Author Topic: Hormones=AMAZING !  (Read 40225 times)

Fatpanda

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2008, 08:37:54 PM »
i agree with candy here.

there is not one single report in the many studies i have read on steroids, that someone responded better (statistically significant) to gear than another subject. the genetic thing is another myth

if the gear is legit - all subjects will respond. the only difference is how much protein/calories the subject gets.

anyone who has seen phil's video can see he has the easiest workouts I've seen.

1 set of 10, rest 1 set of 10 rest etc etc - never breaking sweat, or even out of breath - but clearly it's enough to stimulate growth on the gear he's on.

bodybuilding is a science - its the correct amount of sets/reps/weight + correct amount of gear + correct nutrition + correct diet strategies + correct conditioning strategies = Mr o.

Some may get one or 2 of the above right and get a pretty good physique - those that get it all right are on the Olympia stage.

Also this is why there are guru's in the sport  8)
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tbombz

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2008, 08:39:02 PM »
???
what?


is this the point where you tell me "you have to be in a positive energy balance to gain muscle" ?  ::)
well, if you want to get all technical AXA, you have to be in a positive nitrogen balance to gai muscle. there is no direct correlation between lipolysis and protein synthesis, so tecchnically you dont have to be i a p"psoitive energy balance" to gain muscle.   :)

any other questions ? hahah

Fatpanda

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #52 on: October 25, 2008, 08:39:31 PM »
There is a study out there which showed the weightlifters consuming lower calories experienced a heightened neuromuscular response to the training gaining more strength  with less muscle growth. The weightlifters consuming a higher calorie diet experienced greater muscle growth with less strength gain.
can you direct me to this study - i would very much like to read it.
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ASJChaotic

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #53 on: October 25, 2008, 08:39:31 PM »
There is a study out there which showed the weightlifters consuming lower calories experienced a heightened neuromuscular response to the training gaining more strength  with less muscle growth. The weightlifters consuming a higher calorie diet experienced greater muscle growth with less strength gain.
can you post that study?
cuz it sounds retarded LOL
people get fat and think their fat is muscle

hence why I find the "bulking" and "cutting" simply retarded

io856

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #54 on: October 25, 2008, 08:40:12 PM »
Sarcasm at its finest  ;D
Nope, I wasn't being sarcastic. Show me one thing tbombz has posted which is glaringly incorrect.

wavelength

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #55 on: October 25, 2008, 08:40:57 PM »
hahaha, this thread is truly priceless. ;D

ASJChaotic

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #56 on: October 25, 2008, 08:41:19 PM »
well, if you want to get all technical AXA, you have to be in a positive nitrogen balance to gai muscle. there is no direct correlation between lipolysis and protein synthesis, so tecchnically you dont have to be i a p"psoitive energy balance" to gain muscle.   :)

any other questions ? hahah
positive nitrogen balance = anabolic state = state which you build muscle in
thanks for proving my point for not needing excess calories to gain muscle


that wasn't a question, that was a STATEMENT


"hahaha"? wtf is that there for?  :-\

io856

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #57 on: October 25, 2008, 08:42:23 PM »
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12094125?ordinalpos=15&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Effects of high-calorie supplements on body composition and muscular strength following resistance training.

Seventy-three healthy, male subjects randomly divided into 3 groups participated in a study to determine the effects of 2 high-calorie nutritional supplements on body composition, body segment circumferences, and muscular strength following a resistance-training (RT) program. METHODS: In addition to their normal diets group 1 (CHO/PRO; n=26) consumed a 8.4 Mj x day(-1) (2010 kcal) high calorie, high protein supplement containing 356 g carbohydrate and 106 g protein. Group 2 (CHO; n=25) consumed a carbohydrate supplement that was isocaloric with CHO/PRO. Group 3 (CTRL; n=22) received no supplement and served as a control. All subjects were placed on a 4-day x week(-1) RT program for 8 weeks. RESULTS: Dietary analysis revealed no significant differences in total energy consumption or nutrients at any time in the non-supplemented diets of the 3 groups. Significant (p= or <0.05) increases in body mass (BM) and fat-free mass (FFM) were observed in CHO/PRO and CHO compared to CTRL. Mean (+/- SD) increases in BM were 3.1+/-3.1 kg and 3.1+/-2.2 kg, respectively. Fat-free mass significantly (p= or <0.05) increased 2.9+/-3.4 kg in CHO/PRO and 3.4+/-2.5 kg in CHO. Muscular strength, as measured by a one-repetition maximum in the bench press, leg press, and lat-pull down increased significantly (p= or <0.05) in all groups. No significant differences in strength measures were observed among groups following training. CONCLUSIONS: Results indicate that high-calorie supplements are effective in increasing BM and FFM when combined with RT. However, once individual protein requirements are met, energy content of the diet has the largest effect on body composition.


