Test levels

[The ChemistV2]

Other questions for Stang50 who started this thread. Do you get enough sleep at night? Are you under stress? Are you overtraining? All of these can raise cortisol levels and thus lower your testosterone. Did you use Anabolic steroids frequently in the past? Do you drink excessive amounts of alcohol or smoke massive amounts of weed? Are you Zinc deficient possibly? All these things can make a difference.

[Van_Bilderass]

Seems to be an overcomplication of a simple compound that has been clearly demonstrated to inhibit the aromatase enzyme, lower estrogen and raise testosterone levels. From noticing an increase in my testicular size while on it, I would guess leutinizing hormone is also increased possibly to some degree. Obviously, the compound won't raise testosterone levels beyond supraphysiological levels, so it won't come close to giving steroid like effects. But that wasn't what this post was about. Instead of going the usual medical route, which means they will probably put this guy on hormone replacement, which means he has to stay on it for life, or he'll be even more supressed when he comes off, I suggested two compounds which I have noticed positive results in terms of higher hormone levels. What would he have to lose by trying a 6 week cycle of it and then having his hormones tested again? Worse case scenario, it didn't help. Best case, he found a way to make his own body produce more test instead of having to have it replaced forever. And I would love to see the study that says 6-oxo competes for any androgen receptors.

(some points)

Actually, I'm pretty sure 6-OXO increases estrogen levels. This may seem strange for an AI, but do a search for an explanation by Patrick if you're interested.

The study is in fact a study paid for by Ergopharm. A study they use to sell the product.

There's a chance the product will cause lowered test, perhaps even permanently, when you come off. I have read at least one such account where the guy felt like shit after coming off and labs said his hormones were really really off. The study showed a 3 week rebound where levels were off but what about longer cycles?

If you want health, testosterone would be the way to go and I'm sure even Patrick Arnold would agree (I think Pat is really smart). There's a lot of questions about this compound and long term effects. This is in no way a more natural or more healthy approach compared to exogenous testosterone. This is a drug, a steroidal drug with no long term research behind it.

[The ChemistV2]

(some points)

Actually, I'm pretty sure 6-OXO increases estrogen levels. This may seem strange for an AI, but do a search for an explanation by Patrick if you're interested.

The study is in fact a study paid for by Ergopharm. A study they use to sell the product.

There's a chance the product will cause lowered test, perhaps even permanently, when you come off. I have read at least one such account where the guy felt like shit after coming off and labs said his hormones were really really off. The study showed a 3 week rebound where levels were off but what about longer cycles?

If you want health, testosterone would be the way to go and I'm sure even Patrick Arnold would agree (I think Pat is really smart). There's a lot of questions about this compound and long term effects. This is in no way a more natural or more healthy approach compared to exogenous testosterone. This is a drug, a steroidal drug with no long term research behind it.

I have taken it on and off for over 3 years. Never have I had a crash from it or noticed any symptoms of lowered testorone. I've been training and taking supplements for over 25 years and know my body pretty well. The studies I've read show virtually no estrogen rebound at all after discontinuing the product. If you know of others, I'd like to read them. Because if it is proven to have adverse effects, I would definitely stop taking it. I think testosterone injections are great..if your over 50 and can no longer make your body produce adequate levels of it's own. But I see a lot of people who are relatively young being put on it for life, when all they probably needed to do was adjust their lifestyle a bit. It seems most people I know on test replacement say initially it improves their sex drive, body composition, but eventually the effects diminish and larger doses are required, and then you have to take anti-estrogens or anti-aromatase anyway to inhibit the estrogen buildup, DHt inhibitors to slow prostate growth and hair loss, possible cholesterol lowering drugs in some cases. Then cycle off and do HCG injections. That doesn't sound so great to me.

[flexingtonsteele]

(some points)

Actually, I'm pretty sure 6-OXO increases estrogen levels. This may seem strange for an AI, but do a search for an explanation by Patrick if you're interested.

The study is in fact a study paid for by Ergopharm. A study they use to sell the product.

There's a chance the product will cause lowered test, perhaps even permanently, when you come off. I have read at least one such account where the guy felt like shit after coming off and labs said his hormones were really really off. The study showed a 3 week rebound where levels were off but what about longer cycles?

If you want health, testosterone would be the way to go and I'm sure even Patrick Arnold would agree (I think Pat is really smart). There's a lot of questions about this compound and long term effects. This is in no way a more natural or more healthy approach compared to exogenous testosterone. This is a drug, a steroidal drug with no long term research behind it.

like i said, this dude needs to go back to the doctor to see if he qualifies for hormone replacement therapy.

