Author Topic: The end of the Weider era.  (Read 14921 times)

Vince B

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The end of the Weider era.
« on: October 19, 2008, 03:52:59 PM »
I started lifting weights in January 1959, almost 50 years ago. In those days, the Weider business was stationed in Montreal and we saw the current Mr Canada's in the Weider muscle magazines. Joe took the publishing and supplement company to New Jersey and finally ended up in Woodland Hills in Los Angeles. Ben stayed in Montreal to run the IFBB. The pair eventually saw the IFBB dominate professional bodybuilding. They used to compete with Bob Hoffman and his empire at York who controlled the AAU bodybuilding and weightlifting contests. In those days, the Mr America title was second only to Mr Universe in London. When Bob Hoffman died that left no real competition in North America and the IFBB stepped in to take over bodybuilding. Oscar Heidenstamn also passed away and the prestige of the NABBA Universe diminished. Somehow the Mr Olympia became the top contest and that is an interesting phenomenon. It shows what marketing can do. I mean, what contest can be 'higher' than a Mr Universe! Joe conceived a contest that allowed all the top guys to compete. In retrospect, that hasn't been a blessing to the bodybuilders. What happened was that we had a few champions dominate the sport and some won several times while others missed out. Many of these contests were controversial and critics claimed that there was too much politics in the sport. Perhaps it would have been better if we had a new Mr Olympia every year. The Weiders forgot that the AAU had to make a new rule in 1941 to prevent John Grimek from winning the Mr America every year.

Ben was an authority on Napoleon. Now we know why he set the IFBB in Napoleonic fashion. The organization was run like the military. Everyone followed the leader and Ben made sure he was life president. This happened a few decades ago to prevent popular champions like Serge Nubret from being elected to be president. People get appointed to vital positions and many cannot be removed by local chapters of the IFBB. We had a system where so-called regional Vice-presidents were appointed to run the IFBB contests in their areas. Many of the first Vice-presidents were agents for Weider products. How this qualified these men to be IFBB judges is a mystery. I suppose Ben required absolute loyalty in return for rewards to the party faithful. Even the athletes rep is appointed! The main thing is that control must be maintained. What resulted was a closed organization with little flexibility to change.

Ben had a vision to make bodybuilding part of the Olympic Games. He didn't live to see that happen. While he was positioning bodybuilding as a sport he adopted a system of judging contests that resembled other sports. There were rules drawn up to control illegal substances. It all looked good on paper. However, the Olympic movement wasn't buying what Ben presented. That was inevitable when you think about how long Ben and Joe took to be the dominant force in bodybuilding. They literally had to conquer the other organizations. The legacy was that they feared that if they enforced the drug rules then the top guys would be tempted to go elsewhere where testing wasn't implemented. Thus, the sorry state in the sport today. Rules galore but few that are followed to the letter.

It has been said that those who cannot change their philosophy will take their mistakes to their graves. I wonder, now that Ben is gone, what will happen to this once noble sport? Instead of being an amazing thing to have a large, muscular body it is now associated with using banned substances. How on earth did this happen? Well, Ben ruled like Napoleon so the buck stops there. The trouble is that the machine will perpetuate what he established and his system of loyal followers will continue. The IFBB resembles the Catholic Church and not a sporting organization. Instead of having the very best involved we find a system of rewarding lesser individuals who do what they are told. That is clearly not the way to generate excellence. People complain all the time about so many things but nothing much is ever done for the athletes. It really is a disgrace the way the sport is dangerous and unhealthy. The public are not fooled. They know what is going on and there is little respect for the champions. I am not talking about the natural movement which is much better.

Ben didn't like what he saw evolving in women's bodybuilding so made sure that Bev Francis was never Ms Olympia. We saw that in the film, Pumping Iron II, The Women. Ben was there directing the judges to make sure only 'good' things happened in the sport. Rachel McLish won in Las Vegas in 1983 while the vastly superior Bev was placed an incredible 8th! Ben foolishly allowed silicon to be part of the female arsenal and look at the result today. Most people do not care to view the Ms Olympia and that should say a lot. If you don't have the right rules and criteria then it can lead to disaster. That is one legacy that Ben and the IFBB cannot be proud of.

I think it ironical that in his final year Ben was given a state honour in California by Arnold. Ben and Joe rewarded loyal followers all the time. Silver plaques for loyal supporters. Everything was official and sanctioned!

The Weiders were always shrewd businessmen. They don't personally give prize money to winners. Well, the first Mr Olympia, Larry Scott, received a silver plate and $1000. Big deal. The promoters and sponsors now finance the prize money. The promoters even have to pay the IFBB a high fee to put on these shows! The lads from Montreal were successful beyond their dreams and received some $350,000,000 for their magazine empire. If only the champions of the past shared in this windfall. Nope, we saw hapless former King of Bodybuilders pass away recently in a nursing home looking unblessed with resources. How many times did we see Clancy's photos in those magazines? There were many bitter champions who didn't get rich even though they were featured often in the magazines. Ben was part of the business empire.

