240 called it

[Arnold jr]

I agree. Guns all well and good but [not referring to Dan-o, just general] amuses me when people say/act like it's uncivilised not to have them.

I am never sure why having less violence, being safer and a far lower murder rate is inferior to most folks having guns and having a sky high murder rate.

I'm not sure if this has been posted here before or not. But when it comes to gun control one of the best most recent examples of what happens when you implement this is to look at the UK.

In the UK they made it illegal to own or posses any type of firearm. What happened? The crime rate went up more than 100%, the murder rate went up but I can't recall how much.

I'm too lazy right now to look up actual statistics, lol! Kind of tired. I'll look it up later.

Point being, absolute gun control, i.e. making them 100% illegal is just plain and simple bad medicine. Sure, there have to be regualtions and rules in place for a proper functioning society...no man has the need for a tank or a rocket launcher, but very resposible man has the right to defend himself and his family. Oldest arguement in the book against gun control, "when you take guns away from law abiding citizens, the only ones left with guns are the crooks." Does anyone actually think if the U.S. implements gun control that the criminals will turn in their guns?

[Dan-O]

Dan-o

your replies are the usual responses from the redneck gun toters and dont reflect what several other countries have experienced.

sure, people will get their hands on guns...but its darn hard to, and the effect strict control has is extremely marked. In the countries that have banned them or made them very difficult to get and maintain their is almost zero incidence of gun related murder and zero incidence of mass shootings.

Your Ben Franklin quote is no longer valid- its an old, outdated concept that no longer applies in the context it was delivered.

let me pose this to you- if your mom, or your kid got shot by some other kid, or accidently by some stranger, or even whilst being robbed- is it the perp to blame?...i can guess your response.

if you like l;iving in a country that totes guns, thats great. you stay there. Having an opinion on guns and wanting a society where you can walk the streets without fear of being shot does not make me a namby pamby. or an idiot.

maybe one day your family will become a victim of gun crime.

I'm not a redneck and don't even own a gun.  So if I'm one of those people whom CQ says think it's "uncivilised" not to have a gun then I'd have to include myself in the uncivilised category.  But just taking away guns from honest law-abiding citizens won't accomplish anything except giving criminals that much more of an advantage.

Someday someone in my family may indeed be affected by a gun crime.  It hasn't happened yet (knock wood) but ya know, there's always the possibility.  And yes, if someone shoots someone else with a gun, I do blame the shooter for the shooting that has transpired.  Call me crazy but that's how I see it.

And again, it may just be a trite saying printed on a bumper sticker but it's true--"outlaw guns, and only outlaws will have guns."  Crooks and bad buys are not going to turn in or dispose of their guns if they're illegalized.

As far as wanting a society where you can walk the streets without fear of getting shot--who doesn't want that?  But the reality is--there is always going to be that criminal element, I don't care where you live in the world--so you might as well deal with it and be prepared to protect yourself instead of just wishing for a utopian world where crime doesn't exist.

[CQ]

I'm not sure if this has been posted here before or not. But when it comes to gun control one of the best most recent examples of what happens when you implement this is to look at the UK.

In the UK they made it illegal to own or posses any type of firearm. What happened? The crime rate went up more than 100%, the murder rate went up but I can't recall how much.

I'm too lazy right now to look up actual statistics, lol! Kind of tired. I'll look it up later.

Point being, absolute gun control, i.e. making them 100% illegal is just plain and simple bad medicine. Sure, there have to be regualtions and rules in place for a proper functioning society...no man has the need for a tank or a rocket launcher, but very resposible man has the right to defend himself and his family. Oldest arguement in the book against gun control, "when you take guns away from law abiding citizens, the only ones left with guns are the crooks." Does anyone actually think if the U.S. implements gun control that the criminals will turn in their guns?

I agree with yours and Dan-o's post.

I am really more referring to people who tell me my island is uncivilised not to have guns. I respect the US viewpoint and situations but they don't apply here. Guns are illegal, we have exactly 2 ways in - 1 airport and 1 dock therefore it's easy to control entry something that impossible in large nations. They've been illegal since like horse and carriage days so none left around. As there are literally no guns [not even police] murdering someone takes some real effort and blood spewage as you have to like knife someone to death. This does translate into a very, very low murder rate a mere fraction of other places. We are in a unique position to be able to do that, most could not. Neighbouring islands with guns have some of the highest rates in the world. Vast disparity.

It works for us, same way the gun culture works for Americans. I just don't see why people can't see others sides and respect that is all.

