Author Topic: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?  (Read 6568 times)

Oldschool Flip

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Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« on: November 03, 2008, 07:15:46 PM »
With all the praising, paying homage and glorifying to God REQUIRED by Christians, it seems that happiness being human isn't part of God's plan. You're meant to suffer and be unworthy until you get to heaven. Just be happy that you are praising him. Kinda of a dull life if you ask me. Of course if you're too happy, you're not suffering enough.

loco

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2008, 02:59:46 AM »
Dang, Oldschool Flip!  Are you unemployed?  Where do you get all this free time to post so much nonsense?

Oldschool Flip

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2008, 05:44:51 AM »
Dang, Oldschool Flip!  Are you unemployed?  Where do you get all this free time to post so much nonsense?
Stay at home dad since my wife brings home over 6 figures.We could have much more money a year, but we'd rather have a parent a home for our 4 year old instead of daycare. Work part time as a fitness instructor.
Really, if you read the Bible, there is a lot of NEGATIVE connotations in it. Don't do this, kill this, obey this...etc. it's not untrue. There are a few positive ones here and there, but there is much more negative. That's why I ask.

The Luke

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2008, 09:18:27 AM »
Yes... ignorance is bliss.


The Luke

loco

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2008, 09:25:43 AM »
The Keys to Happiness, and Why We Don't Use Them

"It requires some effort to achieve a happy outlook on life, and most people don't make it."
—Author and researcher Gregg Easterbrook

Psychologists have recently handed the keys to happiness to the public, but many people cling to gloomy ways out of habit, experts say.

Polls show Americans are no happier today than they were 50 years ago despite significant increases in prosperity, decreases in crime, cleaner air, larger living quarters and a better overall quality of life.

So what gives?

Happiness is 50 percent genetic, says University of Minnesota researcher David Lykken. What you do with the other half of the challenge depends largely on determination, psychologists agree. As Abraham Lincoln once said, "Most people are as happy as they make up their minds to be."

What works, and what doesn't

Happiness does not come via prescription drugs, although 10 percent of women 18 and older and 4 percent of men take antidepressants, according to the Department of Health and Human Services. Anti-depressants benefit those with mental illness but are no happiness guarantee, researchers say.

Nor will money or prosperity buy happiness for many of us. Money that lifts people out of poverty increases happiness, but after that, the better paychecks stop paying off sense-of-well-being dividends, research shows.

One route to more happiness is called "flow," an engrossing state that comes during creative or playful activity, psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi has found. Athletes, musicians, writers, gamers, and religious adherents know the feeling. It comes less from what you're doing than from how you do it.

Sonja Lyubomirsky of the University of California at Riverside has discovered that the road toward a more satisfying and meaningful life involves a recipe repeated in schools, churches and synagogues. Make lists of things for which you're grateful in your life, practice random acts of kindness, forgive your enemies, notice life's small pleasures, take care of your health, practice positive thinking, and invest time and energy into friendships and family.

The happiest people have strong friendships, says Ed Diener, a psychologist University of Illinois. Interestingly his research finds that most people are slightly to moderately happy, not unhappy.

On your own

Some Americans are reluctant to make these changes and remain unmotivated even though our freedom to pursue happiness is written into the preamble of the Declaration of Independence.

Don't count on the government, for now, Easterbrook says.

Our economy lacks the robustness to sustain policy changes that would bring about more happiness, like reorienting cities to minimize commute times.

The onus is on us.

"There are selfish reasons to behave in altruistic ways," says Gregg Easterbrook, author of "The Progress Paradox: How Life Gets Better While People Feel Worse" (Random House, 2004).

"Research shows that people who are grateful, optimistic and forgiving have better experiences with their lives, more happiness, fewer strokes, and higher incomes," according to Easterbrook. "If it makes world a better place at same time, this is a real bonus."

Diener has collected specific details on this. People who positively evaluate their well-being on average have stronger immune systems, are better citizens at work, earn more income, have better marriages, are more sociable, and cope better with difficulties.

Unhappy by default

Lethargy holds many people back from doing the things that lead to happiness.