tbombz

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #58 on: October 25, 2008, 08:44:19 PM »
AXA i have no problem with you. however your like me, two years ago. i try to save you from yourself cuz you say alot of stuff that is like basic as fuck yet you act like its so new, and most of it is like 1/10th correct only, but basically incorrect in most situations.

io856

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #59 on: October 25, 2008, 08:46:27 PM »
Sorry, guys I didn't recall that study 100% correctly. They achieved the SAME strength gains yet the higher calorie group gained MORE muscle.

Apology  ;D


ASJChaotic

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #60 on: October 25, 2008, 08:47:02 PM »
AXA i have no problem with you. however your like me, two years ago. i try to save you from yourself cuz you say alot of stuff that is like basic as fuck yet you act like its so new, and most of it is like 1/10th correct only, but basically incorrect in most situations.
I have no problem with you either  ???
I'm just discussing

I tell people the basic shit cuz they STILL get it wrong

for example: they eat over their calorie needs but all they eat is rice and fish
they think that will make them lose weight......FAIL  :-X

feel free to correct me if I am incorrect, other wise I'd never learn  :D

HeyNow

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #61 on: October 25, 2008, 08:48:44 PM »
Hormones + unbelievable genetics = AMAZING !
 ;)

Correct, genetics are very very important.


I'm sure if we all could look like heath and make six figures bodybuilding just by taking tons of roids we would.   It's not that easy people, just because all of you haters juiced and all you got out of it was 20lbs of water, tons of zits and a chip on your shoulder.  

ASJChaotic

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #62 on: October 25, 2008, 08:50:05 PM »
Sorry, guys I didn't recall that study 100% correctly. They achieved the SAME strength gains yet the higher calorie group gained MORE muscle.

Apology  ;D


well no shit the other group didn't gain as much muscle  :D

they gave the first group a diet with protein and high cals

the second NO protein, only carbs .......


wow...what a study  ::)

io856

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #63 on: October 25, 2008, 08:50:58 PM »
"During the off-season the diet should be slightly hyperenergetic (approximately 15% increase in energy intake) and during the pre-contest phase the diet should be hypoenergetic (approximately 15% decrease in energy intake)."

Lambert CP, Frank LL, Evans WJ. (2004). Macronutrient considerations for the sport of bodybuilding. Sports Med. 34(5):317-27.

wavelength

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #64 on: October 25, 2008, 08:51:39 PM »
I have no problem with you either  ???
I'm just discussing

I tell people the basic shit cuz they STILL get it wrong

for example: they eat over their calorie needs but all they eat is rice and fish
they think that will make them lose weight......FAIL  :-X

feel free to correct me if I am incorrect, other wise I'd never learn  :D

No offense, but at some point you will have to decide whether you know everything already or you can actually learn something from people with more experience. It makes no sense to bombard these people with platitudes and common gym knowledge. You will have to assume that they know such basic stuff, and some times know even better.

io856

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #65 on: October 25, 2008, 08:55:17 PM »
Simple question:

Why would a body add muscle (metabolically taxing) under an already restricted intake of calories?

I would hypothesis as others have, that the response to stress would be largely through neuromuscular improvement.

Fatpanda

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #66 on: October 25, 2008, 08:59:38 PM »
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12094125?ordinalpos=15&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Effects of high-calorie supplements on body composition and muscular strength following resistance training.

Seventy-three healthy, male subjects randomly divided into 3 groups participated in a study to determine the effects of 2 high-calorie nutritional supplements on body composition, body segment circumferences, and muscular strength following a resistance-training (RT) program. METHODS: In addition to their normal diets group 1 (CHO/PRO; n=26) consumed a 8.4 Mj x day(-1) (2010 kcal) high calorie, high protein supplement containing 356 g carbohydrate and 106 g protein. Group 2 (CHO; n=25) consumed a carbohydrate supplement that was isocaloric with CHO/PRO. Group 3 (CTRL; n=22) received no supplement and served as a control. All subjects were placed on a 4-day x week(-1) RT program for 8 weeks. RESULTS: Dietary analysis revealed no significant differences in total energy consumption or nutrients at any time in the non-supplemented diets of the 3 groups. Significant (p= or <0.05) increases in body mass (BM) and fat-free mass (FFM) were observed in CHO/PRO and CHO compared to CTRL. Mean (+/- SD) increases in BM were 3.1+/-3.1 kg and 3.1+/-2.2 kg, respectively. Fat-free mass significantly (p= or <0.05) increased 2.9+/-3.4 kg in CHO/PRO and 3.4+/-2.5 kg in CHO. Muscular strength, as measured by a one-repetition maximum in the bench press, leg press, and lat-pull down increased significantly (p= or <0.05) in all groups. No significant differences in strength measures were observed among groups following training. CONCLUSIONS: Results indicate that high-calorie supplements are effective in increasing BM and FFM when combined with RT. However, once individual protein requirements are met, energy content of the diet has the largest effect on body composition.