[Nordic Beast]

I'm not a redneck and don't even own a gun.  So if I'm one of those people whom CQ says think it's "uncivilised" not to have a gun then I'd have to include myself in the uncivilised category.  But just taking away guns from honest law-abiding citizens won't accomplish anything except giving criminals that much more of an advantage.

Someday someone in my family may indeed be affected by a gun crime.  It hasn't happened yet (knock wood) but ya know, there's always the possibility.  And yes, if someone shoots someone else with a gun, I do blame the shooter for the shooting that has transpired.  Call me crazy but that's how I see it.

And again, it may just be a trite saying printed on a bumper sticker but it's true--"outlaw guns, and only outlaws will have guns."  Crooks and bad buys are not going to turn in or dispose of their guns if they're illegalized.

As far as wanting a society where you can walk the streets without fear of getting shot--who doesn't want that?  But the reality is--there is always going to be that criminal element, I don't care where you live in the world--so you might as well deal with it and be prepared to protect yourself instead of just wishing for a utopian world where crime doesn't exist.

good post

our founding fathers knew that outlawing firearms would only harm innocent civilians, the "right to bear arms" must be protected!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am a responsible gun owner with a permit to carry a concealed weapon and a pistol----I made sure I got my permit before god knows what direction this country goes in trying to protect us from everything under the sun, what does it matter if you are safe but caged in a padded white room with no freedom??

America was built upon idea of freedom and to preserve that freedom civilians must be allowed to possess firearms.

[disco_stu]

arnold and dan-o you are wrong.

its a comforting feeling to own a gun, but that has to be balanced with the chance that you'll be subject to gun crime.

the many countries it is illegal to poses a firearm- even bb guns in fact- and even replicas.

those countries have many times less murder and violent/accidental death toll than those that allow it.

criminals will be criminals- with or without guns. if they have guns, the chances of someone really getting hurt rises 10 fold. If the victim has a gun, the chances rise further.

its a false security that results in a higher death toll.

none of you guys mentioned the massacres that have occurred. when its that easy to get hold of weapons, these things happen.

its just that the US is so used to this that its scary to think of it being any different. if its so important then why not just allow tasers and outlaw guns?

with tight gun control it makes it much easier for the law to identify the law breakers and control imports- it also makes their job easier as for the most part its only law enforcement that has the weapons.

all of the other responses to my comments have been speculation without fact.

heres the facts, guns kill.

a criminal will be a criminal- with a gun theres a chance he'll murder.

a victim with a gun will attempt to defend themselves- the result could be murder rather than robbery.

remove guns, and violent crime still occurs- knives and so on. not much you can do about that.

of all the massacres recently, none were committed by hardened criminals- just people with some screws loose who could easily obtain guns.

easy gun access has resulted in the assassination of many great leaders.

innocent people get killed by drive by shootings every day.


and so on.



guns have become a security blanket for americans. places that have made weapons illegal have shown massive reduction in murder, massacre and accidental death.

having a gun does not make you safe. it makes the perp think twice, sure, but criminals will be criminals, and adding a gun, or guns to the mix increased the chance of death. remove all guns and the outcome is likely just crime.

what do you want?- to be robbed and survive- or be killed or kill.?

ok its complex, but IMO guns make arguments explosive, and weirdos dangerous.

[24KT]

Unfortunately, ...the genie is out of the bottle.

IMO, the true purpose for having a gun is NOT to protect yourself from common criminals,
...but in order to preserve your liberty, and in defense of your country. Unfortunately, criminals will always have access to guns. I don't see the point in cutting off your nose to spite your face. You might be able to shut down the common criminal and get rid of violent & accidental gun deaths by getting rid of guns, but you leave yourself open to the loss of your liberty, and the inability to defend your nation and your freedoms.... if you get my drift.

After what I've seen transpire in the last 8 yrs, ...I say thank goodness for the 2nd amendment.

Now let's get some education in there to counter the glorification of the gun.

[Slapper]

Give the man his props. 

With the exception of saying that Hillary would be the #2, his predictions were money.

A year ago, I said that Obama would not win because of his name.  I was wrong.  Very wrong.

God bless the USA. 

I gotta say I also predicted Obama losing the election because he was black. I was wrong. This is why I love this country. I think we're headed in a VERY, VERY nice direction.

[Soul Crusher]

Getbig----

Every time you've debated a topic with a thick-headed neocon, there have been dozens of people reading it.