Easterbrook, also a Visiting Fellow at the Brookings Institute, goes back to Freud, who theorized that unhappiness is a default condition because it takes less effort to be unhappy than to be happy.

"If you are looking for something to complain about, you are absolutely certain to find it," Easterbrook told LiveScience. "It requires some effort to achieve a happy outlook on life, and most people don't make it. Most people take the path of least resistance. Far too many people today don't make the steps to make their life more fulfilling one."

http://www.livescience.com/health/060227_happiness_keys.html

loco

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2008, 09:27:09 AM »
Religious involvement and happiness

There is now extensive research suggesting that religious people are happier and less stressed.[1][2]
Surveys by Gallup, the National Opinion Research Centre and the Pew Organization conclude that spiritually committed people are twice as likely to report being "very happy" than the least religiously committed people.[3]

An analysis of over 200 social studies contends that "high religiousness predicts a rather lower risk of depression and drug abuse and fewer suicide attempts, and more reports of satisfaction with life and a sense of well-being"[4] and a review of 498 studies published in peer-reviewed journals concluded that a large majority of them showed a positive correlation between religious commitment and higher levels of perceived well-being and self-esteem, and lower levels of hypertension, depression and clinical delinquency.[5][6]

Studies by Keith Ward show that overall religion is a positive contributor to mental health[7] and a meta-analysis of 34 recent studies published between 1990 and 2001 also found that religiosity has a salutary relationship with psychological adjustment, being related to less psychological distress, more life satisfaction, and better self-actualization.[8]

Finally, a recent systematic review of 850 research papers on the topic concluded that "the majority of well-conducted studies found that higher levels of religious involvement are positively associated with indicators of psychological well-being (life satisfaction, happiness, positive affect, and higher morale) and with less depression, suicidal thoughts and behavior, drug/alcohol use/abuse." [9]

1. BBC - The science of happiness
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/happiness_formula/4783836.stm

2. Time - The New Science of Happiness
http://www.time.com/time/2005/happiness/

3. Is Religion Dangerous? p156, citing David Myers The Science of Subjective Well-Being Guilford Press 2007

4. Smith,Timothy, Michael McCullough, and Justin Poll. 2003: “Religiousness and Depression: Evidence for a Main Effect and Moderating Influence of Stressful Life Events.” Psychological Bulletin 129(4):614–36.

5. Bryan Johnson & colleagues at the University of Pennsylvania (2002)

6. Is Religion Dangerous? cites similar results from the Handbook of Religion and Mental Health Harold Koenig (ed.) ISBN 978-0124176454

7. Is Religion Dangerous? Ch 9.

8. Hackney, Charles H. & Sanders, Glenn S. (2003) Religiosity and Mental Health: A Meta–Analysis of Recent Studies. Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion 42 (1), 43-55. doi:10.1111/1468-5906.t01-1-00160

9. Moreira-Almeida Alexander, Lotufo Neto Francisco, Koenig Harold G. "Religiousness and mental health: a review". Rev. Bras. Psiquiatr. [serial on the Internet]. 2006 September, cited 2007 June 21, 2007 ; 28(3): 242-250

Oldschool Flip

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2008, 10:56:23 AM »
Religious involvement and happiness

There is now extensive research suggesting that religious people are happier and less stressed.[1][2]
Surveys by Gallup, the National Opinion Research Centre and the Pew Organization conclude that spiritually committed people are twice as likely to report being "very happy" than the least religiously committed people.[3]

An analysis of over 200 social studies contends that "high religiousness predicts a rather lower risk of depression and drug abuse and fewer suicide attempts, and more reports of satisfaction with life and a sense of well-being"[4] and a review of 498 studies published in peer-reviewed journals concluded that a large majority of them showed a positive correlation between religious commitment and higher levels of perceived well-being and self-esteem, and lower levels of hypertension, depression and clinical delinquency.[5][6]

Studies by Keith Ward show that overall religion is a positive contributor to mental health[7] and a meta-analysis of 34 recent studies published between 1990 and 2001 also found that religiosity has a salutary relationship with psychological adjustment, being related to less psychological distress, more life satisfaction, and better self-actualization.[8]