[STANG50]

Flex I'm 35 now will be 36 come January

[flexingtonsteele]

Flex I'm 35 now will be 36 come January

u probably qualify bro, ask ur doc about it. Those test levels are low.

Try and get hormone replacement ok

[www.BrinkZone.com]

like i said, this dude needs to go back to the doctor to see if he qualifies for hormone replacement therapy.

Depends on the doc. By the lab numbers, he does not qualify. Read my article on blood work. If you are in the "normal" range, most docs will not treat. A few will, if they are forward thinking types who realize human being are more then lab numbers, but the vast majority will not.

[STANG50]

Other questions for Stang50 who started this thread. Do you get enough sleep at night? Are you under stress? Are you overtraining? All of these can raise cortisol levels and thus lower your testosterone. Did you use Anabolic steroids frequently in the past? Do you drink excessive amounts of alcohol or smoke massive amounts of weed? Are you Zinc deficient possibly? All these things can make a difference.

Chemist I get 7 to 8 hours sleep most nights. Yes I do have a fair amount of stress.( Which has gotten better as of late) I'm not over training.Never have used AAS. Don't drink but about 1-2 times a year and I don't smoke anything. Zinc I couldn't tell ya tho.

[The ChemistV2]

 Not talking about Stang50 anymore...but just out of curiosity, does anyone here believe that lifestyle issues such as excessive stress, lack of sleep, overtraining, all which can raise cortisol levels, and too much alcohol and marijuana intake can adversely affect testosterone levels. For example if a guy in his mid 20's finds he has low testosterone and he does all of the above, would you advise a guy like that first to just get on HRT or would you have him address his lifestyle first and get retested in a few weeks to see if there was an improvement. I know this type of philosophy goes against the established medical system of treating the symptom of a disorder, rather than adressing the root cause. For example, a young guy has low test..goes to the doctor and the doctor puts him on hormones. Does he ever try to figure out why the guy's test levels are low to begin with?  I mention this because a few months back I had been training hard for almost a year with no layoff, daytrading large sums of money (stress) and found I had a the symptoms of low testosterone(no libido, no pump in the gym, etc.)If I went to a doctor at that point I'm sure my hormones would have tested low. Then I took a layoff from the gym and on the 10th day, I started waking up with some serious morning wood and I knew my test levels were getting back up.

[The ChemistV2]

Chemist I get 7 to 8 hours sleep most nights. Yes I do have a fair amount of stress.( Which has gotten better as of late) I'm not over training.Never have used AAS. Don't drink but about 1-2 times a year and I don't smoke anything. Zinc I couldn't tell ya tho.

I just read this. Ok then, you may indeed be a candidate for HRT. Sounds like it's not your lifestyle.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

  Does he ever try to figure out why the guy's test levels are low to begin with?

That's why i recommended getting a referral to an endocrinologist, preferably one that specializes in male issues, HRT, etc. Even then, some may actually look for the root cause, most will not. They can track back where in the HPTA is the cause, and then take steps to treat it, and or diagnose what's causing it. Some times no cause can be found, some times it can, but it can be a lengthy and expensive process. Most docs will look at the lab numbers, and if you're low enough to treat via HRT, get you on HRT and send you out the door minus ever taking the time to figure out why you are low.

[STANG50]

Is HRT covered under most insurance policies ?

[flexingtonsteele]

Is HRT covered under most insurance policies ?

should be, cant be walking around with a limp dick at 35 bro

[STANG50]

lol thanks for the information so far.

[dogpound]

I'm 36 and my level was 442. They actually told me it was a little high . Most docs aren't cool when it comes to that stuff. Unless your level is unusually low they don't care.

[www.BrinkZone.com]

I'm 36 and my level was 442. They actually told me it was a little high . Most docs aren't cool when it comes to that stuff. Unless your level is unusually low they don't care.

400s as high? The doc is a moron. In my 20s, I often had T levels in the high 600s-low 700s. In my 30's, it was generally in the high 400s-low500s, and in my early 40s now, its in the mid-low 400s. I had one dip into 375, but next test had 430. Anything below 400 is HRT time in my view (depending on age and other variables), but few docs will treat at that point and will wait until you feel like crap, have low libido, increased bodyfat and loss of LBM, etc before they will treat. Ergo, reactive to symptoms vs pro active to avoid them. The classic medical model we currently suffer.

[WillGrant]

Depends on the doc. By the lab numbers, he does not qualify. Read my article on blood work. If you are in the "normal" range, most docs will not treat. A few will, if they are forward thinking types who realize human being are more then lab numbers, but the vast majority will not.

Agree..Docs are not "forward thinking" enough (Ive been thee) as Will says..Take his advice and seek help from an Endo they work with hormones your local Doc does not.