U.S. has plundered world wealth with dollar: China paper

[Bindare_Dundat]

BEIJING (Reuters) - The United States has plundered global wealth by exploiting the dollar's dominance, and the world urgently needs other currencies to take its place, a leading Chinese state newspaper said on Friday.

The front-page commentary in the overseas edition of the People's Daily said that Asian and European countries should banish the U.S. dollar from their direct trade relations for a start, relying only on their own currencies.

A meeting between Asian and European leaders, starting on Friday in Beijing, presented the perfect opportunity to begin building a new international financial order, the newspaper said.

The People's Daily is the official newspaper of China's ruling Communist Party. The Chinese-language overseas edition is a small circulation offshoot of the main paper.

Its pronouncements do not necessarily directly voice leadership views. But the commentary, as well as recent comments, amount to a growing chorus of Chinese disdain for Washington's economic policies and global financial dominance in the wake of the credit crisis.

"The grim reality has led people, amidst the panic, to realize that the United States has used the U.S. dollar's hegemony to plunder the world's wealth," said the commentator, Shi Jianxun, a professor at Shanghai's Tongji University.

Shi, who has before been strident in his criticism of the U.S., said other countries had lost vast amounts of wealth because of the financial crisis, while Washington's sole concern had been protecting its own interests.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE49N1XX20081024

[Slapper]

Well, if they're going to give reserve currency status to the Euro then we can pretty much kiss the value of our money good bye.

[IFBBwannaB]

I really hope that won't happen it will just become another central bank to make money out of nothing.

Watch the video I posted, a real eye opener!

[Slapper]

I really hope that won't happen it will just become another central bank to make money out of nothing.

Watch the video I posted, a real eye opener!

Well, if the value of our money derives from the accumulated value created by the output of all companies combined and these companies are outsourcing their operations to other countries, then we can pretty much say that 1) the value of our money will also be outsourced, which means that it (the value) will be in the hands of foreign countries (which is), and 2) Big Business' relationship with the American government is slowly becoming parasitic to the American economy as a whole, privatizing public funds via tax breaks and bailouts (which are already happening) and dumping the bonds backing the bailouts on the heads of the US taxpayers and their next 3-4 generations.

Pretty cool huh?

So, in essence, whether another central bank is created or not, it is really inconsequential, the problem is not putting a stop to the legalized pyramid scheme we're running.

[shootfighter1]

This is why we must not always act as a group (ie with the UN or other international groups).  The Chinese are absolutely plotting their economic dominance and encouraging the fall of the US as an economic superpower.

[IFBBwannaB]

So, in essence, whether another central bank is created or not, it is really inconsequential, the problem is not putting a stop to the legalized pyramid scheme we're running.

Fighting the ever growing debt that pulls all the strings from the shadows is the first and most important step in order to make more changes.

Fighting the outsourcing is a very hard battle and when you aren't in real control of your economy you can't do it, first stop the pyramid and then deal with the other issues.

[Slapper]

This is why we must not always act as a group (ie with the UN or other international groups).  The Chinese are absolutely plotting their economic dominance and encouraging the fall of the US as an economic superpower.

But is has nothing to do with the Chinese or the Indians though. It has all to do with over-lenient labor laws, "polished" over many decades of active lobbying, that allow and have allowed Big Business to move the part of any company that makes money (create value) to another country. The #1 premise of ANY economy, be it capitalism, communism or anarchysm is that WE MUST CREATE SOMETHING OF VALUE. Once you stop creating value, and we're slowly but surely getting to that point, our currency and economy will suffer the consequences. I mean, for many years puppets like Friedman were praising globalisation and criticizing anyone not happy with it (which should've been a red flag) for not recognizing the benefits it will (eventually?) bring to the American economy. To put it blindly, what people like Friedman are saying is that we should do eachother's laundry, get paid for it and reap the benefits of buying products made overseas at ¼ the cost. Needless to say, it kinda never works out that way... well, it may in the beginning, but once these large conglomerates price everyone out of the market and have a dominant position, guess what they do (even if it's made in China): That's right, raise prices. We can look at the sports apparel industry as an example: It costs Nike to make a pair of sneakers a whooping $ 5.00 (including transportation, raw materials, etc.) and sells it here in the States at $ 85-$ 100.00. Do you think that once companies price everyone out they will not raise prices and bring us back to square 1?