Finally, a recent systematic review of 850 research papers on the topic concluded that "the majority of well-conducted studies found that higher levels of religious involvement are positively associated with indicators of psychological well-being (life satisfaction, happiness, positive affect, and higher morale) and with less depression, suicidal thoughts and behavior, drug/alcohol use/abuse." [9]

1. BBC - The science of happiness
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/happiness_formula/4783836.stm

2. Time - The New Science of Happiness
http://www.time.com/time/2005/happiness/

3. Is Religion Dangerous? p156, citing David Myers The Science of Subjective Well-Being Guilford Press 2007

4. Smith,Timothy, Michael McCullough, and Justin Poll. 2003: “Religiousness and Depression: Evidence for a Main Effect and Moderating Influence of Stressful Life Events.” Psychological Bulletin 129(4):614–36.

5. Bryan Johnson & colleagues at the University of Pennsylvania (2002)

6. Is Religion Dangerous? cites similar results from the Handbook of Religion and Mental Health Harold Koenig (ed.) ISBN 978-0124176454

7. Is Religion Dangerous? Ch 9.

8. Hackney, Charles H. & Sanders, Glenn S. (2003) Religiosity and Mental Health: A Meta–Analysis of Recent Studies. Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion 42 (1), 43-55. doi:10.1111/1468-5906.t01-1-00160

9. Moreira-Almeida Alexander, Lotufo Neto Francisco, Koenig Harold G. "Religiousness and mental health: a review". Rev. Bras. Psiquiatr. [serial on the Internet]. 2006 September, cited 2007 June 21, 2007 ; 28(3): 242-250
And yet the divorce rate is the same amongst the religious as the non religious. So they WEREN'T happy with their marriage although the did "bind" together in God's eyes. And of course Christians aren't supposed to divorce because what (Matthew 19:6) "Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
And if you asked how many overweight Christians how really happy they are, especially in the category of physical health and look, I'm sure the numbers would be much more unhappy than happy since over half our population is overweight with a the worst in the Southern states where religion is big.
I am an optimist. I sold vacuums door to door for more than 10 years which IMO was the hardest working job I had mentally. People can train themselves to be optimistic just have to get out of the "fear" factor. Happiness starts with yourself. If you can't be happy with whom you are first, the rest is just a facade.

MCWAY

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2008, 11:08:15 AM »
Stay at home dad since my wife brings home over 6 figures.We could have much more money a year, but we'd rather have a parent a home for our 4 year old instead of daycare. Work part time as a fitness instructor.
Really, if you read the Bible, there is a lot of NEGATIVE connotations in it. Don't do this, kill this, obey this...etc. it's not untrue. There are a few positive ones here and there, but there is much more negative. That's why I ask.

The "negative connotations" usually involve immoral behavior. And the reason it's listed is because the reprecussions are often devastating to the transgressor (and unfortunately, other people). Let's see how happy you are, should (God forbid) your wife be unfaithful to you, or your chidren be disobedient. And, there's very little happiness, when someone else's sin adversely affects you.

The Keys to Happiness, and Why We Don't Use Them

"It requires some effort to achieve a happy outlook on life, and most people don't make it."
—Author and researcher Gregg Easterbrook

Psychologists have recently handed the keys to happiness to the public, but many people cling to gloomy ways out of habit, experts say.

Polls show Americans are no happier today than they were 50 years ago despite significant increases in prosperity, decreases in crime, cleaner air, larger living quarters and a better overall quality of life.

So what gives?

Happiness is 50 percent genetic, says University of Minnesota researcher David Lykken. What you do with the other half of the challenge depends largely on determination, psychologists agree. As Abraham Lincoln once said, "Most people are as happy as they make up their minds to be."

What works, and what doesn't

Happiness does not come via prescription drugs, although 10 percent of women 18 and older and 4 percent of men take antidepressants, according to the Department of Health and Human Services. Anti-depressants benefit those with mental illness but are no happiness guarantee, researchers say.

Nor will money or prosperity buy happiness for many of us. Money that lifts people out of poverty increases happiness, but after that, the better paychecks stop paying off sense-of-well-being dividends, research shows.

