Im going to go thru your stuff point by point here.
Three guys on a muscle board named Fat Panda, Sevaste and Tbombz who have no idea of the particulars, dont know the guy, and are just making stuff up to fit their argument say Phil Heath was loaded when he was starting out. His actual friend, confidante and trainer who was giving him advice those first couple shows who is a good friend of mine says matter of factly he was on doing nothing......hmmm who should we believe.....3 guys from the net who wouldnt have a clue except for their own opinion as it is typed out on their computer or the ACTUAL guy who actually was giving him advice to come into those first 2 shows. Case closed.
The middle part of your argument....I only have a couple things to say. Some of you guys need to get off this board....your over here in a very small corner of the bodybuilding world on a very non hardcore board. There are hundreds if not thousands of guys on really hardcore boards on the net who live and die this stuff....and they are on year round, high doses, training like there is no tommorow and eating like its their last meal and they arent even close to pro size and never will be. And you know why you guys dont know about them and never heard of them.....2 reasons....1)you stay in your little bubble on this board and 2) they arent good enough bodybuilders for you EVER to hear about them, no matter what they do, no matter what they take.
What you dont think all these pro bodybuilders had friends growing up? You dont think those friends were using the same drugs and same amounts those pro bodybuilders were? You dont think some of those friends wanted that elusive glory of a pro bodybuilder? What happened to those friends? They didnt make it! Even with all that sauce and all the eating and training their genetics wouldnt allow them to become something that resembles a pro bodybuilder.
The secrets you talk about......what secrets? Do you really think there is a secret Undecyclate 57 out of Eastern bulgaria all the pro's have access to? You want your secret? A Testosterone ester and an anabolic or two and gh if someone can afford it. Theres your secret....well that book is closed. The only secret is if someone decides to abuse themselves or not. There is no secret drug or method that the pro's get handed as soon as they win their medal at the Nats or USA's......"Here Mr Jones here is your trophy for the overall, your pro card and pssssst here is the secret stack, dont tell anyone"
Your phil heath, Ronnie coleman, Dave Henry argument....im not getting it. They all have great genetics. Ronnie turned pro clean at the Team Universe at 224 or so.....are there any other 5'10" guys in this forum or any forum weighing in at 224 shredded to the bone clean and getting their pro card? And you dont think thats great genetics? With those insane genetics, which include obviously a response way above and beyond anyone else out there ergo wise he was later able to compete at 302 onstage at the Russian Grand Prix. I would say that is great genetics and response if it was me......one in a million
Your "supraphysiologic doses of testosterone" study.....great, awesome....what the heck does that have to do with proving that everyone that takes steroids like the pro's can be a pro or pro size? Anyone who takes creatine and a good protein abundant diet will pretty much be a bigger better version of themselves also. Anyone who takes steroids is going to get bigger also. The problem is you gots guys on this thread who took their first steroid cycle, gained 25lbs and think its going to keep happening up until their pro card. Heres a wakeup call....its not going to continue like that. Just like you got newbie bodybuilder gains when you started lifting, you just got newbie steroid gains....and now every true additional pound becomes a struggle.
The bottom line is if you guys ever got off this board and actually looked around you would see there are hundreds of thousands of crazy daredevils out there killing themselves for a dream on other boards. Guys using much more than pro bodybuilders to try to become one and they arent even in the top 5 best bodybuilders in their own gym. You guys are making opinions on observations....observat ions you can see........... huge bodybuilders......but what you cant see is the guy who is taking that or more than a huge bodybuilder who looks like absolute crap.....because you dont notice that guy and he is too damn embarrassed to tell anyone he is using abusive dosages to look like 220lbs of crap with 17 inch arms.....and does he look like a pro bodybuilder?.......nope and he never will. Will Brink has been around the block for 20 years, Ive been around the block for 20 years....what are we just making this stuff up? What reason other than its the truth would we be stating that we know many people juiced to the hills who dont have close to pro bodybuilding size and never will? Id love to sit here and say it works for everyone and they end up looking like Jay Cutler.....it doesnt.
oh the old, i know the guy who trained phil
i've heard it all before, and yes i'm sure the guy is going to tell you what phil takes - he has paid for that info, or learned it himself through years of experimentation, and he is going to just tell you, a guy attempting to become a guru himself
yes, i have spoken to 5 pro's, and they all swore blind they were natural
in fact every single pro on the mr o stage is natural didn't you know.
these hardcore bodybuilders you speak of - if these hardcore bodybuilders were lifting and eating like there was no tommorow, they would be getting bigger - especially on gear - this is a scientific fact.
take any person off the street and over feed him without even working out and 1/3rd of the mass will be muscle - this is backed by science.
every study done on gear shows ALL participants respond the same in terms of muscle mass gains, and have no statistically differences - why ? where are these genetic non responders or super responders
they do not exist because genetics is a bullshit excuse for people who have not been consistent enough with workouts, diet, and gear.
if they have been consistent then they are taking fake or underdosed gear - simple.
people like yourself who have never achieved a great physique, always blame genetics - but the simple fact dante is you ate too much junk food to get ripped, you always had some excuse - every single comp you were gettting into shape for always ended up the same - because you were not diceplined enough.
no there is no secret Undecyclate 57
but there are secrets in how to stack the products we do have for maximul growth or maintenance during fat loss, there are secrets in getting rid of water, while looking full, there are secrets in how to get that grainy look, there are secrets in how to diet for maximum fat loss, minimum muscle maintenance - all of which are effected by different gear combinations.
why do pro's go to chad, milos, joe mcneil, etc, if there are no secrets? whats the point if its all about the genetics ?
ronnie coleman workout out like a monster and ate like a monster long before he ever met chad - he was a big guy funnily enough. As soon as he started bodybuilding he started taking gear ( he admits this in his first video) and grew bigger - he was not natural when he won the team universe.
- then he hooked up with chad, learned a few of the secrets, took a shit load of hormones, and and grew up to his 300lb self.
i believe kamali and johnny jackson are quoted as saying things like chad wanted me to take insane amounts of drugs, etc - ronnie did it regardless, and became the greatest bodyuilder ever.
you are a clown, you claim we live in a goldfish bowl here, and talk about things we know nothing about - then you just make shit up about phil heath and ronnie coleman
talk about hypocrite, not only that but you claim we need to get to there web sites with real hardcore types, while you post on here within 5 mins everytime you are mentioned - you are deluded.
you are clearly bitter that you never made it, you never achieved the body of your dreams, not because you didn't have proper gear, or correct nutritional knowledge - but because you were simply not dedicated enough.
but instead of admitting you have a weak will and lack determination, you choose to taking the easy way out by blaming genetics - pathetic.
perhaps these 'poor genetic' types should try eating more, lifting heavier, and taking real gear, or taking more real gear while eating more, and lifting heavier -they will be surprised by the results.