I give credit for what people do. Ben and Joe were achievers. They did it their way. I doubt we will see their kind again in the Irongame. Does anyone think of Joe as being a Canadian? Well, he hasn't lived in Canada for a very long time. Ben remained French Canadian and stayed in his beloved Montreal. I smile now when I remember how Ben claimed that bodybuilding was good for nation building! The main thing they built was an empire that made them rich.

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2008, 04:07:42 PM »
One of the best posts in recent time . Well said Vince.

Everyone kisses their ass we know why .

People should be allowed to voice their oppinion .

Earlier today Ron warned me to stop sayingbad things about ben ....

Sorry Ron ... I was just trying to tell the truth ... ::)

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2008, 04:09:20 PM »
I find that point on if they were to implement drug testing in the IFBB they feared the bodybuilders would go elsewhere very interesting.

Vince B

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2008, 04:19:49 PM »
Goatboy, you will never know how much courage it takes to prepare for a contest and get up on stage and show everyone what you look like. You can't even post under your own name. John Grimek and Vince Gironda were examples of guys who said what was on their minds and bugger the consequences. They were real men. Too many of the flotsam here are anonymous nobodies with no backbone but who backstab like the clandestine cowards they are.

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2008, 04:22:46 PM »
somebody send that diatribe to Readers Digest so they can condense it for us!!

Vince B

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2008, 04:30:12 PM »
Yes, how did those 'thongs' evolve? Again, where was Ben Weider? If one wouldn't be comfortable wearing a posing costume to the beach then perhaps that is not appropriate. No argument there.

However, the great Goatboy has not enough courage to post a photo of himself on Getbig to show that he actually trains with weights. Now, THAT takes courage!

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2008, 04:33:56 PM »
Vince i want to get huge ! When will you ever post your theory on hypertophy ? 

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2008, 04:50:48 PM »
Hey Vince, you ever notice that your posts - regardless of topic - either start with 'I' or contain a lot of them!?  ;)

Vince B

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2008, 04:51:56 PM »
Joe Weider accumulated all the methods used by various champions or coined by the writers and editors and came up with the Weider methods. He didn't see what I found about training. I suppose that can happen when someone isn't right in there training away and personally seeking the answers.

Arthur Jones was right about the resistance to the truth. People prefer to cling to what they know instead of embracing what doesn't sound logical. If only muscles responded to logic! Daily in my gym I witness applied foolishness. Will there ever be an end to the false ideas in this activity? So many experts but few get big naturally. That pretty well sums up bodybuilding even today.

Vince B

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2008, 04:53:58 PM »
Hey Vince, you ever notice that your posts - regardless of topic - either start with 'I' or contain a lot of them!?  ;)

Is this is all you can say? No failed grade this time? I mean, WTF cares about what is posted on Getbig? It is a gossip AND opinion board, afterall.

Vince B

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2008, 05:37:56 PM »
Those who have not been around for a very long time probably missed all the old magazine wars and even editorials. The magazines were not very big in the old days. Your Physique, Muscle Builder, Ironman, Strength and Health, and Health and Strength were read 'cover to cover'. The man on the float who gets my vote is the Weider trained man. Days of good tasting Protein 101 until the Food people came down hard on false labelling.

Joe trained everyone. When he appeared in public at many contests he was booed. He was upset and asked former editor Bill Reynolds why they booed him. Maybe Joe never understood. If he were young and posted like that on Getbig he would be roasted more than Goodrum! Something about overdoing the expert thing. Oh, Joe was and is a big fan of bodybuilding. He told me in 1980 that all the Mr Olympias were his champions so he didn't care who won the title. That is probably true. I have no beef against Joe. Ben, however originated the rules and procedures for the IFBB and there is a lot that can be criticized about that organization. It has never been run by proper bodybuilders. Businessmen and business tactics rule that group. Jobs for the boys like a dictator would run an army. Obey and be rewarded. Disobey and be punished. Ben lived to see hapless, outspoken Lee Priest booted out for 2 long years. WTF was that all about? To me it was all misguided ego interferring in the sport of bodybuilding. The best should be allowed to compete in the Olympia. That was Joe's vision. It has failed to live up to that because of fear of losing an empire. Napoleon failed in the end and perhaps the IFBB didn't achieve what was hoped. No Olympic games. No public respect.

When I started bodybuilding I guess I dreamed of making it to the cover of a magazine. I have taken photos that made covers but that is all. I haven't been featured in an article in one of those magazines, either, so I guess I join Lee and others who aren't rewarded suitably because of our attitudes and our inability to kiss butt appropriately. Somehow we thought being he-men stood for having guts and not being meek. What a breed most bodybuilders have become.

