3 worst Presidents in History...

[Brixtonbulldog]

What was your MOS?

FC2.  I was an Aegis Weapons System tech. 

[Arnold jr]

B/c the soldiers Bush ordered to attack Iraq killed Iraq citizens defending their country from the illegal invasion.
I blame Bush b/c Iraq wouldn't have collapsed into civil war with ethnic cleansing if he hadn't ordered the invasion.
Why were they keeping the peace in Iraq?  B/c they destroyed the peace in the first place.
I can point to tens of thousands of dead that would disagree with your conclusion.
Do you mean the 1988 gassing that took place with Bush the smarter's endorsement?  Is that the gassing you're talking about? 

Did you know that Iran overran the Kurdish town and Iraq attacked?  It was a battle of the Iran/Iraq war.  Unfortunately Kurds got caught up in the battle.

Since we're talking history, how about we attack France for invading England in the Norman conquest?

I have read a lot of insane things on getbig before...this takes the cake and it's not a close contest. Disagree with the war all you want, but to even suggest that there was peace in Iraq before the war started has got to be one of the most insane things I've ever heard. It's was universally recognized as one of the most violent places on earth, with one of the most violent and immoral men ever to head a state.

When you talk about ethnic cleansing, you can't simply point to one event, it was an ongoing factor in Iraq for years, and one Saddam did not make much of an effort to hide.

[tu_holmes]

I have read a lot of insane things on getbig before...this takes the cake and it's not a close contest. Disagree with the war all you want, but to even suggest that there was peace in Iraq before the war started has got to be one of the most insane things I've ever heard. It's was universally recognized as one of the most violent places on earth, with one of the most violent and immoral men ever to head a state.

When you talk about ethnic cleansing, you can't simply point to one event, it was an ongoing factor in Iraq for years, and one Saddam did not make much of an effort to hide.

I disagree with this statement... Saddam was violent, but he was the only person who committed the violence in Iraq.

It wasn't chaos and you didn't have different factions vying for power... Saddam ran the show.

I would say Iraq is much more chaotic and violent now then it was under Saddam's rule.

[Brixtonbulldog]

I disagree with this statement... Saddam was violent, but he was the only person who committed the violence in Iraq.

It wasn't chaos and you didn't have different factions vying for power... Saddam ran the show.

I would say Iraq is much more chaotic and violent now then it was under Saddam's rule.

It's been an unstable period for the last 5 years but that's to be expected with the transition.  Now that the violence is down 90% and we've pretty much won watch the levels of violence to go down even further.  Unless Obongo pulls us out before we're finished, of course.

[Decker]

It is when our leaders are privy to information that we aren't. 
It is when considering the MANY reasons we had to go to Iraq.  Saddams intentions alone we're enough to, at minimum, prevent him from continued acts of deception and noncompliance.  You can't fail to comply a thousand times and then comply once when we say were going to use force and then claim you were in agreement. 

Who says?  You?  You goddam fool your call for murderous action cost real people their lives...and for what?  Hussein capitulated to the demands for inspections-end of fucking story!

Or do you feel it is justified payback to kill 100,000 Iraqis b/c of Hussein's untimely compliance with inspections?

Jesus Christ BB, Bush got what he wanted--he got unfettered access for inspections and yet he still ordered the attack?

How the hell do you justify that? 

For the love of god, answer that one question.

It is when our allies decided we were justified enough that they send troops of their own.

If you think that insurgents killing our soldiers was justified then I have to assume you actually are NOT so stupid as to continue lumping in the number of dead Iraqi combatants with your inflated death toll.

I believe the number of dead Iraqis is much much higher than reported b/c of the shifting verbal gymnastics the government did with counting the dead.

But you ARE an idiot so I'm sure you will anyway.

I thinks it's hilarious you claim to support the rights of a woman to defend herself from rape with force yet your side is vehemently against right to carry laws which provide said protection.  Typical spineless liberal hypocrite.

It figures.  You can't even understand analogical reasoning.  Why did I presume that you're able to debate me?

If you think the slaughter was justified you're as much a ghoul as Bush.