One route to more happiness is called "flow," an engrossing state that comes during creative or playful activity, psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi has found. Athletes, musicians, writers, gamers, and religious adherents know the feeling. It comes less from what you're doing than from how you do it.

Sonja Lyubomirsky of the University of California at Riverside has discovered that the road toward a more satisfying and meaningful life involves a recipe repeated in schools, churches and synagogues. Make lists of things for which you're grateful in your life, practice random acts of kindness, forgive your enemies, notice life's small pleasures, take care of your health, practice positive thinking, and invest time and energy into friendships and family.


I've said this multiple times (but not quite in this manner). Often, scientific research has this strange habit of producing the "DUH!!" factor. In other words, though it gets in the weeds, it often tells us what we've known from the get-go (courtesy of Biblical teachings and good old-fashioned common sense).

Everything you bolded from Dr. Lyubomirsky is something that Scripture has pointed out long ago, and you've likely heard in church.

Deicide

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2008, 11:16:18 AM »
Time to bring up a tried and true quote:

Quote
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
-George Bernard Shaw
I hate the State.

loco

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2008, 11:31:19 AM »
Time to bring up a tried and true quote:


Though I disagree with your quote, your quote still contradics what Oldschool Flip is saying in this thread.

loco

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2008, 11:35:23 AM »
And yet the divorce rate is the same amongst the religious as the non religious. So they WEREN'T happy with their marriage although the did "bind" together in God's eyes. And of course Christians aren't supposed to divorce because what (Matthew 19:6) "Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
And if you asked how many overweight Christians how really happy they are, especially in the category of physical health and look, I'm sure the numbers would be much more unhappy than happy since over half our population is overweight with a the worst in the Southern states where religion is big.
I am an optimist. I sold vacuums door to door for more than 10 years which IMO was the hardest working job I had mentally. People can train themselves to be optimistic just have to get out of the "fear" factor. Happiness starts with yourself. If you can't be happy with whom you are first, the rest is just a facade.

Yes, Christians are "allowed" to be happy.  Christians are encouraged to be happy, and the research I have posted shows that Christians have the tools to be happy.

How does your divorce argument say otherwise?  Divorce is a mistake, a big one.  Christians make mistakes too.  Divorce rate is high in the west because it's easy.  Divorce rates are much lower in countries where divorce is not so easily granted.  It has nothing to do with religion.

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2008, 11:36:13 AM »
Though I disagree with your quote, your quote still contradics what Oldschool Flip is saying in this thread.

You think that delusion is a sign of truth?
I hate the State.

loco

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2008, 11:36:54 AM »
You think that delusion is a sign of truth?

No

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2008, 11:38:31 AM »
No

Why do you disagree with the quote then?
I hate the State.

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2008, 11:40:52 AM »
of course they are happy.all sheep need a Shepard.
DAWG

loco

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2008, 11:48:13 AM »
Why do you disagree with the quote then?

I'm a Christian and I'm sober.

Oldschool Flip

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2008, 11:57:26 AM »
The "negative connotations" usually involve immoral behavior. And the reason it's listed is because the reprecussions are often devastating to the transgressor (and unfortunately, other people). Let's see how happy you are, should (God forbid) your wife be unfaithful to you, or your chidren be disobedient. And, there's very little happiness, when someone else's sin adversely affects you.
If my wife was unfaithful to me, it's because of me and something I did or didn't do to/for her. People stray because they lose connection with their spouse and get acknowledgement from someone else. So I would be MAN enough to forgive her and work on why it happened. As for disobedient children, that's a natural effect. No big deal. My point was that Christians that divorce probably prayed that the person they wanted to marry was the one. Too bad God didn't tell them. :P

Quote
I've said this multiple times (but not quite in this manner). Often, scientific research has this strange habit of producing the "DUH!!" factor. In other words, though it gets in the weeds, it often tells us what we've known from the get-go (courtesy of Biblical teachings and good old-fashioned common sense).

Everything you bolded from Dr. Lyubomirsky is something that Scripture has pointed out long ago, and you've likely heard in church.
You must be talking to someone else. I haven't bolded anything on this thread. Talk to your boy loco on bolding Dr. Lyubomirsky. Epic pwning of someone on your side of the argument.

loco

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2008, 12:03:17 PM »
If my wife was unfaithful to me, it's because of me and something I did or didn't do to/for her. People stray because they lose connection with their spouse and get acknowledgement from someone else. So I would be MAN enough to forgive her and work on why it happened.