[IFBBwannaB]

But is has nothing to do with the Chinese or the Indians though. It has all to do with over-lenient labor laws, "polished" over many decades of active lobbying, that allow and have allowed Big Business to move the part of any company that makes money (create value) to another country. The #1 premise of ANY economy, be it capitalism, communism or anarchysm is that WE MUST CREATE SOMETHING OF VALUE. Once you stop creating value, and we're slowly but surely getting to that point, our currency and economy will suffer the consequences. I mean, for many years puppets like Friedman were praising globalisation and criticizing anyone not happy with it (which should've been a red flag) for not recognizing the benefits it will (eventually?) bring to the American economy. To put it blindly, what people like Friedman are saying is that we should do eachother's laundry, get paid for it and reap the benefits of buying products made overseas at ¼ the cost. Needless to say, it kinda never works out that way... well, it may in the beginning, but once these large conglomerates price everyone out of the market and have a dominant position, guess what they do (even if it's made in China): That's right, raise prices. We can look at the sports apparel industry as an example: It costs Nike to make a pair of sneakers a whooping $ 5.00 (including transportation, raw materials, etc.) and sells it here in the States at $ 85-$ 100.00. Do you think that once companies price everyone out they will not raise prices and bring us back to square 1?

You can't and shouldn't try to enforce the companies to keep the factories at the US, if the prices of employees in the US got too high than you can't blame it on other.
You should know though that the real bargains are only on the cheapest and dumbest labor, engineers in China/India just about the same as in the western world.


What you should do is encourage more smart immigration, I know people that have Phd's , great skills and experience that want to move to the US but can't it takes too long and too cumbersome. While a fence jumper got nothing to lose and will get legalize soon, but you can't work in hi-tech  without proper documents.

So the first move will be to encourage smart immigration.

The second one is to concentrate on smart industries, produce science, hi-tech, finance and that sort. More money and support into education and science will keep the US ahead and the people happy, do you really think any American want to make Nike's?

So the second step is concentrating on the advantage and the future.


Trying to fight the out sourcing of cheap labor is useless....outsourcing and robot production lines will win and they should, fight smart and don't fight windmills.

[Slapper]

You can't and shouldn't try to enforce the companies to keep the factories at the US, if the prices of employees in the US got too high than you can't blame it on other.

Well, by the same token, if the price of the product is sold at a much higher price here in the States don't we have a right, since we're on the other side of the coin, to NOT ACCEPT the product? Using the same logic, doesn't the American public have a right to not accept the tariffs imposed on any product from any other country that competes with an "American" corporation? And, to throw some free market logic back atcha: If you are not competitive enough to make it here, then maybe you shouldn't sell it here. As simple as that. What we cannot have is a "Nike situation" or a "Starbucks situation," in which companies are semi-enslaving foreign laborers and then selling their product for 10x the profit. I mean there's gotta be some ethics here. If you're selling a Mocaccino for $ 3.50 and it cost you .15 cents to bring it to market... then that is not fair, that is wage-slave conditions on either side.

You should know though that the real bargains are only on the cheapest and dumbest labor, engineers in China/India just about the same as in the western world.

You're pulling my leg right?! Most of the operations/backoffice is being outsourced, people with 4-year degrees, with MBAs, their jobs... gone. And you mean to tell me that it only applies to assembly dumbass work?

What you should do is encourage more smart immigration, I know people that have Phd's , great skills and experience that want to move to the US but can't it takes too long and too cumbersome. While a fence jumper got nothing to lose and will get legalize soon, but you can't work in hi-tech  without proper documents.

So the first move will be to encourage smart immigration.

That's right! But you know what, that will never be done. Why? Because doctors, lawyers and brain surgeons have money and make a disproportionate salary compared to other people. These rich cocksuckers have money, they have "associations", and it will never come to the point that they will allow massive "smart" immigration to compete with them and stop their gravy train. We must be, above all, realistic.

