Are you kidding me with this?
Phil Heath won his first 2 shows on nothing against guys who were loaded to the hilt trying to stand up there next to him (this is known).....any of you guys look like Heath in the before shot clean? Thats genetics!!! If you cant tell the difference in the 2 pictures I have no idea what to say to you.
Tom Prince was freaking huge as an amateur...I interviewed him back then in the 90's and asked him what he did off the record....he said "wait a second Ill fax it over to you what i did for the nats".....30 secs later he faxed it over.....he was off for most of the year pre procard and then did dosages you would see a middleweight competitor use nowadays for a local show.
You guys keep using Tom Prince as the key to your argument....what do you expect a guy on kidney dialysis to look like? JACKED? Hmmm let me think....try to hold onto a bunch of muscle for the Getbig crew and die or atrophy down to nothing as the doctors have told him to so he can live a somewhat normal (as healthy as he can) life? Touch choice there...what should he do? What would you guys do? Die so the guys at getbig say "well at least he died in his 30's looking big, thats all that matters, not his wife and family"
I dont know if you guys are in a bubble or what....but one million people have admitted to using steroids in the USA...thats one out of every 300 people.....lets cut the elderly, children and women out of the picture and what are we down to.....1 out of every 75 guys? How many monstrously huge people do you see walking around?!?! A million? Not even close.
How many muscle boards are there? 15 big ones....all with at least 30 thousand members some with upwards toward 100 thousand members, many been around for 10 years or so......a huge amount of those members on those boards (especially the anabolic based ones) doing huge amounts of gh and juice..... how many muscle board members have you seen out of those hundreds of thousands of juiced members have put up a thread saying "Got my pro card!!!!"
http://www.getbig.com/results/mens/usamens.htm
http://www.getbig.com/results/mens/npcnationalsmens.htm
See alot of muscle message board members in the above two webpages showing the pro card winners over the last 20 something years? I dont.
There were some down and dirty anabolic based message boards over the years like Outlaw, Anabolex, Steroid.com and such over the years.....how many members turned pro?
Zero?
You guys have to be kidding me with this stuff. Easy to turn pro? Anyone can become pro size? Are you looking around you? I bet there are 50 guys in your gym right now on the sauce that you wouldnt even know are on the sauce. YOu probably walked by 100 guys in the last 3 months at the mall or wherever there was a major gathering who are doing juice who you never would give a second thought that they maybe even lifted. David Hasselhoff did juice for a number of years back in the day on Baywatch....that look like pro size to you?
I know better. I know you cannot take someone like Brent Barry at 6'5 and someone like Michael Clarke Duncan at 6'5 and make the same bodybuilder out of them......Michael Clarke Duncans genetics will destroy Brent Barry's no matter what Brent Barry does. If you think you can take someone like Jim Carrey or Woody Allen and juice them to the hills and come out with a pro bodybuilder.....theres really nothing else to say i guess
i don't know where to start on this.
first hahahahahahahahahahahaha
ha if you are really claiming that Phil heath is 'natural there'
- yes 'the gift' must be right if you think that - god must have given him genetics of a myostatin deficient belgian blue bull.
no one on this thread has claimed genetics are not needed to be an elite (top 5) level bodybuilder.
we have all agreed that muscle separation, shape, insertions, joints, bone structure, height,predisposition to certain sides etc are all controlled by genetics - and these things are what separate say Ronnie Coleman or Dennis James from kamali, or lee priest.
however there is zero evidence of genetic non responders to gear when it comes to increasing muscle mass - when on legit gear everyone grows.
Even in puberty with no change in activity the average male put on 30+lbs due to the increase in testosterone. Some have naturally higher levels ands grow more, but you get the picture.
If someone doesn't grow they are doing one or more things wrong - poor nutrition/calories and poor workouts most likely, as they might not grow a Ronnie Coleman level physique, but with lots of real gear and good food they will grow big.
the countless bodybuilders all over the net you speak of that are not monsters, how many are using legit human grade gear? how many are dedicated enough top take in a minimum 2g of protein per lb of bodyweight, or eat a minimum of 2000cal extra a day to grow consistently over months and years - how many use correct pct to keep their gains? how many really keep track of everything they eat, and know with certainty that they are doing it right, know for certain the have legit gear, know for certain that they are working out hard enough in the gym/or too hard in the gym? or know how to keep the off season mass when they start dieting?
