Author Topic: Redistribution of Wealth  (Read 6965 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2008, 12:40:24 PM »
Under Obama's Plan, he'll:


Cut taxes for 95 percent of workers and their families with a tax cut of $500 for workers or $1,000 for working couples.

Provide generous tax cuts for low- and middle-income seniors, homeowners, the uninsured, and families sending a child to college or looking to save and accumulate wealth.

Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses, cut corporate taxes for firms that invest and create jobs in the United States, and provide tax credits to reduce the cost of healthcare and to reward investments in innovation.

Dramatically simplify taxes by consolidating existing tax credits, eliminating the need for millions of senior citizens to file tax forms, and enabling as many as 40 million middle-class Americans to do their own taxes in less than five minutes without an accountant.

Middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan. According to the Tax Policy Center, the Obama plan provides three times as much tax relief for middle class families as the McCain plan.

Families making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in the 1990s. Obama will ask the wealthiest 2% of families to give back a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years to ensure we are restoring fairness and returning to fiscal responsibility. But no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990s. In fact, dividend rates would be 39 percent lower than what President Bush proposed in his 2001 tax cut.

Obama’s plan will cut taxes overall, reducing revenues to below the levels that prevailed under Ronald Reagan (less than 18.2 percent of GDP). The Obama tax plan is a net tax cut – his tax relief for middle class families is larger than the revenue raised by his tax changes for families over $250,000. Coupled with his commitment to cut unnecessary spending, Obama will pay for this tax relief while bringing down the budget deficit.

http://www.barackobama.com/taxes/

Hey dope - by letting the Bush tax cuts expire the rate are going up by default.  Thus, getting $500.00 from ZERO means nothing to me since the rates are going up for everyone.

Pasting propoganda from Zero's website is not indicative of the truth about his plan.  Even WSJ did a piece on this and said he is FOS.

Decker

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2008, 12:57:49 PM »
Hey dope - by letting the Bush tax cuts expire the rate are going up by default.  Thus, getting $500.00 from ZERO means nothing to me since the rates are going up for everyone.

Pasting propoganda from Zero's website is not indicative of the truth about his plan.  Even WSJ did a piece on this and said he is FOS.
Boy are you smart.

The tax cuts were sold to the american people as part of EGTRRA of 2001.  That had a sunset provision in 2010.  All the costs of the tax cut were sold on that sunset provision so it would appear to not bankrupt the country.  Bush lied.  He had the Congress remove the sunset provision.

So you learning challenged young one, the costs of keeping the tax cut as permanent became unrealistic.  Especially in light of the fact that the elite rich got more tax cut money than they paid into the system.

Propaganda?  You stupid ass hole.  That's his platform.

The WSJ's editorial page is stocked with uninformed rightwing lunatics much like yourself.

OzmO

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2008, 12:58:56 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Dos Equis

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2008, 01:01:54 PM »
What the cult followers dont want to believe and realize is that ZERO used the initial figure of 250k per year, however, once he gets in, between Reid and Pelosi, we all know that number will go far lower.

Also, by letting the Bush tax cuts expire, everyones rates are going to go up by default and thereby make any "tax cut" he pushes will be negligble at best and offset by the expiration of the Bush tax cuts.

ZERO is truly a marxist.

Plus as shoot said the $250,000 ceiling is probably going to drop. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2008, 01:04:43 PM »
Would you prefer more borrowing from the Red Chinese to pay our debts?

Does that sound like a good idea?

I know how you feel about 'spreading wealth around', are you just as concerned with spreading debt around too?

That's what we got with your fiscal conservative Bush--he more than doubled the national debt in a mere 8 years.  That's what McCain promises with his ridiculous tax cut policy.  More backloaded debt that our children cannot afford.

I prefer that we pay off our debts, quit borrowing money, cut spending, and cut taxes.  That's partly why I'm voting for McCain.  Unlike Obama, he has talked about cutting spending.  I think McCain will do a far better job of tackling our debt than Obama.  All Obama has talked about is writing checks.   

OzmO

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2008, 01:07:15 PM »
I prefer that we pay off our debts, quit borrowing money, cut spending, and cut taxes.  That's partly why I'm voting for McCain.  Unlike Obama, he has talked about cutting spending.  I think McCain will do a far better job of tackling our debt than Obama.  All Obama has talked about is writing checks.   

Don't see how that is possible with the debt we've incurred in the last 8 years.

Dos Equis

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2008, 01:24:07 PM »
Don't see how that is possible with the debt we've incurred in the last 8 years.

I'm not sure how it's going to be done, but only one person is talking about it. 

Decker

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2008, 01:33:41 PM »
I prefer that we pay off our debts, quit borrowing money, cut spending, and cut taxes.  That's partly why I'm voting for McCain.  Unlike Obama, he has talked about cutting spending.  I think McCain will do a far better job of tackling our debt than Obama.  All Obama has talked about is writing checks.   
Talk of tax cuts by both sides is irresponsible.  Had Bush run the government with an ounce of competency we could be talking about tax cuts now. 