The second one is to concentrate on smart industries, produce science, hi-tech, finance and that sort. More money and support into education and science will keep the US ahead and the people happy, do you really think any American want to make Nike's?

I hate to break it to ya, but only about 27% of Americans actually get a college education. What you are implying is such a massive educational undertaking that anyone working in the education business would laugh at ya. So what I think makes sense is to work with what we have. We do have the tools to "entice" the population to get a post-secondary level education in the "smart" industries, but I bet it will get every anti-socialist nut's nipples so hard you'd find it hard to even distribute pencils and notepads. You will also encounter many obsticles from the military-industrial complex, that is a big no-no for them. And yes, America doesn't mind making Nikes for $15-30 hour. The only problem is that Americans will never accept the semi-slavery conditions American companies are able to impose on foreigners.

Trying to fight the out sourcing of cheap labor is useless....outsourcing and robot production lines will win and they should, fight smart and don't fight windmills.

Right, so your solution to the problem is to allow "American" companies to make their products overseas for a buck a piece, bring it back to the States and sell it to ya for $ 30.00. Or perhaps we should allow "American" companies to lobby (hard) the US government so that tariffs are imposed on products made in other countries that are not made by "American" companies, kinda like being able to buy a $ 5.00 Norwegian substitute to a $ 30.00 "American" product.

You see, you are leaving an important factor out of the equation: You are ok with free market competition when it comes to benefit and letting Big Business thrive and somehow, magically, create jobs here in the States, somehow make us all smarter so that we can make computer chips or semiconductors but somehow oppose the other side of the coin, the one that benefits the consumer, meaning the IMMENSE majority of AMERICAN LABOR.

[IFBBwannaB]

I simply can't support what you're saying, you want to create a closed economy by using American products only. You can endorse much harder import taxes like many countries do, but simply not allowing it like you say it way over the top for me.

And you are too hung on the notion "American companies" a company have no nationality, it's an entity that exist for profit, by your logic you wouldn't fire an expensive and not productive employee....a CEO see's numbers, no matter where they are and who they represent. He is obliged to create the best for his company and not you or your friends.

Improving education doesn't have to come in huge subsidies, increasing the quality of education on the cheaper colleges can be effectively equal to spending billions in scholarships and have a similar effects.
Taking proven quality programs from the likes MIT (and others who publish all their courses freely) and implement them in other much cheaper institutions can create leaps and bounds, sure so some community college won't have a super computer on campus, but the improvement will still be vast.


Obama's donations alone can fund a huge program in education/smart immigration or just smart infrastructure investments.

Smart infrastructure investments is another step that should be taken, instead of just talking on going green the government can make REAL incentives to promote the creation of new age technologies and factories.

For example giving GREAT incentives to a companies to build a factory that is able to produce a 1GW solar power plant per year will create jobs, help secure more of a growing market and help the environment. Instead they give BS incentives and mostly just talk about green in front of the press. How about a 100% tax free income for 5 years to help them get started and pay the taxes later on with 0% interest on them (with the taxes themselves being low), that will make people invest in the market and private people all over the world can actually afford that technology.

The numbers they throw around in the campaign make me dizzy, they're talking trillions as if they're air 

[Slapper]

I simply can't support what you're saying, you want to create a closed economy by using American products only. You can endorse much harder import taxes like many countries do, but simply not allowing it like you say it way over the top for me.

No, that is not what I'm saying at all, in fact I'm saying exactly the opposite. What I am saying is that if "American" companies are given all advantages of a free market by producing their products overseas, why am I denied the same level of "freedom" when I choose to buy a product that IS NOT made by an "American" corporation? I mean a dishwasher from Germany is applied a tariff, but dishwashers made in China by American corporations ARE NOT subject to tariffs. So, in essence, the American consumer is not given equal treatment.

And you are too hung on the notion "American companies" a company have no nationality, it's an entity that exist for profit, by your logic you wouldn't fire an expensive and not productive employee....a CEO see's numbers, no matter where they are and who they represent. He is obliged to create the best for his company and not you or your friends.