more than likely these guys you speak of do a cycle with real gear, and grow a little then mess up pct, or mess up on calories, or half ass the gym, or do everything right, but mess up on diet while off gear by reducing protein intake back to pre gear levels - or a combination, or fake gear etc, or injuries struck, etc, but you get the picture. This is all over years too, so they may gain quite a lot, but do not have the dedication or knowledge to maintain it.
hell even with the knowledge - how many average Joes on the street are not obese? how many have normal range body fat ? people know not to eat so much junk, and to eat healthy, lower calories etc but obesity is still rife. It takes dedication and will power to achieve - the same applies to bodybuilding, not just in terms of diet, but workouts, and gear intake too
even with the determination and will power bodybuilding is all about the secrets, its all about drugs in different combinations to produce minimum sides/ maximum gains, its all about the correct ratio of macro nutrients, its about linking it all together with proper workouts in the gym, and rest when not at the gym.
if bodybuilders got everything right, they would grow maximally, and hold onto that mass maximally too - just like heath has - this is the difference not genetics.
hell Mr genetics himself ' Ronnie Coleman' was already a Pro bodybuilder who put on 50 + lbs of muscle by working with chad - now are you telling me he didn't have genetics before working with chad ? or that he was using fake gear before working with chad or under dosing? etc - of course not, chad just taught him to to combine gear and use nutrition correctly - look at the difference
there are examples everywhere of this hell even David henry (a midget
j/k) has grown a massive amount from when he first got his pro card - and stayed injury free which is even more impressive,considering his crazy far too heavy workouts. Didn't you hammer home to him the importance of protein protein protein to him? clearly it works
now the guys in the 60's and 70's who were on the Olympia stage, didn't have access to igf-1 or gh, or insulin, t3, clen etc - yet they all grew pretty well - has the genetic gene pool dried up ? or was this simply a real golden age of genetic marvels ? of course not. the gear was real, the workouts were long and hard, and the meat was plentiful
IMO the biggest problem stopping the countless Joe bodybuilder out in the net is either fake/underdosed gear or poor nutrition, or lack of discipline/patience. As the study below shows - people on testosterone sitting watching TV grow more than a natural that works out.
it is impossible for someone not to grow big if they workout, eat right and take enough gear - rinse repeat over time = bigger and better.
The effects of supraphysiologic doses of testosterone on muscle size and strength in normal men.Bhasin S, Storer TW, Berman N, Callegari C, Clevenger B, Phillips J, Bunnell TJ, Tricker R, Shirazi A, Casaburi R.
Department of Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, CA 90059, USA.
BACKGROUND: Athletes often take androgenic steroids in an attempt to increase their strength. The efficacy of these substances for this purpose is unsubstantiated, however. METHODS: We randomly assigned 43 normal men to one of four groups: placebo with no exercise; testosterone with no exercise; placebo plus exercise; and testosterone plus exercise. The men received injections of 600 mg of testosterone enanthate or placebo weekly for 10 weeks. The men in the exercise groups performed standardized weight-lifting exercises three times weekly. Before and after the treatment period, fat-free mass was determined by underwater weighing, muscle size was measured by magnetic resonance imaging, and the strength of the arms and legs was assessed by bench-press and squatting exercises, respectively. RESULTS: Among the men in the no-exercise groups, those given testosterone had greater increases than those given placebo in muscle size in their arms (mean [+/-SE] change in triceps area, 424 +/- 104 vs. -81 +/- 109 square millimeters; P < 0.05) and legs (change in quadriceps area, 607 +/- 123 vs. -131 +/- 111 square millimeters; P < 0.05) and greater increases in strength in the bench-press (9 +/- 4 vs. -1 +/- 1 kg, P < 0.05) and squatting exercises (16 +/- 4 vs. 3 +/- 1 kg, P < 0.05). The men assigned to testosterone and exercise had greater increases in fat-free mass (6.1 +/- 0.6 kg) and muscle size (triceps area, 501 +/- 104 square millimeters; quadriceps area, 1174 +/- 91 square millimeters) than those assigned to either no-exercise group, and greater increases in muscle strength (bench-press strength, 22 +/- 2 kg; squatting-exercise capacity, 38 +/- 4 kg) than either no-exercise group. Neither mood nor behavior was altered in any group. CONCLUSIONS: Supraphysiologic doses of testosterone, especially when combined with strength training, increase fat-free mass and muscle size and strength in normal men.
Phil heath has managed everything in such a short period of time, not because he's a genetic marvel, but because he has been chosen as the new face of bodybuilding, has been told the 'secrets', and has the determination to follow those secrets exactly nothing more.