this is an interesting study, and unusual as i would have thought the higher protein group would have gained more fat free mass than the carb only group.

however it shows that calories only determine muscle gain, not protein :o

i will try to get a hold of the full study - this has peaked my interest.

thanks io856
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wavelength

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #67 on: October 25, 2008, 09:01:02 PM »
however it shows that calories only determine muscle gain, not protein :o

;D

tbombz

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #68 on: October 25, 2008, 09:02:00 PM »
this is an interesting study, and unusual as i would have thought the higher protein group would have gained more fat free mass than the carb only group.

however it shows that calories only determine muscle gain, not protein :o

i will try to get a hold of the full study - this has peaked my interest.

thanks io856
you will have to take into account that the study was performed on natural individuals, not bodybuilders enhancing their metabolism with AAS and other hormones. this might altr the effect of protien on body composition and muscle gain.

io856

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #69 on: October 25, 2008, 09:02:15 PM »
Yes no worries.

On that protein intake issue:

"Comparison of protein intakes on strength, body composition and hormonal changes were examined in 23 experienced collegiate strength/power athletes participating in a 12-week resistance training program. Subjects were stratified into three groups depending upon their daily consumption of protein; below recommended levels (BL; 1.0 – 1.4 g·kg-1·day-1; n = 8), recommended levels (RL; 1.6 – 1.8 g·kg-1·day-1; n = 7) and above recommended levels (AL; > 2.0 g·kg-1·day-1; n = 8). Subjects were assessed for strength [one-repetition maximum (1-RM) bench press and squat] and body composition. Resting blood samples were analyzed for total testosterone, cortisol, growth hormone, and insulin-like growth factor. No differences were seen in energy intake (3,171 ± 577 kcal) between the groups, and the energy intake for all groups were also below the recommended levels for strength/power athletes. No significant changes were seen in body mass, lean body mass or fat mass in any group. Significant improvements in 1-RM bench press and 1-RM squat were seen in all three groups, however no differences between the groups were observed. Subjects in AL experienced a 22% and 42% greater change in Δ 1-RM squat and Δ 1-RM bench press than subjects in RL, however these differences were not significant. No significant changes were seen in any of the resting hormonal concentrations. The results of this study do not provide support for protein intakes greater than recommended levels in collegiate strength/power athletes for body composition improvements, or alterations in resting hormonal concentrations."

Jay R Hoffman, Nicholas A Ratamess, Jie Kang, Michael J Falvo, and Avery D Faigenbaum Effect of Protein Intake on Strength, Body Composition and Endocrine Changes in Strength/Power Athletes. (2006) J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 3(2): 12–18.


wavelength

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #70 on: October 25, 2008, 09:03:31 PM »
you will have to take into account that the study was performed on natural individuals, not bodybuilders enhancing their metabolism with AAS and other hormones. this might altr the effect of protien on body composition and muscle gain.

Hmmm...




epic backpaddling

ASJChaotic

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #71 on: October 25, 2008, 09:03:39 PM »
Simple question:

Why would a body add muscle (metabolically taxing) under an already restricted intake of calories?

I would hypothesis as others have, that the response to stress would be largely through neuromuscular improvement.
why would a body add muscle under any circumstance?


cuz you FORCE it

webcake

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #72 on: October 25, 2008, 09:04:37 PM »
why would a body add muscle under any circumstance?


cuz you FORCE it

Are you going to juice in the near future?
No doubt about it...

ASJChaotic

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #73 on: October 25, 2008, 09:06:03 PM »
Are you going to juice in the near future?
never in my life  8)

S_Samuel

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Re: Hormones=AMAZING !
« Reply #74 on: October 25, 2008, 09:09:00 PM »
never in my life  8)

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