So I guess there are some sour grapes on my part. In Australia we have Paul Graham running the IFBB local here and he is there until he no longer wants to do it. That is not democracy. No elections just the same thing year after year. He doesn't listen and doesn't have to listen. What has happened is the sport has stagnated and has even gone underground. Look at how many gyms there are in Sydney and elsewhere. Where are the crowds at contests? A mystery.

My hope is that a new wind sweeps the old out and makes a better sport when those who are capable are involved. Ben created an establishment that will be very difficult to dislodge. He, clearly, knows the muscleheads well. They follow like sheep. They dance around the stage for peanuts. Well done as a business plan. Too bad for the sport.

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2008, 05:53:08 PM »
Somebody with vision and passion for bodybuilding accompanied with a good business sense should be running the  bodybuilding circuit. It seems the IFBB likes to operate well within it's 'comfort zone' and limits operations to a freemason style of clique. Every year several people have complaints about Paul Graham yet his reign over Australasian bodybuilding continues without question. The audiences are dieing off, the competitors are not there and there is a general distaste for the current competitions amongst the community. I understand Vince Basile's frustration in that regard.

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2008, 06:46:38 PM »
Those who have not been around for a very long time probably missed all the old magazine wars and even editorials. The magazines were not very big in the old days. Your Physique, Muscle Builder, Ironman, Strength and Health, and Health and Strength were read 'cover to cover'. The man on the float who gets my vote is the Weider trained man. Days of good tasting Protein 101 until the Food people came down hard on false labelling.

Joe trained everyone. When he appeared in public at many contests he was booed. He was upset and asked former editor Bill Reynolds why they booed him. Maybe Joe never understood. If he were young and posted like that on Getbig he would be roasted more than Goodrum! Something about overdoing the expert thing. Oh, Joe was and is a big fan of bodybuilding. He told me in 1980 that all the Mr Olympias were his champions so he didn't care who won the title. That is probably true. I have no beef against Joe. Ben, however originated the rules and procedures for the IFBB and there is a lot that can be criticized about that organization. It has never been run by proper bodybuilders. Businessmen and business tactics rule that group. Jobs for the boys like a dictator would run an army. Obey and be rewarded. Disobey and be punished. Ben lived to see hapless, outspoken Lee Priest booted out for 2 long years. WTF was that all about? To me it was all misguided ego interferring in the sport of bodybuilding. The best should be allowed to compete in the Olympia. That was Joe's vision. It has failed to live up to that because of fear of losing an empire. Napoleon failed in the end and perhaps the IFBB didn't achieve what was hoped. No Olympic games. No public respect.

When I started bodybuilding I guess I dreamed of making it to the cover of a magazine. I have taken photos that made covers but that is all. I haven't been featured in an article in one of those magazines, either, so I guess I join Lee and others who aren't rewarded suitably because of our attitudes and our inability to kiss butt appropriately. Somehow we thought being he-men stood for having guts and not being meek. What a breed most bodybuilders have become.

So I guess there are some sour grapes on my part. In Australia we have Paul Graham running the IFBB local here and he is there until he no longer wants to do it. That is not democracy. No elections just the same thing year after year. He doesn't listen and doesn't have to listen. What has happened is the sport has stagnated and has even gone underground. Look at how many gyms there are in Sydney and elsewhere. Where are the crowds at contests? A mystery.

My hope is that a new wind sweeps the old out and makes a better sport when those who are capable are involved. Ben created an establishment that will be very difficult to dislodge. He, clearly, knows the muscleheads well. They follow like sheep. They dance around the stage for peanuts. Well done as a business plan. Too bad for the sport.




Vince....you just couldn't wait until they buried him to start talking shit could you?????


How about a little respect now and then once he's buried you can rant and rave about the regime
A

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2008, 06:50:47 PM »
opening post was way too long. i took one look at that shit and said 'im not reading that'

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2008, 06:52:07 PM »
Those who have not been around for a very long time probably missed all the old magazine wars and even editorials. The magazines were not very big in the old days. Your Physique, Muscle Builder, Ironman, Strength and Health, and Health and Strength were read 'cover to cover'. The man on the float who gets my vote is the Weider trained man. Days of good tasting Protein 101 until the Food people came down hard on false labelling.

