don't let yourself get sold on the repub spew machine so easily. 

In my mind abortion is a moral issue, not a political issue, because i would never encourage or make someone abort a baby regardless of the law.

the same government who screwed up Iraq, Katrina, Medicaid, education are not going to get health care right either.

[Fury]

UNiversal health care in America will NEVER happen.  Get that?  the medical industry is too huge and power to ever let it happen anytime soon.  Universal health care is political selling point.  that's all.  Have you listened to him lately?  He's abandoned it.  Did you watch the last debate?  And largest tax increases have come from both repub and dem presidents. 

Don't let yourself get sold on the repub spew machine so easily. 

In my mind abortion is a moral issue, not a political issue, because i would never encourage or make someone abort a baby regardless of the law.

Universal health care was just an example to illustrate my point. It could be any manner of things.

I'm not "sold on the repub spew machine" so easily. They're no better than the dems. And I'm not voting for either candidate because I think they both suck. McCain sucks worse but Obama's really not much better. And I think that will be proven when like most presidents, he doesn't follow through on half the shit he's been campaigning about. The only thing I think Obama will be better at is fixing the economy. But that's not because he's got some master plan, I think McCain is just clueless on it.

[OzmO]

Universal health care was just an example to illustrate my point. It could be any manner of things.

I'm not "sold on the repub spew machine" so easily. They're no better than the dems. And I'm not voting for either candidate because I think they both suck. McCain sucks worse but Obama's really not much better. And I think that will be proven when like most presidents, he doesn't follow through on half the shit he's been campaigning about. The only thing I think Obama will be better at is fixing the economy. But that's not because he's got some master plan, I think McCain is just clueless on it.

Citing Universal Health as realistic sounds like you are sold on the spew machine.   but i agree with just about everything else you said there.

[IFBBwannaB]

You Democrats miss the point, not only that it start with 250K and end with 50K (since Hussein can't stop saying spending more on this or that).

Whats worse is the rational behind it, he specifically say I'm taking your money and giving it out to the weaker people.
By the end of his term it will be a tax on 50K and claim that we have to pull all those in poverty out....

Hussein whole concept is wrong, McCain wants to fix the system while Hussein specifically say over and over he just want to expend it....basically making it even bigger and shitter.

The government doesn't lack money , it lack proper usage of it!

[Hereford]

UNiversal health care in America will NEVER happen.  Get that?  the medical industry is too huge and power to ever let it happen anytime soon.  Universal health care is political selling point.  that's all.  Have you listened to him lately?  He's abandoned it.  Did you watch the last debate?  And largest tax increases have come from both repub and dem presidents. 

Don't let yourself get sold on the repub spew machine so easily. 

In my mind abortion is a moral issue, not a political issue, because i would never encourage or make someone abort a baby regardless of the law.

With the universal health care, the private health industry will still exist. People who can pay will still do their own thing.

[OzmO]

With the universal health care, the private health industry will still exist. People who can pay will still do their own thing.

I was told Medicare pays about 43% back to the doctor for what would be 100% from medical insurance companies.   I don't see that changing to doctors and nearly everyone involved in the medical profession.

What they need to do is figure a way to bring the rates down.

[Hereford]

Kick the 6 thousand illegals out of every ER in SoCal would be a good start.

[LurkerNoMore]

the same government who screwed up Iraq, Katrina, Medicaid, education are not going to get health care right either.

that would be the GOP government.

[OzmO]

Kick the 6 thousand illegals out of every ER in SoCal would be a good start.

yes that's true

[Fury]

Citing Universal Health as realistic sounds like you are sold on the spew machine.   but i agree with just about everything else you said there.

Actually, I've said for a long time that universal health care is unrealistic. Just look at some of the news articles over the last year. Not only are the costs unbelievable, but there is no way that the country has the infrastructure to handle it. Studies show that ER wait times are already at an all time, hospitals are packed to the brim, doctors continue to work longer and longer hours while their salaries decrease.

I remember reading a year ago that the average physician now works a 60 hour week, and that's steadily increasing.


I was using it to illustrate my point. You can pick a number of different things to convey the same point I was trying to make.

[OzmO]

Actually, I've said for a long time that universal health care is unrealistic. Just look at some of the news articles over the last year. Not only are the costs unbelievable, but there is no way that the country has the infrastructure to handle it. Studies show that ER wait times are already at an all time, hospitals are packed to the brim, doctors continue to work longer and longer hours while their salaries decrease.

I remember reading a year ago that the average physician now works a 60 hour week, and that's steadily increasing.


I was using it to illustrate my point. You can pick a number of different things to convey the same point I was trying to make.

So to say Obama is going to make UHC a reality is unrealistic.   In other words, UHC is nothing to fear because it  won't happen

[Fury]

So to say Obama is going to make UHC a reality is unrealistic.   In other words, UHC is nothing to fear because it  won't happen

In other words, it was an EXAMPLE. I could've said that Obama could make us pay a tax on having too many socks. What I was trying to convey is that if it starts with the tax on people making $250k or more, then when does it stop? What's the next thing he's going to tack on to the rich? It could be a manner of things seeing as he's apparently saying they're responsible for picking up the poor and pathetic.

[OzmO]

Nope, I don't. But when does it stop? He taxes people making over $250k a year now and then what? Next, it's something else to help the poor. Then it's universal health care, which is going to come out of the pockets of the successful again (despite the fact they won't use it). Then it's another thing, etc...

You said it would be Universal Health Care.  Why are you citing something that won't happen as something to be worried about?