[Decker]

I have read a lot of insane things on getbig before...this takes the cake and it's not a close contest. Disagree with the war all you want, but to even suggest that there was peace in Iraq before the war started has got to be one of the most insane things I've ever heard. It's was universally recognized as one of the most violent places on earth, with one of the most violent and immoral men ever to head a state.

When you talk about ethnic cleansing, you can't simply point to one event, it was an ongoing factor in Iraq for years, and one Saddam did not make much of an effort to hide.

What a trite piece of unsubstantiated garbage you wrote.

So you deny that the invasion did not unleash ethnic cleansing and displacement?

Iraq is disintegrating as ethnic cleansing takes hold

Across central Iraq, there is an exodus of people fleeing for their lives as sectarian assassins and death squads hunt them down. At ground level, Iraq is disintegrating as ethnic cleansing takes hold on a massive scale.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-is-disintegrating-as-ethnic-cleansing-takes-hold-478937.html

[a_joker10]

What a trite piece of unsubstantiated garbage you wrote.

So you deny that the invasion did not unleash ethnic cleansing and displacement?

Iraq is disintegrating as ethnic cleansing takes hold

Across central Iraq, there is an exodus of people fleeing for their lives as sectarian assassins and death squads hunt them down. At ground level, Iraq is disintegrating as ethnic cleansing takes hold on a massive scale.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-is-disintegrating-as-ethnic-cleansing-takes-hold-478937.html

There was ethnic cleansing before.
I already pointed you to human rights watch and the UN which have both documented it.

[Decker]

There was ethnic cleansing before.
I already pointed you to human rights watch and the UN which have both documented it.

As I already pointed out, Hussein was barbarous.  But the main claim of ethnic cleansing points to a battle in the Iran/Iraq war and not the type unleashed by the invasion.

Do you deny that the invasion unleashed a civil war that culminated with large scale ethnic cleansing?

[a_joker10]

As I already pointed out, Hussein was barbarous.  But the main claim of ethnic cleansing points to a battle in the Iran/Iraq war and not the type unleashed by the invasion.

Do you deny that the invasion unleashed a civil war that culminated with large scale ethnic cleansing?

Ethnic Cleansing was happening at the same scale as before the war.
The forced migration of Shias and Arabs, the displacement of the Kurds and over 1 million killed by starvation by Saddam in the ten years following the gulf war.
Almost all of the starving were from Shia and Kurdish areas.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_/ai_n14065078
http://hrw.org/reports/1992/Iraq926.htm

[Decker]

Ethnic Cleansing was happening at the same scale as before the war.
The forced migration of Shias and Arabs, the displacement of the Kurds and over 1 million killed by starvation by Saddam in the ten years following the gulf war.
Almost all of the starving were from Shia and Kurdish areas.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_/ai_n14065078
http://hrw.org/reports/1992/Iraq926.htm

INteresting.  Again, you refer to effects of the Iran/Iraq war.

So why did EC blossom under the protective occupation of US/coalition forces?

I think I know why: the country devolved into civil war and E/C b/c the invasion destabalized the country.  The Sunni Minority lost power and was on the run b/c they were outnumbered by the Shia majority.  Death squads cleansed neighborhoods so that Shia families could move in.

[a_joker10]

INteresting.  Again, you refer to effects of the Iran/Iraq war.

So why did EC blossom under the protective occupation of US/coalition forces?

I think I know why: the country devolved into civil war and E/C b/c the invasion destabalized the country.  The Sunni Minority lost power and was on the run b/c they were outnumbered by the Shia majority.  Death squads cleansed neighborhoods so that Shia families could move in.

There is the some truth to that. Sunni's treated Kurds and Shia like crap. Now that Shia has power, specific groups started to target the ones that went after them.

Another thing that happened IMO is the forced relocation of people, brought groups together that despise each other, with one groups(Arabs) having all of the power. The oppressed groups  were looking for a reason to fight and to gain back what used to be there own land.

Relocation and settlement has caused many problems, the relocated settled people feel the land is theirs. The others don't.

[Decker]

There is the some truth to that. Sunni's treated Kurds and Shia like crap. Now that Shia has power, specific groups started to target the ones that went after them.

Another thing that happened IMO is the forced relocation of people, brought groups together that despise each other, with one groups(Arabs) having all of the power. The oppressed groups  were looking for a reason to fight and to gain back what used to be there own land.

