Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?

[Deicide]

Yes, I do.  Your quote claims that all Christians are happy because we are delusional(drunk), while atheists are unhappy because they are realists(sober).  

I agree that we can be and many of us are happy.  I disagree that it is because we are delusional(drunk).

NO. NO. NO. Please, I hope you are not purposely being idiotic.

The point of the quote is that one's state of feeling, happy or otherwise, has no bearing on whether or not something is true; that evidence exists independent of subjective feelings.

[loco]

NO. NO. NO. Please, I hope you are not purposely being idiotic.

The point of the quote is that one's state of feeling, happy or otherwise, has no bearing on whether or not something is true; that evidence exists independent of subjective feelings.

Whatever.

[Deicide]

Whatever.

Very disappointing that you A) did not grasp the meaning of the quote and B) will not further engage the point. I had more respect for you than that caballero.

[loco]

Very disappointing that you A) did not grasp the meaning of the quote and B) will not further engage the point. I had more respect for you than that caballero.

Deicide, 
yes, I misunderstood the meaning of the quote.  Gracias very mucho for explaining the meaning to me!

Ha ha ha.  You never had any respect for me.   

[Oldschool Flip]

I fail to follow your logic.  Like I said, it is a mistake.  Christians make mistakes too.  This does not prove that all Christians are unhappy because Christianity makes them unhappy.  Isn't that what you are saying in this thread?

Even your atheist buddies here seem to disagree with you.

No what I asked is if they are "allowed" to be happy being that almost everything done humanly on Earth has some rejection by the Bible. Christians aren't to really care about material wealth, so are the ones that have wealth sinning? According to the Bible they are wretched. Christians are against abortion, but many have them as much as non Christians for reasons to not be unhappy.

http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/articles/christianity_abortion.html

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

Why do they do it? Because being with child would make them "unhappy". The stress and money needed is something they aren't ready for. Yet, shouldn't they rely on God to help them make it?

Then there's the helping of the poor and unfortunate. You would admit that more Christians do NOTHING on this than the few that do something. Why? Because they are happier with their lives the way it is, rather than shouldering a burden by helping the poor.

That's why I asked the question. If you followed just what the Bible told you to do strictly, how happy are you going to be?

[Eisenherz]

deicide die sint gluklich, du bist nicht, las sie sein,

[Oldschool Flip]

Yeah yeah, okay.  I got that.  But what if it wasn't because of anything you did and it was all her fault and no fault of yours?  Would you still forgive her and trust her after that?  Would you stay with her?

What's your point? I'm not a Christian so what I would do would be moot. Christians rely on their religious beliefs (as do other religions of the world) when it comes to marriage. They shouldn't be unhappy and divorce if they relied on God to help them make their choice.

[loco]

What's your point? I'm not a Christian so what I would do would be moot. Christians rely on their religious beliefs (as do other religions of the world) when it comes to marriage. They shouldn't be unhappy and divorce if they relied on God to help them make their choice.

Answering my question with a question? 

Okay, but are you going to answer my question or not? 

If you don't want to answer it, just say so.

[Butterbean]

Any family or couple psychiatrist will tell you that a spouse will stray because of mistreatment, being unappreciated, being unacknowledged, etc.

I can't agree that this is the only possible reason.    There are people who have psycho/sociopathic etc. disorders that do this type of thing through no fault of their spouse.

No what I asked is if they are "allowed" to be happy being that almost everything done humanly on Earth has some rejection by the Bible.

Could you give some example of what you mean please Oldschool?

Christians aren't to really care about material wealth, so are the ones that have wealth sinning? According to the Bible they are wretched.

We're not to put our faith in material wealth as it can be as fleeting as our health or our spouse among other reasons.  It shouldn't be our "God."

I don't see "having wealth" anywhere in the bible as referred to as being a sin. 

If we were to love our material wealth more than God or others, that's when there is a problem.

Can you please post the scripture to which you are referring when you say that people with wealth are wretched?