In other words, it was an EXAMPLE. I could've said that Obama could make us pay a tax on having too many socks. What I was trying to convey is that if it starts with the tax on people making $250k or more, then when does it stop? What's the next thing he's going to tack on to the rich? It could be a manner of things seeing as he's apparently saying they're responsible for picking up the poor and pathetic.

I do not think Obama will go any more tax crazy than any other president has including BUSH & Reagan.   

[Colossus_500]

Nothing short of brilliant!  Gary Bauer is spot on with this write-up:

The Terrorist And The Plumber

Joe the plumber is in trouble. He has committed an unspeakable act – he spoke up for capitalism and free enterprise. He publicly spoke taboo words: “I don’t want to be taxed more just because I work harder.” But it gets even worse. His words have put the Messiah from Illinois, Barack Obama, on the defensive. There is only one solution: Joe must be destroyed. (With the media fixated on Joe, maybe Sarah Palin will get a break!)

The same media that have done nothing to investigate Weather Underground terrorist William Ayers, the same media that have ignored the relationship between Ayers and Obama, the same big shot reporters who have turned Michelle Obama into a mystery woman whose views are “off limits,” and the same media that left no stone unturned in Alaska trying to embarrass Sarah Palin – that media are now in a feeding frenzy to destroy Blue Collar Joe. And the Obama/Biden campaign is piling on, too.

In the last 24-hours the inquiring minds of the press have discovered that Joe once had a tax lien against him for $1,200. Several press outlets charged that he wasn’t even registered to vote. Then they dropped that attack and replaced it with an even more damaging charge: He is registered, but – GASP! – “He’s a Republican!”

Diane Sawyer wanted to know whether the McCain campaign had talked to Joe before he confronted Obama The Savior. (No, it had not.) Then this news broke last night – he isn’t really a plumber because he didn’t finish the Ohio licensing requirements. Before the day is over, we will know whether he ever said a cross word, had too much to drink or passed gas.

The goal is clear: Destroy Joe before Americans wake up to the fact that they are close to electing the most far left, pro-abortion, anti-military, socialism-advocating candidate in the history of the United States.

Pray for Joe, his family and his friends. Unless he recants and pledges allegiance to Obama in the next few days, Joe is toast.

[OzmO]

Welcome to a modern presidential race "Joe the Plumber"   Everyone gets some mud.


In the mean time, maybe everyone can find a real world example.
 

"333386"  might be a better example

[Dos Equis]

Nothing short of brilliant!  Gary Bauer is spot on with this write-up:

The Terrorist And The Plumber

Joe the plumber is in trouble. He has committed an unspeakable act – he spoke up for capitalism and free enterprise. He publicly spoke taboo words: “I don’t want to be taxed more just because I work harder.” But it gets even worse. His words have put the Messiah from Illinois, Barack Obama, on the defensive. There is only one solution: Joe must be destroyed. (With the media fixated on Joe, maybe Sarah Palin will get a break!)

The same media that have done nothing to investigate Weather Underground terrorist William Ayers, the same media that have ignored the relationship between Ayers and Obama, the same big shot reporters who have turned Michelle Obama into a mystery woman whose views are “off limits,” and the same media that left no stone unturned in Alaska trying to embarrass Sarah Palin – that media are now in a feeding frenzy to destroy Blue Collar Joe. And the Obama/Biden campaign is piling on, too.

In the last 24-hours the inquiring minds of the press have discovered that Joe once had a tax lien against him for $1,200. Several press outlets charged that he wasn’t even registered to vote. Then they dropped that attack and replaced it with an even more damaging charge: He is registered, but – GASP! – “He’s a Republican!”

Diane Sawyer wanted to know whether the McCain campaign had talked to Joe before he confronted Obama The Savior. (No, it had not.) Then this news broke last night – he isn’t really a plumber because he didn’t finish the Ohio licensing requirements. Before the day is over, we will know whether he ever said a cross word, had too much to drink or passed gas.

The goal is clear: Destroy Joe before Americans wake up to the fact that they are close to electing the most far left, pro-abortion, anti-military, socialism-advocating candidate in the history of the United States.

Pray for Joe, his family and his friends. Unless he recants and pledges allegiance to Obama in the next few days, Joe is toast.

Spot on.  You even have people making the claim that Joe was a Republican plant.  lol.  People are missing the issue:  Obama will hurt small businesses and those people like Joe who are trying to create jobs.  He will "spread the wealth."  

[OzmO]

Spot on.  You even have people making the claim that Joe was a Republican plant.  lol.  People are missing the issue:  Obama will hurt small businesses and those people like Joe who are trying to create jobs.  He will "spread the wealth."  

Joe the Plumber will not net near 250K.  Bad example.  Obama's tax policies will not prevent him from employing more people.  What will do that is his business. 

[Soul Crusher]

Welcome to a modern presidential race "Joe the Plumber"   Everyone gets some mud.


In the mean time, maybe everyone can find a real world example.
 

"333386"  might be a better example

The bottom line is that everyone is already taxed to the grills.  Although lower income people may not pay alot in income taxes, they get slammed in FICA taxes, energy taxes, sales taxes, etc.

Raising taxes now on people making 250K is just stupid.

Think about this way.

A guy who makes 250k  in NY or CA, after all taxes of all sorts, and say has a kid in college, does not qualify for aid, has to help pay the tab.  People dont realize that someone making 250k a year in income is not a fat cat rich guy.   

If the guy has a mortgage, car payment, school loans, etc, this guy is not rich at all does not need to be taxed higher.

The government should find ways to spend less, not figure out ways to reaise revenue through higher taxes.