Proposition 8 passes

[drkaje]

"Speak on this"

[Fury]

"Speak on this"

Well, well, well, like I said to Hugo in one of his meltdowns weeks ago, the fact that prop 8 was on the verge of passing meant that scumbag Repubs AND Dems were voting for it. Looks like I was right, eh Hugo? 

[Straw Man]

Can't opponents of Prop 8 just do another ballot initiative in two years to rescind this and then we'll just keep playing this silly game every election.

Social conservatives need this kind of shit to get them motivated.  Other than gay and abortion they really don't give a shit about anything else

[drkaje]

Can't opponents of Prop 8 just do another ballot initiative in two years to rescind this and then we'll just keep playing this silly game every election.

Social conservatives need this kind of shit to get them motivated.  Other than gay and abortion they really don't give a shit about anything else

That's the fvcking problem!! We need some real conservatives or at the very least make the party more inclusive again by not letting two issues be a litmus test. The same 'conservatives' begging for salvation destroyed McCain for not being strong enough on Roe Vs Wade back in the day.

[timfogarty]

latimes.com has some interesting graphics at

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-2008election-california-results,0,1293859.htmlstory

click on Margin of Victory tab and look at the propositions.  compare the two evangelical props:  4 and 8

the difference is Los Angeles county and to a smaller extent Oakland county.   my guess is it was the black vote that did us in

[drkaje]

Blacks tend to be very conservative on abortion and culturally consider homosexuality a weakness.

[timfogarty]

Blacks tend to be very conservative on abortion and culturally consider homosexuality a weakness.

my observation was that inner city blacks voted against 4 (meaning they support abortion rights), but for 8 (they can be homophobic).

[drkaje]

my observation was that inner city blacks voted against 4 (meaning they support abortion rights), but for 8 (they can be homophobic).

Can be?!?!

Many inner city blacks perceive making babies as a right, LOL! You won't see any real shift in that perception until welfare reform, IMO. Until then, you're always going to have some lazy ass arguing that income is being used to discriminate against the right of poor blacks to have children. I haven't studied any national stats but in this area most of the abortions are performed on rural whites.

[MCWAY]

latimes.com has some interesting graphics at

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-2008election-california-results,0,1293859.htmlstory

click on Margin of Victory tab and look at the propositions.  compare the two evangelical props:  4 and 8

the difference is Los Angeles county and to a smaller extent Oakland county.   my guess is it was the black vote that did us in

You are correct, Sir, according to BaptistPress news. 70% of black voters in California voted for Prop. 8 (71% voted for Amendment 2, in my home state of Florida).

[MCWAY]

Can't opponents of Prop 8 just do another ballot initiative in two years to rescind this and then we'll just keep playing this silly game every election.

They can. The question is whether or not they actually will. A better question, perhaps, would be why wait until your opponent put an amendment on the ballot, as it the case, EVERY TIME this issue comes up?

Social conservatives need this kind of shit to get them motivated.  Other than gay and abortion they really don't give a shit about anything else

Incorrect on two fronts. One, social conseratives care about a number of issues, besides those two. The reason why these issues get so much press is because liberals keep using the courts to impose such on the electorate, without giving them a voice on the matter

Two, Why do some people keep insisting that this marriage amendment this is just a conservative/GOP thing? It clearly is NOT!!! 35% of those who approve Prop. 8 (in California) and 47% of those who approved Amendment 2 (in Florida) were DEMOCRATS!!

[shootfighter1]

I have no problem with this.  Gays have recognized civil unions and that gives them similar rights under the law as married couples.

[timfogarty]

Incorrect on two fronts. One, social conseratives care about a number of issues, besides those two. The reason why these issues get so much press is because liberals keep using the courts to impose such on the electorate, without giving them a voice on the matter

keep using the courts?   Roe was decided in 1973.   and that is the purpose of the Supreme Court, to interpret the constitution.   Interracial marriages would still be legal in a few states if it wasn't for the Supreme Court.  There would still be apartheid ("separate but equal") in a few states if it wasn't for the Supreme Court.

Two, Why do some people keep insisting that this marriage amendment this is just a conservative/GOP thing? It clearly is NOT!!! 35% of those who approve Prop. 8 (in California) and 47% of those who approved Amendment 2 (in Florida) were DEMOCRATS!!

its a conservative thing.  there are Democrats who are social conservative, just like there are Republicans who are socially liberal or libertarian

[MCWAY]

keep using the courts?   Roe was decided in 1973.   and that is the purpose of the Supreme Court, to interpret the constitution.   Interracial marriages would still be legal in a few states if it wasn't for the Supreme Court.  There would still be apartheid ("separate but equal") in a few states if it wasn't for the Supreme Court.

its a conservative thing.  there are Democrats who are social conservative, just like there are Republicans who are socially liberal or libertarian

That was the point. Social conservatives don’t just care about abortion and gay “marriage”; nor are they limited to the Republican party. Otherwise, these amendments would not be passing (on average) by such lopsided numbers.

[Dos Equis]

keep using the courts?   Roe was decided in 1973.   and that is the purpose of the Supreme Court, to interpret the constitution.   Interracial marriages would still be legal in a few states if it wasn't for the Supreme Court.  There would still be apartheid ("separate but equal") in a few states if it wasn't for the Supreme Court.

its a conservative thing.  there are Democrats who are social conservative, just like there are Republicans who are socially liberal or libertarian

It really isn't just a conservative thing.  For example, I live in arguably the most liberal state in the country.  It is a one party state.  All four of our U.S. reps/senators are liberal Democrats.  There are about 4 or 5 Republican senators out of 25 in the state senate.  There is a veto proof majority in the state house.  It has been this way for over 40 years here.  Obama just won 75 percent of the vote.  (I actually thought it would be higher).  I don't think we have ever voted for a Republican candidate for president (at least not that I can recall).  We've had one Republican governor in the past 40+plus years (the current governor) and many consider her a social liberal. 