What's your point? I'm not a Christian so what I would do would be moot. Christians rely on their religious beliefs (as do other religions of the world) when it comes to marriage. They shouldn't be unhappy and divorce if they relied on God to help them make their choice.

But also in reference to your post some people were not Christians when they married but later became Christians.  Maybe that would also be a moot point since they didn't "rely on their religious beliefs" when they married?

Also, keep in mind that even Christians don't always "rely on their religious beliefs" when making decisions.

But I know one Pastor that feels like you Oldschool...that Christians should never divorce.

I sold vacuums door to door for more than 10 years

Quick off topic question Oldschool...what kind did you sell and what vacuum brands do you feel are the top 5?

[Oldschool Flip]

Answering my question with a question? 

Okay, but are you going to answer my question or not? 

If you don't want to answer it, just say so.

If she didn't love me anymore, it wouldn't matter if I forgave her or not. At that point the relationship is pretty much done. I would be disappointed and sad, but sooner or later I'd find someone else again IF it came down to it.

[loco]

If she didn't love me anymore, it wouldn't matter if I forgave her or not. At that point the relationship is pretty much done. I would be disappointed and sad, but sooner or later I'd find someone else again IF it came down to it.

Maybe you are misunderstanding my question.

Let's say she still loves you, and she wants you to forgive her for her mistake, for you to give her another chance and to stay with her.  Would you?

[Oldschool Flip]

I can't agree that this is the only possible reason.    There are people who have psycho/sociopathic etc. disorders that do this type of thing through no fault of their spouse.

Then it's a mental issue at that point, but not the same as a person whom is considered normal.

Could you give some example of what you mean please Oldschool?

I did STella. I think you tried to answer them.

We're not to put our faith in material wealth as it can be as fleeting as our health or our spouse among other reasons.  It shouldn't be our "God."

The problem is I've seen and know many Christians whom don't need a Mercedes or Cadillac since they could use the money to help the poor, yet they buy them.

I don't see "having wealth" anywhere in the bible as referred to as being a sin.

Wouldn't that be under "greed"?

If we were to love our material wealth more than God or others, that's when there is a problem.

Can you please post the scripture to which you are referring when you say that people with wealth are wretched?

Revelations 3:17 "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

But also in reference to your post some people were not Christians when they married but later became Christians.  Maybe that would also be a moot point since they didn't "rely on their religious beliefs" when they married?

Where in my post did I say that STella?

Also, keep in mind that even Christians don't always "rely on their religious beliefs" when making decisions.

But in marriage, not a light decision, especially when they are married in the church and in God's eyes, you would think they would call on him to get an hint or something since he's omnipotent. We're not talking buying a flat screen TV here, we're talking marriage and possible procreation of family.

But I know one Pastor that feels like you Oldschool...that Christians should never divorce.

IMO divorce happens because people whom got married really DIDN'T know the person they were marrying, but thought they did. Also many take their spouse for granted. An old saying I remember : "If we treated our friends like we treat our spouse, we wouldn't have many friends". My wife and I rarely argue, we kiss each other goodnight even if we're mad, and we always apologize after a spat. It's 10 years for us this month and we're hitting a Disney cruise!

Quick off topic question Oldschool...what kind did you sell and what vacuum brands do you feel are the top 5?

Kirby vacuum. And IMO the others are inferior. All plastic pieces of junk that are made to break down so you buy another in a few years. I've had mine for over 19 years and just had to replace the fan and belts. They may cost more , but at an average price of $200 for a decent vacuum that needs replacement after about 7 years, I've saved more than spent more.



[/quote]

[liberalismo]

Religion can work like a drug. A euphoric and a hallucinogenic drug. With all of the endorphins and god knows what else running through the veins of people hopped up on Jesus (or Allah or Buddha or substitute any fanciful deity) it is no wonder that they report being so happy and report seeing visions.

Basic human chemistry at work folks. Nothing more.

[Oldschool Flip]

Maybe you are misunderstanding my question.

Let's say she still loves you, and she wants you to forgive her for her mistake, for you to give her another chance and to stay with her.  Would you?