Relocation and settlement has caused many problems, the relocated settled people feel the land is theirs. The others don't.

I would agree with a lot of what you just said.

I don't know why we just don't offer up Greenland to these middleeastern assholes.  Let 'em have their holylands over there.

[a_joker10]

I would agree with a lot of what you just said.

I don't know why we just don't offer up Greenland to these middleeastern assholes.  Let 'em have their holylands over there.

Yep, No one fights when its 40 below.

[Brixtonbulldog]

Who says?  You?  You goddam fool your call for murderous action cost real people their lives...and for what?  Hussein capitulated to the demands for inspections-end of fucking story!

Or do you feel it is justified payback to kill 100,000 Iraqis b/c of Hussein's untimely compliance with inspections?

Jesus Christ BB, Bush got what he wanted--he got unfettered access for inspections and yet he still ordered the attack?

How the hell do you justify that? 

For the love of god, answer that one question.

I believe the number of dead Iraqis is much much higher than reported b/c of the shifting verbal gymnastics the government did with counting the dead.
It figures.  You can't even understand analogical reasoning.  Why did I presume that you're able to debate me?

If you think the slaughter was justified you're as much a ghoul as Bush.

The only reason he STARTED getting any real access was due to the use of force being imminent.  Do you not understand that words have to be backed up with actions?  Saddam basically waited until we were on our way before saying, "Ok, ok.. you got me!!"  How many times does this have to happen?  For how many YEARS???  It had to end sometime.

There's no debate Decker.  You're so far off the reservation with your absurd "Bush is a mass murderer...  Bush is eeeeevil." nonsense all you've succeeded in doing is showing your extremism and your ignorance.  The fact that you are so biased left as to stand out, even in the getbig liberal crowd is testament to your radical and absurd views.

[Decker]

The only reason he STARTED getting any real access was due to the use of force being imminent.  Do you not understand that words have to be backed up with actions?  Saddam basically waited until we were on our way before saying, "Ok, ok.. you got me!!"  How many times does this have to happen?  For how many YEARS???  It had to end sometime.

There's no debate Decker.  You're so far off the reservation with your absurd "Bush is a mass murderer...  Bush is eeeeevil." nonsense all you've succeeded in doing is showing your extremism and your ignorance.  The fact that you are so biased left as to stand out, even in the getbig liberal crowd is testament to your radical and absurd views.

Yes, I don't doubt for a minute that Bush's sabre rattling compelled Hussein to comply.

But Bush went too far.

Apparently you're ok with the butchering of the kids and the women and men b/c of some maladroit political ploy.

Your humanity is in question.

Call me a lefty all you want.  It beats being sub-human.

My protestations are not a testament, they are a testimony to the things that make America great: honor of the law, respect for human life and justified self-defense.

You, your perspective pays tribute to the Nazi heritage:  deadly illegality, war of aggression, and killing without conscience.

[Brixtonbulldog]

Yes, I don't doubt for a minute that Bush's sabre rattling compelled Hussein to comply.

But Bush went too far.

Apparently you're ok with the butchering of the kids and the women and men b/c of some maladroit political ploy.

Your humanity is in question.

Call me a lefty all you want.  It beats being sub-human.

My protestations are not a testament, they are a testimony to the things that make America great: honor of the law, respect for human life and justified self-defense.

You, your perspective pays tribute to the Nazi heritage:  deadly illegality, war of aggression, and killing without conscience.

Oh but putting an end to someone as close to Hitler as Hussein was is bad?  Please.  He butchered enough women and children and yet you defend him and his regime?  Americans weren't going into houses shooting women and children yet Saddam proved to be fully willing to do that.

Feel free to remove your foot from your mouth.

[Decker]

Oh but putting an end to someone as close to Hitler as Hussein was is bad?  Please.  He butchered enough women and children and yet you defend him and his regime?  Americans weren't going into houses shooting women and children yet Saddam proved to be fully willing to do that.

Feel free to remove your foot from your mouth.

Is there no piece of garbage propaganda so ridiculous that you won't run with it.

Hussein was not Hitler.  Not even close.  End of story.

I don't defend Hussein.  Read with comprehension.  I criticize the immoral and illegal acts of my own country.

