Coach how will you feel when Obama wins?

[CQ]

The only "social" issues I take a stand on are abortion and the death penalty. I think both are wrong.

See this I can respect.

When people love the death penalty, think shooting animals for fun is fantastic, think killing Iraqi's and other people is great - but then say they are "pro life" I miss that. Need some small type of consistency..

[OzmO]

See this I can respect.

When people love the death penalty, think shooting animals for fun is fantastic, think killing Iraqi's and other people is great - but then say they are "pro life" I miss that. Need some small type of consistency..

wow.  nice.

[Dos Equis]

See this I can respect.

When people love the death penalty, think shooting animals for fun is fantastic, think killing Iraqi's and other people is great - but then say they are "pro life" I miss that. Need some small type of consistency..

I don't see any inconsistency with being pro life and supporting the death penalty.  Here is the distinction IMO:

The 14th Amendment says in part:  "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

People who are executed are killed after "due process of law," which includes a trial, legal representation, a judge, jury, multiple appeals, and often requests for clemency. 

Unborn babies don't have those protections.   

[w8tlftr]

I don't see any inconsistency with being pro life and supporting the death penalty.  Here is the distinction IMO:

The 14th Amendment says in part:  "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

People who are executed are killed after "due process of law," which includes a trial, legal representation, a judge, jury, multiple appeals, and often requests for clemency. 

Unborn babies don't have those protections.   

There are fates worse than death. IMO, the death penalty is an escape for those guilty of the heinous crime of murder.

[Dos Equis]

There are fates worse than death. IMO, the death penalty is an escape for those guilty of the heinous crime of murder.

It could be.  For some, I question whether this is true.  Take serial killers.  They don't have a conscience.  Are they really going to be sitting in jail being remorseful, when they in many instances killed over a long period of time? 

[w8tlftr]

It could be.  For some, I question whether this is true.  Take serial killers.  They don't have a conscience.  Are they really going to be sitting in jail being remorseful, when they in many instances killed over a long period of time? 

Perhaps.... but humans are also social creatures.

I'd have no problem with a serial killer spending the remainder of his pathetic life in solitary confinement.

Now some may view that as cruel and unusual punishment. My answer it that is, "and the death penalty isn't?"

[Dos Equis]

Perhaps.... but humans are also social creatures.

I'd have no problem with a serial killer spending the remainder of his pathetic life in solitary confinement.

Now some may view that as cruel and unusual punishment. My answer it that is, "and the death penalty isn't?"

That's a common sentiment.  I completely understand.  That's why some killers get life instead of death.  That's why Susan Smith (?) got life without parole.  She is the woman from South Carolina (I think?) who drowned her two kids because her boyfriend didn't want kids.  She then held a press conference and blamed the disappearance of her kids on a black man.  She actually strapped her little kids in their seatbelts and drove the car into a lake. 

Someone like that deserves to die, and I would flip the switch myself for her, but I understand why they gave her life in prison. 

[w8tlftr]

That's a common sentiment.  I completely understand.  That's why some killers get life instead of death.  That's why Susan Smith (?) got life without parole.  She is the woman from South Carolina (I think?) who drowned her two kids because her boyfriend didn't want kids.  She then held a press conference and blamed the disappearance of her kids on a black man.  She actually strapped her little kids in their seatbelts and drove the car into a lake. 

Someone like that deserves to die, and I would flip the switch myself for her, but I understand why they gave her life in prison. 

Well, think of it this way. She has the rest of her natural life to make peace with God and atone for her sins on Earth.

[Dos Equis]

Well, think of it this way. She has the rest of her natural life to make peace with God and atone for her sins on Earth.

Which includes a hot shower, three meals a day, a roof over her head, clean linen, a library, some recreation, and maybe even conjugal visits (not sure about the last one).  I'd rather she be put to sleep and let her make peace with God in the afterlife (if she believes in one).   

[w8tlftr]

Which includes a hot shower, three meals a day, a roof over her head, clean linen, a library, some recreation, and maybe even conjugal visits (not sure about the last one).  I'd rather she be put to sleep and let her make peace with God in the afterlife (if she believes in one).   

Vengeance is the Lord's.

[Dos Equis]

Vengeance is the Lord's.

True, when it comes to her eternal salvation (if she believes in that stuff).  But passing and enforcing the laws of the land is the responsibility of the people of this great country. 

[w8tlftr]

True, when it comes to her eternal salvation (if she believes in that stuff).  But passing and enforcing the laws of the land is the responsibility of the people of this great country. 

So then you're comfortable with your government executing it's own citizens? That doesn't creep you out one little bit?

[Dos Equis]

So then you're comfortable with your government executing it's own citizens? That doesn't creep you out one little bit?

Yes I'm comfortable.  No it doesn't creep me out one bit, so long as we have safeguards in place.  Some crimes deserve the ultimate penalty.  Personally, I'd include first degree murder, rape (excluding date rape), and child molestation in the group of crimes that deserve the ultimate penalty.   

[w8tlftr]

Yes I'm comfortable.  No it doesn't creep me out one bit, so long as we have safeguards in place.  Some crimes deserve the ultimate penalty.  Personally, I'd include first degree murder, rape (excluding date rape), and child molestation in the group of crimes that deserve the ultimate penalty.   