In spite of that, when the issue was placed in front of the voters, 70 percent of the voters rejected homosexual marriage.  The public simply doesn’t want it.  I do think that will change one day, but that day isn’t here yet.   

[timfogarty]

The public simply doesn’t want it.  I do think that will change one day, but that day isn’t here yet.   

Constitutional guarantees should trump democratic majorities.

[Dos Equis]

Constitutional guarantees should trump democratic majorities.

Except lifestyle choices aren't in the same category as race, religion, and national origin under the U.S. Constitution. 

Also, everything is subject to democratic majorities.  Even constitutions can be changed by democratic vote, which is what happened yesterday in three states.

[drkaje]

Constitutional guarantees should trump democratic majorities.

Then what's the point to having a democracy?

Thank you in advance for not insulting my intelligence and comparing blacks to gays.

I actually hoped it passed just to be spared from hearing about it ever again.  

[Benny B]

Thank God they shut down the idea of homo marriage in California.

[timfogarty]

Then what's the point to having a democracy?

we are a republic.  the common folk don't vote on every item.  we elect people to represent our collective best interest.   the constitution is the law of the land.

Thank you in advance for not insulting my intelligence and comparing blacks to gays.

(from Ellen's Halloween show)

I actually hoped it passed just to be spared from hearing about it ever again.  

like with miscegenation laws, it may take a generation to become settled, but same sex marriages will always be around.  there are millions of same sex couples in the US, there are millions of children of same sex couples.  No proposition will ever change that.

[drkaje]

we are a republic.  the common folk don't vote on every item.  we elect people to represent our collective best interest.

(from Ellen's Halloween show)

like with miscegenation laws, it may take a generation to become settled, but same sex marriages will always be around.  there are millions of same sex couples in the US, there are millions of children of same sex couples.  No proposition will ever change that.

You're kidding, right?! People are supposed to follow a comedienne for advice? You're funnier than she is, LOL! Wanda Sykes is funny as shit but she's an entertainer. Also, being black doesn't mean she speaks for me.

People don't want it yet.

I only hoped it passed to save me from hearing one more person make the same stupid analogies about blacks, interracial marriage, Star Trek, etc... I'm not gay or married and don't give a crap. I'm just tired of hearing about it and sick of people assuming that any disagreement on the topic is a sign of intolerance.

The only actual interesting (to me) aspect of this entire thing is if de-solemnizing those marriages would be denying equal protection should the supreme court hear the case. Questions like: should the state be able to impose divorce on someone? Is the state able to essentially re-allocate marital assets? and other stuff like that.

As far as someone being gay goes, I could care less and don't even get why someone who is gay would want me to know. I don't spend time worrying about what anyone does in the privacy of their own home.

I'm also tired of people getting all twisted when we say "that's so gay", "you're gay", "you're a homo", etc... It's a word and no one owns it or can restrict it to one context for political purposes.

[timfogarty]

As far as someone being gay goes, I could care less and don't even get why someone who is gay would want me to know. I don't spend time worrying about what anyone does in the privacy of their own home.

here is the thing:  to you gay is just gay sex.  it has nothing to do with relationships and falling in love. 

if you're married, do you have a picture of your spouse on your desk at work?  do you take her to company events?  do you talk about her to coworkers?  is she on your health plan at work?    we already know she gets your social security benefits if you were to die, and gets your property without having to pay estate tax or have the property tax reassessed. (that may be a california thing)

I'm also tired of people getting all twisted when we say "that's so gay", "you're gay", "you're a homo", etc... It's a word and no one owns it or can restrict it to one context for political purposes.

and what is your gut reaction when non-blacks use the N word?

[Al Doggity]

Drkaje pulled his last post from an Andrew "Dice " Clay routine from the early 90s.

[timfogarty]

.

[drkaje]

here is the thing:  to you gay is just gay sex.  it has nothing to do with relationships and falling in love. 

if you're married, do you have a picture of your spouse on your desk at work?  do you take her to company events?  do you talk about her to coworkers?  is she on your health plan at work?    we already know she gets your social security benefits if you were to die, and gets your property without having to pay estate tax or have the property tax reassessed. (that may be a california thing)

and what is your gut reaction when non-blacks use the N word?

I don't have pics of GF anywhere, including the cell phone. I don't want to hear crap about anyone's relationship because most people are boring and keep telling you stupid shit. I'm more interested in group dynamics. When I die, the kids get everything except $50K.

I wish more people would use the dreaded N-word and take power away from it. If you ever wanna see something funny... drop an N-Bomb on a poor white guy, LOL! I've come to accept and define the N-word as an ignorant person, and since ignorance recognizes no racial boundaries why should the word do so? It has many pronunciations, contexts and uses.. why should only one race own such a useful word?

As far as which word gets used more? I don't know, LOL! A few days ago I saw some guy with dogs in the car and called him a gay homosexual but probably used the N-word a few dozen times since then. 

Drkaje pulled his last post from an Andrew "Dice " Clay routine from the early 90s.

I remember him but not any particular lines.

[Benny B]

Makes me proud.