If she loved me and admitted it was a grave mistake, yes. I love my wife and she's the one I want to be with. She had sex before me, and I before her so the sex part doesn't really bother me. It's whether or not she's committed to the relationship or not since we have a daughter involved. Now like I said, if she wasn't committed, it means she doesn't love me anymore and you move on.

[Deicide]

deicide die sint gluklich, du bist nicht, las sie sein,

 

[Eisenherz]

awesome song, how did you come across it?
I see where you're coming from.

[Deicide]

awesome song, how did you come across it?
I see where you're coming from.

I know quite a bit about African politics and things African. It is one of my weird interests.

[Butterbean]

No what I asked is if they are "allowed" to be happy being that almost everything done humanly on Earth has some rejection by the Bible.

Could you give some example of what you mean please Oldschool?

I did STella. I think you tried to answer them.

I think you only talked about having wealth.  Could you give examples of a few more?

The problem is I've seen and know many Christians whom don't need a Mercedes or Cadillac since they could use the money to help the poor, yet they buy them.
Wouldn't that be under "greed"?

No, I don't think that would be under "greed."  Are they only supposed to ride a bike?  Or maybe that is too much and they should only walk for transportation?  Should they only eat rice and never a steak?

Maybe it's that you have a pre-conceived idea of what percentage of someone's income should go to charity?  Some people give 0%.....some give up to 100% of their yearly income.  The fact that they don't shout it from the rooftops doesn't mean they aren't giving. 

I am not being mean at all on this Oldschool, but just because you see someone with a car or whatever that you think is too expensive doesn't mean they are not giving generously and helping people.  Do you see how that is a little judgemental to think so?  I know Kirby's can't be cheap.  Did you ever feel guilty for selling a Christian a Kirby?

[Butterbean]

Revelations 3:17 "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

Oldschool, the context of Revelation 3:17 is regarding the church in Laodicea.

What is wretched is their PRIDE.  Not the fact that they have wealth.  When scriptures are taken out of context they can be confusing.

Here, you can read it in context.

To the Church in Laodicea
 14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
      These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. 21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches...

Where in my post did I say that STella?

You didn't.  I was making a comparison.  You said Christians shouldn't divorce because they used their "religion" to make their choice of spouse....what I'm saying is some people were not Christian when they got married but later became Christians so your point of them using their "religion" being a reason for not divorcing is moot.  .....sorry if that was confusing!

But in marriage, not a light decision, especially when they are married in the church and in God's eyes, you would think they would call on him to get an hint or something since he's omnipotent. We're not talking buying a flat screen TV here, we're talking marriage and possible procreation of family.

I agree!

IMO divorce happens because people whom got married really DIDN'T know the person they were marrying, but thought they did. Also many take their spouse for granted. An old saying I remember : "If we treated our friends like we treat our spouse, we wouldn't have many friends". My wife and I rarely argue, we kiss each other goodnight even if we're mad, and we always apologize after a spat. It's 10 years for us this month and we're hitting a Disney cruise!

I agree also!  And it sounds like you and your wife have a good relationship..that's wonderful! 

Will you be going on The Big Red Boat?  I hear they have good babysitting on there so yyou two can get some "alone time"

[Butterbean]

Kirby vacuum. And IMO the others are inferior. All plastic pieces of junk that are made to break down so you buy another in a few years. I've had mine for over 19 years and just had to replace the fan and belts. They may cost more , but at an average price of $200 for a decent vacuum that needs replacement after about 7 years, I've saved more than spent more.

I've heard really good things about Kirbys.  Is that the one that uses water?  Are they heavy?

What do you think of Miehle?

[Oldschool Flip]

Oldschool, the context of Revelation 3:17 is regarding the church in Laodicea.

What is wretched is their PRIDE.  Not the fact that they have wealth.  When scriptures are taken out of context they can be confusing.

Here, you can read it in context.

To the Church in Laodicea
 14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
      These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. 21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches...

Still a church is a gathering of followers, right? It's not directed at the buidling.