Again, those kids and women died tripping in their living rooms right?

This kid mixed pop rocks and coke right?

[a_joker10]

Decker you show no limits.

The fact is that 73 members of the senate voted to authorize the president to use the Armed Forces in Iraq.
Many of them were on the intel committee and oversaw the intelligence gathering in Iraq.
They were onside with GWB and many still agree that the war was right.

Also the President does need approval of the senate and congress to use the military. It is built into the constitution.

You only want to blame one person for all of these problems.
But the fact is both sides are equally responsible.
A plurality of democrats signed onto the Iraq war and almost half of the intel committee was democrat.

[Brixtonbulldog]

Is there no piece of garbage propaganda so ridiculous that you won't run with it.

Hussein was not Hitler.  Not even close.  End of story.

I don't defend Hussein.  Read with comprehension.  I criticize the immoral and illegal acts of my own country.

Again, those kids and women died tripping in their living rooms right?

This kid mixed pop rocks and coke right?

Blaming Bush as being responsible for that is quite a stretch.  Every other President who has led a war has had to deal with collateral damage yet it's only Bush who is a mass murderer?  The man puts an end to someone eerily similar to Hitler himself you cry foul.  You should be ashamed.. Saddam caused more of what you see in that picture and would have continued to do so if not for GWB.  

[hapamuscle]

Judging by my own experience and how they have effected me, my list was impossible to make.  I was born in 1981 and really didn't care about a president till Bill Clinton.  History books are full of lies so I am just going to go by my own experience and say that so far the worst President of my lifetime is George W. Bush

[Decker]

Decker you show no limits.

The fact is that 73 members of the senate voted to authorize the president to use the Armed Forces in Iraq.
Many of them were on the intel committee and oversaw the intelligence gathering in Iraq.
They were onside with GWB and many still agree that the war was right.

Also the President does need approval of the senate and congress to use the military. It is built into the constitution.

You only want to blame one person for all of these problems.
But the fact is both sides are equally responsible.
A plurality of democrats signed onto the Iraq war and almost half of the intel committee was democrat.

Only the president of the USA can order the troops into action.  That's a constitutional fact.

All the other apportionments of blame take a backseat to that supreme consideration.

[Decker]

Blaming Bush as being responsible for that is quite a stretch.  Every other President who has led a war has had to deal with collateral damage yet it's only Bush who is a mass murderer?  The man puts an end to someone eerily similar to Hitler himself you cry foul.  You should be ashamed.. Saddam caused more of what you see in that picture and would have continued to do so if not for GWB.  

But for the Bush ordered invasion, that kid is not hamburger.

Bush caused the injuries to that child.  Not Hussein.  It was Bush.

Bush has ruined the lives millions of people.  He's killed tens of thousands of innocents without justification.

He's a mass murderer who deserves retribution.

[garebear]

Blaming Bush as being responsible for that is quite a stretch.  Every other President who has led a war has had to deal with collateral damage yet it's only Bush who is a mass murderer?  The man puts an end to someone eerily similar to Hitler himself you cry foul.  You should be ashamed.. Saddam caused more of what you see in that picture and would have continued to do so if not for GWB.  

Grow up and stop comparing everyone to Hitler for political purposes.

Go read a book.

[Buffgeek]

But for the Bush ordered invasion, that kid is not hamburger.

Bush caused the injuries to that child.  Not Hussein.  It was Bush.

Bush has ruined the lives millions of people.  He's killed tens of thousands of innocents without justification.

He's a mass murderer who deserves retribution.

Decker what is that childs name? How did that happen? did an american soldier do that? or did someone who was trying to kill our soldiers or Iraqis who are working with us?

How did he ruin their lives? What tens of thousands of innocents were killed by Bush and our troops? Last time I checked our soldiers were bieng shot and attacked via mines and IDE and suicide bombers.

When iraqis try to vote for their newly found goverment and are taken out and beaten or threatedned or when the new police for is abducted and killed for trying to work with us to protect thier homes is that Bushes fault as well?

[Brixtonbulldog]

Grow up and stop comparing everyone to Hitler for political purposes.

Go read a book.

So when decker does it it's ok but when I do it's immature..

Shut up moron.