Every time you have proven Bush or mccain in a lie, there have been dozens of people reading it.

The internet led to the demise of Rovian tactics.  message boards ended that kind of fearmongering.


Every time you pointed out a contradictory statement by mccain.
Every time you pointed out the hypocracy and lies of Iraq.
Every time you questioned events that were orchestrated.

You spoke to dozens who then spoke to dozens of their friends.  You changed history.  We all did it.  You know who you are.  You didn't just accept what FOX or CNN fed you - you looked at alternative sources of info and you found your own truth, and you debated it with your peers.

We changed history.  Tell your fcking grandkids one day.  You were a part of the web revolution.  You inserted transparency into the political spectrum.  Obama will be squeaky clean from minute 1 because he HAS to be.

What is this "we" business? ? ? ? ?     I thought you didnt vote for him.   

[LurkerNoMore]

3 year old thread bump = EPIC meltdown in progress.

[Soul Crusher]

I gotta say I also predicted Obama losing the election because he was black. I was wrong. This is why I love this country. I think we're headed in a VERY, VERY nice direction.

The majority of the country disagrees with you now. 

[Shockwave]

Getbig----

Every time you've debated a topic with a thick-headed neocon, there have been dozens of people reading it.

Every time you have proven Bush or mccain in a lie, there have been dozens of people reading it.

The internet led to the demise of Rovian tactics.  message boards ended that kind of fearmongering.


Every time you pointed out a contradictory statement by mccain.
Every time you pointed out the hypocracy and lies of Iraq.
Every time you questioned events that were orchestrated.

You spoke to dozens who then spoke to dozens of their friends.  You changed history.  We all did it.  You know who you are.  You didn't just accept what FOX or CNN fed you - you looked at alternative sources of info and you found your own truth, and you debated it with your peers.

We changed history.  Tell your fcking grandkids one day.  You were a part of the web revolution.  You inserted transparency into the political spectrum.  Obama will be squeaky clean from minute 1 because he HAS to be.

Wow 240... epic fucking fail on your part.

[Shockwave]

Very naive voters....you voted for radical socialism, Obama made no bones about it. He was elected because of 1. The media (I said this long ago).

2. He baught the election by way of lieing about not taking public contributions.

And 3......because he's black. (1/2 black)

Not one person can convince me it was because of his policy ideas, especially since he's changed at least 3 times on every issue thats been brought up.

Hindsight is 20/20, and it looks like Coach is the one who needs to be given his props for calling it, lol.

[Soul Crusher]

This is why 240 gets called names.   He simply can't tell the damn truth.   If he just admitted he loves obama - fine!   

[Hugo Chavez]

This is why 240 gets called names.   He simply can't tell the damn truth.   If he just admitted he loves obama - fine!   

you're not exactly the most popular person around here either buddy.

[LurkerNoMore]

you're not exactly the most popular person around here either buddy.

For the exact same reason.  He can't tell the truth about anything either.

[Soul Crusher]

you're not exactly the most popular person around here either buddy.

I don't care, look at those who hate me most - communists, socialists, stalkers, leftist freaks, guilt ridden white dorks, racist blacks, economically deranged morons, etc.    

[Soul Crusher]

For the exact same reason.  He can't tell the truth about anything either.

What have i not told the truth about? 

[LurkerNoMore]

What have i not told the truth about? 

Half of what comes out of your delusional mouth isn't the truth. 

Like straw always says, you just say something and pretend it already happened and everyone just blindly accepts it.

Delusional little shut in.

[Soul Crusher]

Half of what comes out of your delusional mouth isn't the truth. 

Like straw always says, you just say something and pretend it already happened and everyone just blindly accepts it.

Delusional little shut in.

Specifics please or STFU.   

[blacken700]

I don't care, look at those who hate me most - communists, socialists, stalkers, leftist freaks, guilt ridden white dorks, racist blacks, economically deranged morons, etc.    

i still like you

[Soul Crusher]

i still like you

I hate your guts and still want to see you tossed into pre-chummed shark infested waters.    

[Dos Equis]

 

[LurkerNoMore]

Specifics please or STFU.   

Page 1-1294839 of this forum.

And you KNOW you are full of shit.  Just like you won't stand by your stupid ass comments that you make over and over and parade them around as the gospel fact.  Called upon to stand besides them with a wager you run away and hide.  Chicken shit.

[Soul Crusher]

   whatever.   Give me some specifics. 

[LurkerNoMore]

I just did you chicken shit.