Every single conservative candidate of the last 35 years has promised to reign in spending and every single one has failed.  The only recent president to put a dent in our debt and our spending was Bill Clinton.

Whose tax plan is closer to Clinton's?  Obama's or McCain's?

Dos Equis

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2008, 01:39:34 PM »
Talk of tax cuts by both sides is irresponsible.  Had Bush run the government with an ounce of competency we could be talking about tax cuts now. 

Every single conservative candidate of the last 35 years has promised to reign in spending and every single one has failed.  The only recent president to put a dent in our debt and our spending was Bill Clinton.

Whose tax plan is closer to Clinton's?  Obama's or McCain's?

I don't know.  Don't really care.  I just want the person with the right mindset in government. 

Decker

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2008, 01:44:41 PM »
I don't know.  Don't really care.  I just want the person with the right mindset in government. 
That's where we part company.  The proof is in the pudding.  And every single republican president of the last 35 years has been a budgetary disaster.  I say we give the young colored fella a chance.

Dos Equis

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2008, 02:46:33 PM »
That's where we part company.  The proof is in the pudding.  And every single republican president of the last 35 years has been a budgetary disaster.  I say we give the young colored fella a chance.

I disagree.  The Democrat-controlled Congress was a disaster.  We saw the same thing in Hawaii. 

Decker

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2008, 03:45:43 PM »
I disagree.  The Democrat-controlled Congress was a disaster.  We saw the same thing in Hawaii. 
What gave you that idea?  Was it the 3 out of 4 Reagan budgets with proposed spending millions more than the democrats would permit?  Or was it the hundreds of billions of dollars that Bush would ask for from his rubberstamp/rubberspined Congress?

Dos Equis

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2008, 04:14:12 PM »
What gave you that idea?  Was it the 3 out of 4 Reagan budgets with proposed spending millions more than the democrats would permit?  Or was it the hundreds of billions of dollars that Bush would ask for from his rubberstamp/rubberspined Congress?

What gave me that idea was Democrats controlled Congress for about 40 years, including during the Reagan presidency. 

Emmortal

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2008, 04:30:47 PM »
What many of you have failed to realize is that you've already been taxed incredibly under the Bush administration.  The value of the dollar has plummeted since he's been office thus making our buying power lower.  More money has been taken away from us all under Bush than Obama's plan would ever come close to.  Sorry, I don't want more of that under McSame's plan.  He says he'll cut taxes, but has never said exactly how he's going to do that with a $400 billion budget deficit.  If you truly believe you'll be better off under McCain then by all means, keep voting for a devalued dollar.

headhuntersix

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2008, 04:34:21 PM »
What gave you that idea?  Was it the 3 out of 4 Reagan budgets with proposed spending millions more than the democrats would permit?  Or was it the hundreds of billions of dollars that Bush would ask for from his rubberstamp/rubberspined Congress?


Yeah...I know that money didn't go for a good cause did it...it didn't help bury the Soviets, or lay the groundwork for the Clinton boom.....or the Tech revolution...nope we just spent it on coke and Miami Vice...it had nothing to do with the Wall coming down...nope all wasted.  ::)
L

headhuntersix

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2008, 04:44:25 PM »
In the radio interview, Obama delved into whether the civil rights movement should have gone further than it did, so that when "dispossessed peoples" appealed to the high court on the right to sit at the lunch counter, they should have also appealed for the right to have someone else pay for the meal.
Obama said the civil rights movement was victorious in some regards, but failed to create a "redistributive change" in its appeals to the Supreme Court, led at the time by Chief Justice Earl Warren. He suggested that such change should occur at the state legislature level, since the courts did not interpret the U.S. Constitution to permit such change.

"The Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of basic issues of political and economic justice in this society, and to that extent as radical as people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn't that radical," Obama said in the interview, a recording of which surfaced on the Internet over the weekend.

"It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as it has been interpreted.

"And the Warren court interpreted it generally in the same way -- that the Constitution is a document of negative liberties, says what the states can't do to you, says what the federal government can't do to you, but it doesn't say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf, and that hasn't shifted.

"And I think one of the tragedies of the civil rights movement was that the civil rights movement became so court-focused, I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and organizing activities on the ground that are able to bring about the coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change, and in some ways we still suffer from that," Obama said.

Burton said Monday the comments on the tape have "nothing to do with Obama's economic plan or his plan to give the middle class a tax cut."

"Here are the facts. In the interview, Obama went into extensive detail to explain why the courts should not get into that business of 'redistributing' wealth. Obama's point -- and what he called a tragedy -- was that legal victories in the civil rights led too many people to rely on the courts to change society for the better. That view is shared by conservative judges and legal scholars across the country," Burton said.

"And so Obama's point was simply that if we want to improve economic conditions for people in this country, we should do so by bringing people together at the community level and getting everyone involved in our democratic process," Burton continued.

John McCain's campaign said the tape proves that Obama is too liberal for the White House.