Joe trained everyone. When he appeared in public at many contests he was booed. He was upset and asked former editor Bill Reynolds why they booed him. Maybe Joe never understood. If he were young and posted like that on Getbig he would be roasted more than Goodrum! Something about overdoing the expert thing. Oh, Joe was and is a big fan of bodybuilding. He told me in 1980 that all the Mr Olympias were his champions so he didn't care who won the title. That is probably true. I have no beef against Joe. Ben, however originated the rules and procedures for the IFBB and there is a lot that can be criticized about that organization. It has never been run by proper bodybuilders. Businessmen and business tactics rule that group. Jobs for the boys like a dictator would run an army. Obey and be rewarded. Disobey and be punished. Ben lived to see hapless, outspoken Lee Priest booted out for 2 long years. WTF was that all about? To me it was all misguided ego interferring in the sport of bodybuilding. The best should be allowed to compete in the Olympia. That was Joe's vision. It has failed to live up to that because of fear of losing an empire. Napoleon failed in the end and perhaps the IFBB didn't achieve what was hoped. No Olympic games. No public respect.

When I started bodybuilding I guess I dreamed of making it to the cover of a magazine. I have taken photos that made covers but that is all. I haven't been featured in an article in one of those magazines, either, so I guess I join Lee and others who aren't rewarded suitably because of our attitudes and our inability to kiss butt appropriately. Somehow we thought being he-men stood for having guts and not being meek. What a breed most bodybuilders have become.

So I guess there are some sour grapes on my part. In Australia we have Paul Graham running the IFBB local here and he is there until he no longer wants to do it. That is not democracy. No elections just the same thing year after year. He doesn't listen and doesn't have to listen. What has happened is the sport has stagnated and has even gone underground. Look at how many gyms there are in Sydney and elsewhere. Where are the crowds at contests? A mystery.

My hope is that a new wind sweeps the old out and makes a better sport when those who are capable are involved. Ben created an establishment that will be very difficult to dislodge. He, clearly, knows the muscleheads well. They follow like sheep. They dance around the stage for peanuts. Well done as a business plan. Too bad for the sport.



It wasn't your "attitude and inability to kiss butt", which prevented you from being featured in a magazine or on one.....it was your lack of a physique, and any good reason to do an article on you.

Chick

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2008, 07:02:44 PM »

arce377

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2008, 07:09:22 PM »
 Is it true, that Richards smacked Ben at a show, and was put on an eternal black list?
ARCE
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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2008, 07:10:38 PM »
got that right...

Ha, it's because he didn't take the DRUGS you did.

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2008, 08:17:56 PM »
The Weiders where the first that opened the doors for all races to compete in bodybuilding.
The IFFB is the best bodybuilding organisation ever, Ben was a great ambassador.

Vince B

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2008, 12:43:58 AM »


Vince....you just couldn't wait until they buried him to start talking shit could you?????


How about a little respect now and then once he's buried you can rant and rave about the regime

Once a person has died that is it for him/her. The funeral is for those left behind who are alive.

You are just sore that you weren't the first to announce Ben's death so a sticky could have your name on it.

My deepest condolences for the Weider extended family.

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2008, 02:02:48 AM »
It was expected for the IFBB's favourite lapdog, Chick to come and chime in .

One thing more disgusting than the weiders is the assholes that kiss their ass aka Giani Versacce aka Capt America aka Big Cheesy




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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2008, 03:33:57 AM »
No matter what, the Weiders used the bodybuilders for their own personal gain whether it be for fortune or fame.  The BB's themselves are part of the reason why they didn't share in the money generated by THEIR images and endorsements.  Any kind of rebellion or resistance against the Weiners a bodybuilder might execute put any kind of financial success out of reach.  Arnold became the poster boy for the Weiners because he did what they wanted no matter what it was or how low it was.  Arnold took advantage of that. 

How much money do you think the Weiders ever paid Arnold for all the images and support he gave them to make their empire what it became.  Everyone says how much the Weiners did for bodybuilding, but it was the bodybuilders who provided the fuel yet did not share in the fortune.  Can someone find out how much did the IFBB ever pay a bodybuilder.  Did Ben or Joe ever help a BB in need financially and I mean directly not indirectly. 

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2008, 03:54:25 AM »
Will the media blame steroids ;D.  And, has any major media covered this story like ESPN, CNN, MSNBC or anyone

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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2008, 04:16:29 AM »
One of the best posts in recent time . Well said Vince.

Everyone kisses their ass we know why .

People should be allowed to voice their oppinion .

Earlier today Ron warned me to stop sayingbad things about ben ....

Sorry Ron ... I was just trying to tell the truth ... ::)

Yep, I just hope things start to change where the atheletes can voice their opinion (Lee Priest comes to mind) without being told "tow the line or else".

The old IFBB "rule" is coming to an end like it or not... better for the sport of bodybuilding, better for the atheletes, fans, promoters everyone.

The monopolists are /dev/null




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Re: The end of the Weider era.
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2008, 08:15:42 AM »
Vince is on a plane as we speak en route to the funeral armed with a camera and his painted tiger tee shirt.