You are wrong. Corporations are indeed given free reign as far as being able to make a profit, but they are bounded by the same laws you and I are bounded to. Furthermore, ALL corporations have a mission statement (check it out yourself) and that statement usually contains an ETHICS clause in it in which they promise to act in a manner that is "approppriate". So the CEO is indeed obliged to create the best for his company, but NEVER at the human cost that some of these companies are subjecting foreign laborers to. And seriously NEVER put profit over life.

Improving education doesn't have to come in huge subsidies, increasing the quality of education on the cheaper colleges can be effectively equal to spending billions in scholarships and have a similar effects. Taking proven quality programs from the likes MIT (and others who publish all their courses freely) and implement them in other much cheaper institutions can create leaps and bounds, sure so some community college won't have a super computer on campus, but the improvement will still be vast.

Dude! Dude! Dude! Dude! Dude! Dude! Reality check here. I do not know if I made myself clear when I said that only 27% of Americans actually get a college degree. How do you expect to... let's say up that percentage to let's say 50%, out of the grace of out dear Lord? Education is expensive in the US. If you want to increase "the quality" of education it's going to cost you (the average cost per student in the US is about $ 8,000 per student per year) billions. If you want to let's say duplicate the amount of people that graduate from college then, by logic, that is going to require a doubling of what we are spending now, which would be about $ 16,000 per student.

Furthermore, and again I ask you to please appeal to reality and not the "invisible hand", "increasing the quality" of post-secondary education might have the adverse effect, meaning the 27% of American who do graduate from college might actually decrease. This is usually the case with primary and secondary education, in which the school districts have had to use Enron-style academic tactics to show that the numbers have improved, but in fact all they did is dumb the curriculum down a few notches.   

Obama's donations alone can fund a huge program in education/smart immigration or just smart infrastructure investments.

Let me be very clear about this: Obama's donations will not even cover the amount of money that will be needed to raise the 27% to even 35%. You're talking BILLIONS (and possibly a trillion,) not millions.
 

Smart infrastructure investments is another step that should be taken, instead of just talking on going green the government can make REAL incentives to promote the creation of new age technologies and factories.

Again, you're understimating the obsticle that Big Business represents when it comes to going green. To Big Business, unless they can make a profit out of something they will not waste their time. They'd rather look for oil in planet Zeutron than spend a billion doing magnetic field research or looking at whether hydrogen technology does indeed have a future or not. So, in essence, we have a world in which unless Ritchie Rich can make a buck it ain't getting done. Sounds nice and dandy at first but karma is a bitch, and one day some of us are going to have a father, a daughter or a son in a hospital getting radio or chemo and seeing him/her die because the hospital is taking everything you have and you have no money. When you do get to that point, what will you say to your daughter or wife? Will you tell her that you're going to let her/him die beause you have no more money in the bank? Is it then that you will wish that you had lived in a socialist country, where they will give you as much chemo and radio as necessary to get rid of the problem?

For example giving GREAT incentives to a companies to build a factory that is able to produce a 1GW solar power plant per year will create jobs, help secure more of a growing market and help the environment. Instead they give BS incentives and mostly just talk about green in front of the press. How about a 100% tax free income for 5 years to help them get started and pay the taxes later on with 0% interest on them (with the taxes themselves being low), that will make people invest in the market and private people all over the world can actually afford that technology.

That is so not true it ain't even funny! It's not the government's fault that nothing is getting done as far as alternative energy is concerned. The biggest, BY FAR, problem to human advancement in the form of alternative energies is the Big Oil lobby. YOU know that, I know that and EVERYONE here knows that. It's not the American people who do not want solar to get developed, it's not my state representatives (I can tell you that!) who are putting obsticles in front of hydrogen development. It's Halliburton and Exxon and BP who rather see research go undone unless THEY can make a profit. The truth is that Big Oil has spent more money in lobbying the government not to pass alternative energy subsidies that spent on alternative energy development themselves.

I do not trust anyone's "invisible hand" unless it's mine. 

[Pete Dimano]

i dont understand a damn thing about this thread.

[Hereford]

No matter what the topic, you just KNOW slapper will be on the anti-America side.

Every time....