"Now we know that the slogans 'change you can believe in' and 'change we need' are code words for Barack Obama's ultimate goal: 'redistributive change,'" said McCain-Palin senior policy adviser Doug Holtz-Eakin.

"Barack Obama expressed his regret that the Supreme Court hadn't been more 'radical' and described as a 'tragedy' the court's refusal to take up 'the issues of redistribution of wealth.' No wonder he wants to appoint judges that legislate from the bench," Holtz-Eakin continued.

National Review reporter Byron York, a FOX News contributor, said the U.S. government already has a progressive tax system that gives money earned by one group to another group, but it's a matter of degree. He added that Obama's outlook on that system hasn't changed.

"It seems clear from listening to this that the Obama of 2001 and probably the Obama of today feels that the government doesn't do that enough, and I think that's probably the big point in this tape," York said.

"You've got to take him at his word," York added. "It seems to me that the tape shows that this is simply a goal he has had for a long time."

In a speech in Cleveland on Monday, McCain said the Obama interview is just another indication that the Democrat wants to increase sharply the amount of government spending.

"Today, he claims he will only tax the rich. But we've seen in the past that he's willing to support taxes that hit people squarely in the middle class, and with a trillion dollars in new spending, the most likely outcome is that everyone who pays taxes will be paying for his spending," McCain said.


Yeah...don't hold on to ur tax cut dream Libs....this prick will spend us into the ground.

L

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2008, 04:56:48 PM »

Yeah...don't hold on to ur tax cut dream Libs....this prick will spend us into the ground.


Too late, ...Bush already did that. Do try to keep up.  :D
w

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2008, 05:06:31 PM »
Too late, ...Bush already did that. Do try to keep up.  :D

Again Jag.......this is the political board. BTW, how does it feel to get taxed up the ass?

Emmortal

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2008, 05:15:14 PM »
Again Jag.......this is the political board. BTW, how does it feel to get taxed up the ass?

If there was even the faintest belief that my tax money would be spent towards the betterment of the country, then I'd have no problem with it personally.  However, the government has exploded 400% since Bush's start just 8 years ago and I fail to believe our tax money is going to go to bettering the country when it's being sucked up by the $400 billion budget deficit of the government.  And not to mention that even though Bush cut taxes, the value of the dollar dropped which is an indirect tax on our income decreasing our buying power.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2008, 06:04:04 PM »
Believing taxation equals stealing certainly is retarded.

Income Tax IS stealing.

Emmortal

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2008, 06:19:51 PM »
Income Tax IS stealing.

According to what? Your opinion? That's fine, the rest of us will follow the law.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2008, 06:31:42 PM »
According to what? Your opinion? That's fine, the rest of us will follow the law.

 Did you work for your paycheck or did someone else? Why should the government have access to your property without you having a choice in the matter? I guess your time and effort doesn't mean much to you, so you don't care that the government feels it has a right to your belongings and can dictate how much of your own income you get to keep.

Government should learn how to spend/save the huge amount of taxes they already collect without an Income Tax because so far they suck at it.

Emmortal

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2008, 06:37:07 PM »
Did you work for your paycheck or did someone else? Why should the government have access to your property? I guess your time and effort doesn't mean much to you, so you don't care that the government feels it has a right to your belongings and can dictate how much of your own income you get to keep.

Government should learn how to spend/save the huge amount of taxes they already collect without an Income Tax because so far they suck at it.

I'm not saying I agree with taxing to the extent that we get taxed, but lets get real.  We're not even in the top 20 countries as far as taxation goes.  Secondly, I do agree that the government is far too bloated and excess spending needs to be cut tremendously.  There's a $400 billion budget deficit that needs to be addressed immediately and cutting taxes isn't going to help that situation.  Without taxes we wouldn't have many of the public services we take for granted, or they'd just paid for through other mediums, which would still be the same.

It's the law that congress has a right to tax income, that's all I was pointing out, not that I agree with your above points because I do.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2008, 06:43:23 PM »
Without taxes we wouldn't have many of the public services we take for granted, or they'd just paid for through other mediums, which would still be the same.



 Your Income Tax goes to paying off the interest on the money that's borrowed/debt. Not a dime of it goes to public services.
A 400 billion dollar deficit and 90 years of collecting Income Tax. Doing the same thing year after year and expecting a different result= insanity. Count me out.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth
« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2008, 06:13:01 AM »
Did you work for your paycheck or did someone else? Why should the government have access to your property without you having a choice in the matter? I guess your time and effort doesn't mean much to you, so you don't care that the government feels it has a right to your belongings and can dictate how much of your own income you get to keep.

Government should learn how to spend/save the huge amount of taxes they already collect without an Income Tax because so far they suck at it.

Arguing with socialists is useless.  They believe the govt owns you and your labor. 

They really believe the govt should get 100% of your check and doll it out to you afterwards.

Most people have no idea that the progressive income tax is one of the tenants pushed by Karl Marx as a way to communism.  Dont bother trying to get the fools on this board to understand that because they wont.