I wonder how many innocent men have been executed with those safeguards in place. I'm sure 99.999 percent of those murdered by the state are guilty as sin but it only takes the life of one innocent to put a black mark on the system.

Also, if you're going to execute for crimes like rape, why exclude date rape? Rape is rape. And since we're letting the government go on a killing spree let's toss in CEOs that fucked their stockholders and employees over then got billions of our tax dollars. I don't think anyone will miss them.

[Dos Equis]

I wonder how many innocent men have been executed with those safeguards in place. I'm sure 99.999 percent of those murdered by the state are guilty as sin but it only takes the life of one innocent to put a black mark on the system.

Also, if you're going to execute for crimes like rape, why exclude date rape? Rape is rape. And since we're letting the government go on a killing spree let's toss in CEOs that fucked their stockholders and employees over then got billions of our tax dollars. I don't think anyone will miss them.

Not to get all technical, but execution isn't murder.

I'm unaware of any innocent person being executed.  There have been innocent people on death row, but none actually executed that I've heard. 

Rape isn't just rape, just like murder isn't just murder, when it comes to punishment.  We don't punish all types of murder the same way (e.g., no death penalty for second degree murder or for manslaughter).  I'd do the same with date rape, because it really is often a he said, she said crime that involves some consensual activity.  Just my personal view. 

People who screw folks over for money should go to prison. 

[w8tlftr]

Not to get all technical, but execution isn't murder.

I'm unaware of any innocent person being executed.  There have been innocent people on death row, but none actually executed that I've heard. 

Rape isn't just rape, just like murder isn't just murder, when it comes to punishment.  We don't punish all types of murder the same way (e.g., no death penalty for second degree murder or for manslaughter).  I'd do the same with date rape, because it really is often a he said, she said crime that involves some consensual activity.  Just my personal view. 

People who screw folks over for money should go to prison. 

What is the cause of death on the death certificate of an executed inmate?

[24KT]

Dude..I'm not an accountant....I'm a tanker, door kicker..Info ops guy....i work with the media.....or more mundane shit in my current job but i'm almost done here and moving on to some fun stuff....I've never been a bean counter. Counting weapons as a tank platoon ldr in Bosnia does not make me a bean counter.

Are you saying that now that Bush will be out of office, and a Democrat will be Prez, the jig is up? 
The people (except maybe Coach) are smarter than "they" thought, and there's no more need for shills in web forums?

[24KT]

Execution isn't murder and date rape isn't rape? You're fucked!

in many cases date rape can be worse than a random rape because it involves a betrayal of trust.

I dare you to go explain to your daughter how date rape isn't rape. I hope she spits in your face! 

[w8tlftr]

Execution isn't murder and date rape isn't rape? You're fucked!

in many cases date rape can be worse than a random rape because it involves a betrayal of trust.

I dare you to go explain to your daughter how date rape isn't rape. I hope she spits in your face! 

IMO rape is one of the most psychologically scarring things that can be done to a woman.

I'd have a hard time not acting out in vengeance if anyone ever raped my wife or daughter. Odds are I'd fail and kill them anyways and find a way to morally justify my actions.

[Busted]

See this I can respect.

When people love the death penalty, think shooting animals for fun is fantastic, think killing Iraqi's and other people is great - but then say they are "pro life" I miss that. Need some small type of consistency..

Good post... Iv often wondered that... Pro life / Anti Abortion but pro War/ pro hunting...  Thats like being a Jew being a Kosher Pig Farmer

[Dos Equis]

What is the cause of death on the death certificate of an executed inmate?

I don't know.  Never seen one.  What is it? 

[Dos Equis]

Execution isn't murder and date rape isn't rape? You're fucked!

in many cases date rape can be worse than a random rape because it involves a betrayal of trust.

I dare you to go explain to your daughter how date rape isn't rape. I hope she spits in your face! 

Why don't you go back and read what I said a little closer.  I was talking about punishment.  Our society doesn't treat all murder the same way when it comes to punishment.  We don't execute people who commit second degree murder of manslaughter.   

By the same token, in terms of punishment, I don't view rape and date rape the same.  I have no problem locking up a person who is guilty of date rape, but I'd have a problem executing that person.  I think any other kind of rapist, particularly child rapists, should be executed.

Also, you have to keep in mind the astronomically high number of false rape claims.  For example:

That false allegations are a major problem has been confirmed by several prominent prosecutors, including Linda Fairstein, who heads the New York County District Attorney's Sex Crimes Unit. Fairstein, the author of "Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape," says, "there are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen."

http://www.americandaily.com/article/5075

   

[w8tlftr]

I don't know.  Never seen one.  What is it? 

Homicide.

[Dos Equis]

Homicide.

Sounds accurate to me.  It’s not a suicide.    Homicide is the killing of a person by another person.  Doesn't necessarily mean the killing was unlawful.  An execution is the justified killing of a person.  It's no more a "murder" than the killing of another in self defense, which isn't murder either.     

[w8tlftr]

Sounds accurate to me.  It’s not a suicide.    Homicide is the killing of a person by another person.  Doesn't necessarily mean the killing was unlawful.  An execution is the justified killing of a person.  It's no more a "murder" than the killing of another in self defense, which isn't murder either.     

It's still state sponsored murder.