You didn't.  I was making a comparison.  You said Christians shouldn't divorce because they used their "religion" to make their choice of spouse....what I'm saying is some people were not Christian when they got married but later became Christians so your point of them using their "religion" being a reason for not divorcing is moot.  .....sorry if that was confusing!

So if the did become Christians after marriage, all the more reason IMO that they shouldn't divorce since they had the "light" shed upon them and knowledge from God. You gotta admit, very few Christians really read the Bible and follow it's contents to a T. I'm saying that people make themselves happy regardless if it does break scripture.

Will you be going on The Big Red Boat?  I hear they have good babysitting on there so yyou two can get some "alone time"

Disney Wonder (we went on the Magic the last time), and Palo's reservation is already set.





[/quote]

[Oldschool Flip]

I've heard really good things about Kirbys.  Is that the one that uses water?  Are they heavy?

What do you think of Miehle?

Rainbows use water. Pieces of junk and gimmick selling. Miele is good, but any cannister vacuum is inferior to uprights when it comes to cleaning the deep dirt out of carpeting.

[Butterbean]

Still a church is a gathering of followers, right? It's not directed at the buidling.

lol I know you weren't talking about the building

But the scripture you reference is a rebuke to the people in the church of Laodicea.  THey weren't getting rebuked for being wealthy but for thinking since they were wealthy they didn't need God or anything He gives them.  In reality, they wouldn't have anything good w/o God and he could take it away at any time.  The rebuke is about Pride and not Wealth.

So if the did become Christians after marriage, all the more reason IMO that they shouldn't divorce since they had the "light" shed upon them and knowledge from God.

I agree....but I don't condemn them for it (not saying you are condeming them either).

You gotta admit, very few Christians really read the Bible and follow it's contents to a T.

I'd say about zero percent of us do

Disney Wonder (we went on the Magic the last time), and Palo's reservation is already set.

Sweet

[Butterbean]

Rainbows use water. Pieces of junk and gimmick selling. Miele is good, but any cannister vacuum is inferior to uprights when it comes to cleaning the deep dirt out of carpeting.

I don't think I've ever heard of Rainbows. 

I didn't know that about cannister...I always thought those had more sucking power?


Oldschool, not to stay off topic too much but what about home carpet steam cleaners?  I steam clean quite a bit w/2 dogs living here and tend to buy Bissell steam cleaners.  But I've bought about 3 of them and the one I have now is on it's last legs.  Any steam cleaner suggestions please?

[Oldschool Flip]

I don't think I've ever heard of Rainbows. 

I didn't know that about cannister...I always thought those had more sucking power?

The reason why they don't do well is because all the air passes through a 1 1/2 tube then they try to spread that power through a portable head. Now think of vacuuming your whole carpet with just that 1 1/2 inch opening to keep the airflow higher.

Oldschool, not to stay off topic too much but what about home carpet steam cleaners?  I steam clean quite a bit w/2 dogs living here and tend to buy Bissell steam cleaners.  But I've bought about 3 of them and the one I have now is on it's last legs.  Any steam cleaner suggestions please?

It's more important to get the dirt out of the carpet with a good cleaner. Steam cleaning, which is misnamed since they use "hot water" and not steam, can do worse than you think. Here's why:

1. If you already have a lot of dirt in your carpet and mix dirt with water you make...mud. Which is much harder to suck out of the carpet than "dry dirt".

2. Practically all carpeting has padding under it. Where the carpet may feel dry on top, the padding could still be damp and wet. Damp, wet and warm conditions harbor mold and mildew. That's why some carpets smell bad even after cleaning.

3. Normally you'll remove all furniture since you don't want water "stuck" under legs, tables or cabinets since it may ruin the wood or finish.

Getting the dirt out solves the main issue. For stains, I would recommend Chem Dry or any "dry cleaning" agent. Kirby vacuums have attachments that "dry" clean carpets too. Here's a link:

&feature=related

That small tank will do that whole room. So usually the carpet dries in about an hour or less.