What if it wasn't because of anything you did and it was all her fault and no fault of yours?  Would you still forgive her and trust her after that?  Would you stay with her?

You must be talking to someone else. I haven't bolded anything on this thread. Talk to your boy loco on bolding Dr. Lyubomirsky. Epic pwning of someone on your side of the argument.

I thought MCWAY was talking to me.

Oldschool Flip

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2008, 12:06:35 PM »
How does your divorce argument say otherwise?  Divorce is a mistake, a big one.  Christians make mistakes too.  Divorce rate is high in the west because it's easy.  Divorce rates are much lower in countries where divorce is not so easily granted.  It has nothing to do with religion.
If they prayed on it and "God gave them the answer" and they married in the church, only to divorce later because they weren't the "one", how can you say that it has NOTHING to do with religion. They used their faith and trusted it. They married in a church of their choice. Why not just get a court documented wedding then? They chose to use their religion as a structure to complete marriage. Not to mention that usually when people of different faiths marry, there will be disagreements just based on the beliefs. So tell me again how religion is not a factor in divorce.

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2008, 12:11:07 PM »
If they prayed on it and "God gave them the answer" and they married in the church, only to divorce later because they weren't the "one", how can you say that it has NOTHING to do with religion. They used their faith and trusted it. They married in a church of their choice. Why not just get a court documented wedding then? They chose to use their religion as a structure to complete marriage. Not to mention that usually when people of different faiths marry, there will be disagreements just based on the beliefs. So tell me again how religion is not a factor in divorce.

I fail to follow your logic.  Like I said, it is a mistake.  Christians make mistakes too.  This does not prove that all Christians are unhappy because Christianity makes them unhappy.  Isn't that what you are saying in this thread?

Even your atheist buddies here seem to disagree with you.

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2008, 12:17:16 PM »
I'm a Christian and I'm sober.

You don't understand the quote.
I hate the State.

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2008, 12:18:26 PM »
What if it wasn't because of anything you did and it was all her fault and no fault of yours?  Would you still forgive her and trust her after that?  Would you stay with her?
Any family or couple psychiatrist will tell you that a spouse will stray because of mistreatment, being unappreciated, being unacknowledged, etc. If my wife strayed it would be on me. Happy people in a marriage don't stray. It's pretty simple. Now if she got drunk or drugged, which isn't likely to happen since she does neither, of course I would forgive her since she would be mentally incapacitated.
And MCWAY thought he was talking to me, that's why he used the "religious" aspect at the end.

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2008, 12:22:02 PM »
You don't understand the quote.

Yes, I do.  Your quote claims that all Christians are happy because we are delusional(drunk), while atheists are unhappy because they are realists(sober).  

I agree that we can be and many of us are happy.  I disagree that it is because we are delusional(drunk).

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2008, 12:25:07 PM »
Any family or couple psychiatrist will tell you that a spouse will stray because of mistreatment, being unappreciated, being unacknowledged, etc. If my wife strayed it would be on me. Happy people in a marriage don't stray. It's pretty simple. Now if she got drunk or drugged, which isn't likely to happen since she does neither, of course I would forgive her since she would be mentally incapacitated.
And MCWAY thought he was talking to me, that's why he used the "religious" aspect at the end.

Yeah yeah, okay.  I got that.  But what if it wasn't because of anything you did and it was all her fault and no fault of yours?  Would you still forgive her and trust her after that?  Would you stay with her?

MCWAY

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Re: Are Christians ALLOWED to be happy?
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2008, 12:25:57 PM »
What if it wasn't because of anything you did and it was all her fault and no fault of yours?  Would you still forgive her and trust her after that?  Would you stay with her?

I thought MCWAY was talking to me.

I was, with regards to that quote. And you bring up a great point about the adultery thing. You can do everything right and STILL have your spouse cheat on you. The point I was making was that Flip's assertion of Christians being miserable, due to a list of "don't do this" and "don't do that" isn't quite right.